A wider front beam

I have had problems with my front wheel bearings on the D.

Now for the second time I think I have had to replace the outter bearings . Im running 20mm spacers on the front wheels to get my wheels to set in the wheel wells corectly. It looks like the only way, I will ever shoot this problem is to build a 3 inch wider beam. and lose the spacers.

I have a new spare beam I got way back during the build,

BUT?

I can't find the longer flat springs. Anyone know of a supplier that carries 3 inch longer flat springg for the beam?

Barry,
I've posted on this topic before and never found any takers, we may be the first! I've been researching a wider front beam for a few months now. I have 2.125 spacers on my front wheels (flared body) and 1.25 spacers on the rear (irs). Have not had any bearing problems in 13,000 km, and I corner pretty hard all the time. Am looking for a front beam about 4 1/2 inches wider than stock. I have found two possible solutions from local fabricators. Haven't made up my mind yet. Neither has suggested that longer torsion bars are available, I suspect they are not. Here is what I was offered:

1) Take two complete beam assemblies, cut off slightly more than half of each assembly. Weld the two long halves, complete with adjusters,together. You will now have four adjusters on the two beams and have two separate sets of shortened torsion bars inside each tube. Suspension tuning, could be interesting, trying to get all these balanced for ride height and spring rates.

2) Convert to through rods and coil over springs. This vendor makes custom beams for many local dune buggies, any width you want, not just the standard +6 inches offered in catalogs. The "shock towers" are custom made and really strong to carry the full vehicle weight. He also makes custom anti-sway bars of any length to match. That would be a necessity. I find this solution very intriguing. His Baja buggies take a hell of a beating in desert races, so his stuff seems to be engineered pretty good. He makes street buggys also, so he knows "lowered front end".

In any case, a wider beam would reduce the "scrub radius" on my car from over 5 inches down to the normal 1 inch or less. Lot's easier steering and less twitchy on bumps. Gonna do this this year, probably this fall. Keep us posted on your progress if you get there first.

It may be a automatic . But I still push it in the curves untill their gone. FUN? ? It still has plenty of pep. for a stock 1600. a very strong little engine.

Sorry about the misclick and the double post I found Sway a way , Road warrior. And i hope Chiroco may offer something . I'll call them tommow at lunch time est. Rancho may also have someting. But I have not confirmed anything yeat.

i also conciderd heating the control arms and just bend them out 1&1/2
but thats not a good idea.

VeeDub Unlimetied, Can get the longer flat springs for our beams . The beam parts guy wasn't there so i will have to call back the first of the week 1-714-848-8868

Chirco wanted to sell me 4 adjusters and split the springs down the middle . Doable But , What if the centers work lose? plus it will make it harder to level the front end.

Barry, please explain your math to me. You say you have 20 mm spacers - I presume one per side - yet you want a 3 inch wider beam? 2 x 20mm = 40mm wider. 3" wider beam x 25.4 = 76.2 mm wider.
Also, what are your plans for a anti-sway bar and new steering arms to go with a wider beam?

My spacer thickness was a aproxamation, sorry if i confused you. I had 36 mm spacers from CSP on to begin with, and they looked right, but the under stear was auful, I converted a old pair 5 lug adapters of about 1 to 1+1/2 or Im guessing again about 30 mm thichness to reduce it. and got the srearing to feel neutral.

I am going to convert a stock super beetle sway bar into something more like porsche used on the 912 . It will require little rework and will look neat enough

If its to strong ,I can swipe a gringer down its lenth several times, to tune it weaker.

But your right, 76 mm would be close to what I need to shoot for . I know the present spacers fall short of that,

In any case the flat stock 6" longer springs are on their way. Veedub did have them in stock.

Barry, I assume you will have one adjuster in each of your new longer beams? So you are going to cut your new 6 inch longer torsion leaves to fit your beam length? I like that idea better than converting to through bars and coil-overs! Won't your spring rate be different with longer torsion leaves? I think torsion is a function of spring length. Seems as though spring rate would be softer, and therefore change both the ride quality and the ride height? Wait - you can tune one beam "against" the other and recover spring rate using the beam adjusters - is that it? Keep me posted, I'm gunna do this next fall!

Looks like I have some more experementing to do. The Idea of puting 4 adjusters 2 on each side of center to keep the length correct is starting to make sence. That may be the best thing to do.

I did some more measuring of the super beetle sway bar and it really is looking very good.

I will bolt it to the front bumper brackets with the super beetles brackets and rubbers. and use the standard beetle clamps and rubbers on the ball arms. it will require some heating and bending but will look neat, and should work very well.

Barry - I still think your idea of longer torsion leaves and one adjuster at center of each beam is doable. Each side of the torsion leaf will only be about 15% longer than original. So you install your trailing arms rotated a little farther than normal. I think that might work. So each torsion leaf is a little longer, and it is twisted a little more to carry the weight. You can still rotate the adjuster to vary the total spring force at the trailing arms. Trying to figure how to install the adjuster in a correct rotation to give neded travel might be the big hurdle. Seems like this might be easier than playing with 4 adjusters? Keep going Barry - my money isn't being spent until this fall - after you figure out how this whole thing works! Can you believe it - they have been making flared bodies for near 50 years, and nobody has done this yet - wonder if that maans something? If we don't know we can't do this - we can do this!

I also will not be using all the springs. I installed the adjusters in the stock position before n the first beam. I added and remove a spring untill I got the right feel. Then adjust the height. This is how I did it the first time and the ride is superb very smooth, with six small flat springs removed in each tube.

If the 15% is correct I can just add one more spring back in each tube.

I also cut short fillers for the center and the control arms a little electrical tape holds everything in place until I tighened the allen bolts. you have to tape up one end and the same end of the center then slide it all in past center to get the other end.

So Thanks David I think you helped me solve some probems. And i told you how I did my first one.

Just checked the formula for Torsion in Roark's "Formulas for Stress and Strain". 624 pages guaranteed to put you to sleep. A general formula for torsional displacement on page 287 is:
Angular Displacement = (2 x Torque x length) / (3.14 x r to the 4th power x G the material modulus).
This is an approximation (assumes a round torsion spring, r = radius, not a series of torsion leaves bundled together), but you can see that the angular displacement is linear with length. So 15% longer torsion leaves will give roughly 15% more angular displacement for the same twisting force (vehicle front end weight).

Have I impressed anybody? It's been 25 years since my last stress report was published. Back then, we did all arithmatic manually on a slide rule - no computers, no caculators. The nuclear plants are still in operation, so I guess I got it close to being right!

Waiting for pictures Barry.

Bad NEWS !

The springs came and they are the short half set type ,that you have to use 4 adjusters on. So thats settles that .

I was wondering about that too, Barry. I checked the Chirco website a few days ago, and they state the springs are "pre-cut to 18 3/16 inches". Guess we don't know something about their touted 6 inch wider "Warrior Beam". RATS, I was really attracted to that solution. Oh well, my local shop wanted to do a 4 adjuster beam for me anyhow. Barry, I really appreciate YOU sorting all this out for me. Keep the faith and preservere!

I was talking with a freind at today about this and he is going to talk to a rail buggy builder . He claims the springs they use are long heavy duty springs six inches over stock.

I asked him to make it quick , Because I may send these back. If the others are avalible and if they are heavier duty. that would also compensate for the longer beam. and solve both problems.



UPDATE 5 minutes after I post this I get a email form Kenny that was nice and quick.!!!!

CB-P offers the longer springs But they are pricey $399. 15% and 20% stiffer than stock.

So what would you do?. Vee Dubs were $137.with 4 adjusters. Adjusters are $14.99 each. The springs $67.00

The lady at CB-P said they can't get them. My freind has a What For!! comming.

Five more calls,, and five more strike outs.

Looks as if I only have one alternative. I have taken some measurements it will require a 1 inch spacer in the middle to space the 2 adjusters at 3 inches apart

Then cut the beam right in the middle I may have to trim it more to make it space out right. So I will measure it again and again But so far 2 inches from the center looks right. The spacers are 2 inches wide allowing 1 inch from each comes out right. I will trim both sides 1 inch back from center.

The damper mount must be moved inward 3 inches and then grind off the 2 bolt mounts and move them inward 1x1/2 each.


Im now concidering going ahead with rabbit rack. $139.oo new from Parts Place Inc.

UPDATE The wider beam is almost ready to weld up.I only went 3 inches wider..

Got pictures? I love engineering projekts!

Hello Cory, Yes I do But the the website did a timeout when I tried to load the first one,,, Weard????

Barry,
I'm still keeping up with your beam mods. I am in a cabin in the Oregon woods at the end of a dirt road, and am therefore speedsterless this summer. I'm still tracking your progress on the computer at the local library. Keep the posts coming, I am going to make this same mod this fall, but "plus 4 1/2 inches wider".
If it's any consolation, a few dune buggy shops I talked to have also indicated that those longer springs (if they really are still available ) are quite stiff, meant for off-road duty under rather harsh conditions. Those dune buggies typically have 6 - 8 inches of suspension travel and rather heavy front wheels and tires. I'm beginning to think this might not work even if the springs are somehow avaliable. All depends on the spring specs.
Keep the faith!

I already have it painted . all beams that get adjuster start by cutting out 2 inches in the center of both tubes, their by removing the spring mounts.

The adjusters are 2 inches wide . To get a 4 and 1/2 wider beam you will add a 2 and 1/2 inch pipe spool in the middle .

I deep V ground all the connections and filled the V's up with weld . Then grind them flat. They were 3/8 wide V's ground sharp to the inner pipe lips. It should be plenty strong.


It's on hold for now while, I have to fix something else. I hit a deer right at dust coming home from work Saterday evening inh my beetle.

Scrap one hood and fender The nose is remarkably undamged. even the bumper is ok.

It ran out in front of a Semi, He hit it and flun it right at me. I first though it was gona hit my windshield. Oh my gosh?? it hit and rolled the the fender into the front wheel,causing the wheel to bellow out a blue cloud of tire smoke.

Its a mess

I'm gonna suppose the deer is in even worse condition?

By the way, I bought a new issue of "Hot VWs . . ." today, and in there is an ad for one piece springs for a 6 inch wider axle made by Latest Rage. They were listed as heavy duty, or stiffened, or something like that. So yeah, it does look like one piece springs are available, but are going to be too stiff for speedster use.

Ain't the Internet great for grabbing info! Pour it on!

Its to late for me now mine is done, but not installed .

Post me a link I'd like to see them

I would not worry so much about the stiffness of the springs. Just leave more out, as needed and make more filler strips for the set screw locks. It should work just fine.

David . I tinkered with my beam and rack for a few minues today, while my bother had his rabbit here. I have came up with a bracket design that welds 2 bracket on to the upper beam tube and can just clear the frame head.

They will allow me to mount the rack about 2 inches behind the beam. and be as low to the tunnel hump as possible, clearing only by 1/4 of a inch.

I decided after talking with my brother, to keep it as far forward as possible and make the tie rod stay inline with the upper ball arms. We both agreed that would minimize bump steer.

I also noticed that the factory rack is mounted in rubber ,and does not have a damper shock.

I have also made card board patterns. for the brackets that will be 1-1/2x 3/8 plate stock.

A question for you guys that have front beams apart. My Speedster has an after market (don't know manufacturer), adjustable beam. The bumper brackets that are "u" bolted to my beams obscure the grease fittings in each beam. The existing fittings face down & forward at about 45 degrees. Rather than have to remove the bumper brackets every time I want to grease the beams, I'd prefer to add new grease fittings. Should there be any problem with arbitrarily drilling and tapping new fittings a couple inches inboard from the existing fittings?

brian,
yeah, there are bushings and arms in there. If you drill too deep you'll find them.
I had the same problem. I just moved the U bolts over a little to gain access to the grease fittings.

Greg

I had to weld up the holes on my first one and redrill and retap new holes . Slip a peace of 1/8 pipe over the drill bit, cut to a length that allows 1/4 inch of the bit to petrude out.

Thanks for reminding me, I need to recheck that on this one also.. And now is the perfect time.

Ditto of moving the bumper brackets. I only squeezed them less than 1/8 inch and everything clears fine. I suppose every builder has their own idea of where to mount the zerk fittings, so there is no universal answer here.

p.s. trivia - my wife's PT Cruiser requires REMOVAL of both front wheels in order to grease the lower ball joints! I'm gunna invest in some 45 or 90 degree zerk fittings, but what do you bet that they will line up pointing in some direction that the grease gun still cannot access?

David . I heard that before about the PT -Cruzer. I had a friend try 90 zurks and they rubbed the rims.. So make sure you get the smallest ones you can find.

I checked mine and its defenatly not a problem. Plenty of room..

I also rechecked the spindle to spindle lengh from side to side .

Stock is 46 from tie rod to tie rod.

The new rack is 48 with the tie rods screwed in tight.. Im very pleased with that.

But I will have ream the tie rod holes on the spindles a schose.. These are bigger.

Barry,
Have you given any thought to "flipping" the tie rods, to minimize the bump steer action of a lowered beam? You have to drill out the tie rod hole in the spindle, then install a special bushing, then re-install the tie rod on the top (I think) of the steering spindle. This brings the tie rods closer to horizontal and improves the geometry. Bushings are needed on ball joint spindles because the tie rod connection is tapered - I am told. Aany way, now is the time!

You guessed it. I already have a ream tool to do it, and because I have small ends on the old spindles and much bigger ends on the new rack, it will not need the bushings. they are concideralbly larger. and the tapered ream tool is more than large enough. I do intend to make a ream stop so I don't get to deep.

I finally got to see what a factory supebeetle rack looks like. . ITS a weard looking thing!!!

Its inside out. (Realy!!!!) both the tie rods connect very near the center of it , then the right and left boots next with the rack mechanizium on one end and a sleeve on the other end . Both ends are bolted to supports. only the center section moves. Very different!!!! it basicly follows the lower control arm geometry and matches up with their pivot points.

I have made inquiries trying to find a new or used assembly for my super beetle with no luck at all.

Im now thinking? I can Maybe convert a rabbit rack? If the rack bar can be installed backwards, Id say it could be done. I KNOW CRAZY! But I can't find one!!

P. S. the Mess is fixed and back on the road. But just in epoxy primmer. I alread have had to stop once again for Deer traffic this week.

I think they have a thing for VWs This is the second time Ive been deered. I was setting still the first time waiting for them to cross the road, when a baby deer ran into the side of the car. Scrap one door!

Back to the main subject. The Rack Is on the beam.

Heres the pics of it they were in the cammera almost a week. Ive been kinda busy.


I have also found out the Vw used 2 kind of racks on the super beetle a front steer early 76 and rear steer 78 and up

Barry,
Maybe four legged animals have a fiber glass thing? I had a very near encounter with a moose in British Columbia a few years ago. I was in a fiberglass Corvette at the time. The miss was close. The moose was VERY big!

I havent seen any mooses. But the deer seem to have it in for my beetle.

I have had 2 more close calls in the last week. Im now thinking about a bush guard.

I drove my last Vechicle for 8 years and not even one incedent. same roads and routine.

This is getting crazy.

Barry - trivia -

Was reading a 1970s book in the library on "How to build a Baja Buggy." They very nicely described, with many pictures, how to install a 4 inch widened beam (though raised, not lowered). They ended up with a split beam and four adjusters - two per beam. Cut torsion leaves in half. Only addition was beam re-enforcements - upper and lower - bolted to beam and the front frame area.

Yelp! I read that article a long,long,loonnnnng time ago. Gosh it makes be feel old.

I have not done anything to he beam in a while. Im still pushing to get Mike's steering hub finished . it's kinda like walking into a wall. Its one thing then another here.

I Do want to buy my own copy of the Robert Bosch, Steering Geometry handbook. I'd highly recomend it to any club member. It can help you trouble shoot querky ride prolems.