California BAR re-registration....any experiances?

Hi, I'm looking for people who have gone to the BAR to re-register their
Speedster to get the smog exemption. I got on the list for the first
500 applicants for California and now I'm going to the referee to get the
car registered as a 57 Porsche Speedster and not the current 2001 SPC
registration. My time is set for next week Wed. Anything to look out for? Should I have any problems? The car is a Vintage Speedster.

J-P

Not sure, but please keep me/us posted as I have to do that soon too. I am also on the list of 500.

Jean,
How long ago did you apply to get on the list? Last week or last year? How far in advance did you have to sign up? How long after signing up did you get your appointment? Seems like in Callifornia, 500 spots would be grabbed up pretty quick, but I don't really know.

I applied ASAP after the new year, I think within two days. I believe all 500 were taken up in the first new years week. At the time I knew these slots would go fast so I went ahead and grabbed one. The next phase is going to the referee for the inspection. Of course this makes me nervous
even though the car falls within CAs guidlines for the reregistration.

J-P

David, I forgot to answer your question, there is no list. Each year at the beginning of the year, there is a crush of guys like you and I in line at the DMV with all our paperwork. The first 500 that don't forget anything get an exemption, everyone else....wait till next year.

I just got my license and tags for my 2005 IM Roadster. I went the SB100 route. I went down to the CA DMV on January 3rd (the first business day of 2005) first thing in the morning, armed with my registration application, statement of construction, certificate of origin, etc. and got number 103 of the 500 allotted in 2005. The 500 SB100 exemptions were all gone by midday on January 4th (essentially 1.5 days total).

My car was ready for inspection last week. I called and made a VIN inspection appointment with the CHP. On newly registered vehicles you must have a VIN inspection completed by an authorized VIN inspector (usually a CHP officer) prior to getting your CA Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee appointment.

The BAR referee will ask to see your VIN inspection paperwork, along with your registration application, your DMV registration paperwork (the docs given to you by the DMV after you paid your fees) and your DMV receipts and your SB100 Certificate of Sequence (this is the official CA SB100 exemption document sent to you by the DMV). He will ask you what you want the car registered as, you tell him a '57-'58 Porsche Speedster. This is important as under the SB100 you have the choice of registering your car for SMOG compliance as either the year and make and model it most closely represents (e.g. '57 Speedster) or the year of the engine manufacture of the engine in the car. You want it as a 50-something Porsche.

The BAR Referee will then run a smog test. The test will take about 20 minutes. After the test he will provide you with the results, affix a smog exempt sticker on your door pillar. There is no cost for the test, paperwork or the sticker. You cannot fail the test unless your car smokes badly. I was told the reason they must run the test is two fold, first the software won't let them print the exemption sticker without a completed test, second the opponents of SB100 (of which there are many in Sacramento) want to collect data on how bad the cars that are being registered under this bill are from a pollution standpoint (in CA we are called Gross Polluters). Make no mistake, there are many in the CA legislator that want to kill the SB100 program. I have read quotes from some of the Bay Area Air Resources Board who speak of public safety (from a breathable air standpoint!) when questioning the wisdom of SB100. OK, no more scary stuff.

After your BAR appointment, you may or may not be asked to get a Brake and Light Inspection. Your DMV registration paperwork (the document the DMV gives you when you got your SB100 application completed and paid your fees) will say whether you must have a brake and light inspection. If you do, you need to find a shop that does CA Brake and Light Inspections. Most auto repair shops know a shop that is relatively close that performs this test. I am told, this test costs about $100. I did not have to do it, why? I have no idea.

After all your inspections, you return to the DMV and they will issue your plates, tags and a temporary registration with the originals coming in a few weeks via regular mail.

May I ask why those of you with VW based cars are re registering your cars? Just curious. Thanks.

Mike, although vague in print, in fact, it is illegal to register a pan based Speedster as the VW donor it came from in CA. The car must by CA law be registered as a Specially Constructed Vehicle. The fact that so many pan based Speedster's, Cobra's, 32 Ford Hotrod's, etc. are registered as their donor car and not Specially Constructed Vehicle's is a subject of intense interest with the CA DMV, CA BAR, CA Air Resources Board (CARB) and many environmentally sensitive legislators.

If you have a pan based Speedster that is registered as a VW, you might want to go to the California Inspection and Maintenance Review Committee website and look up the meeting minutes of 11/23/2004. The part you should read starts on page 19 and is a presentation by a Mr. Robert Morgester, Deputy Attorney General for the State of CA.

Bill,

I am just about to do the same, I got my Cert of Reg, and VIN from CHP so the next step is BAR. Let me know where and when you go and how the experience was since we are so close, could be the same ref.

I am almost there.

Thanks
Patrick
p.s. look forward to seeing your new car.

Patrick,

I went to the BAR Referee at Skyline College. After you have the VIN inspection and you have the car ready for inspection you can call the BAR scheduling center at 800-622-7733 and request the San Bruno location (that is the Skyline College facility). The Smog Referee is in the Automotive Training Center on the campus, it is located in the Southwest most part of the facility, if you go to Parking Lot 8 and follow the signs it will take you to the Smog Referee (or just flag one of the Parking Enforcement Officers down and ask where the Automotive Department is, like I did).

The Certificate of Sequence is the key, if you have that, your DMV paperwork and your VIN inspection paperwork, you are there!

The test is very straight forward (basically with the Certificate of Sequence, you can't fail). One tip I would give you, when he goes to put your Exempt sticker on the door jam, if I were you, I would ask to be allowed to put it on. It is very sticky vinyl and he left a bunch of bubbles I had a heck of a time getting out.

Good luck Patrick, see you soon.

Bill, did the BAR ask you if your car was a turn key car or not? Is your car a turn key car? Did you have to provide any documentations on the type of engine, where it came from, ect.
Should a CAT be put on the car just in case they want to abort it from being a SPC and do the regualr smog?

J-P

J-P,

The BAR Referee is concerned with your Certificate of Sequence. If you have that, along with your proper VIN inspection and DMV paperwork, the BAR Referee will test your car and affix an Exempt sticker to your car. From that point on (unless they repeal the SB100 law) your car is Exempt.

Bill, I read the minutes from the meeting which you quoted and I don't see anything that talks about speedsters. Robert Morgester talks about fraudulant titles on cars built from scratch. I guess the issue here is the definition of a specially constructed vehicle. I'm not challengning you Bill, I just want to know the facts. Can you tell me where you found the california law concerning this?

Here's a previous thread on this.
speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=3151

BD

JP, You said your car was a Vintage? In which state are you registering? If your here in California, you should be able to register it as VW in the year of your chassis. Plain and simple! Mine is registered as a 1958 VW & Insured as VW/Porsche Kit. I am in California. Gabe

Mike, I just wrote a big post explaining everything in detail, it is very complex. When I posted it, I had timed out and it was lost, thanks a lot Theron.

Anyway, here is the short answer, CA Veh Code 580. If the car does not resemble the car from which its parts were derived in its construction, it is a Specially Constructed Vehicle.

My point on Mr. Morgester's presentation is not specific to Speedster's. The state is becoming aware of our existence for various reasons, unfortunately it seems, most of the different departments, much at the same time.

My recommendation is simple: If you live in CA and have a Replica or a Hot-Rod (at least one that does not resemble to a fairly large degree the car it was derived from), register it as a Specially Constructed Vehicle, declare its full value when you register it, get an SB100 SMOG exemption if you can and if you can't, get it SMOG compliant for the year of the engine that is in it. If you do this, you are legal, if not, well...

In all my many years, I have learned one thing about the Government. The wheels grind slowly, but eventually, they will catch up to you, if you are not 100% legal, they grind right over you.

I looked at the CVC you quoted and what you are saying makes sense. And after reading Morgasters presentation it seems that it would be a lot easier to obey the law. All the talk about jail time and stuff scared me a little bit.

Yeah it's that "I Swear Under Penalty of Perjury" thing at the bottom of every DMV form you sign that is the real gotcha.

Truth be told, guys that register their pan based cars as the model year VW their donor pan came from and declare the full value at registration time (e.g. pay their honest share of taxes and fees) are probably not running much risk. If the DMV/CHP/CARB ever decide to do an enforcement action against cars that are Specially Constructed Vehicles, that are not registered as such to aviod SMOG rules, the worst thing that will probably happen is having your car seized.

On the other hand, for guys that registered their Speedster as a pre-1975 VW (or for that matter say a 1957 Porsche) with a stated value of something like $1200? I would think committing to memory the number of a very good criminal attorney might be prudent.

Bill,

I will have to tackle the transfer of registration on my IM that is a used car. Henry has sent me the Cert of origin, current Washington State registration, but what is the Statement of Construction that you mentioned in your large post? If I understand the process you explained, I will have to wait until Jan to transfer the car to California registration from Washington State when I obtain a Certificate of Sequence at the first of the year. Then have the vin verified, and set an appt. with the BAR. After that, I would return to the DMV to complete the paperwork. Your assistance is very much appreciated. I originally was under the impression that the car was already registered as a 1959, which would have simplified thing tremendously, however it is reflecting a model year of 2005.

In the definition of a SPCNS, the car CANNOT be a vehicle that is constructed from a licensed manufacturer, cannot be purchased as new and must be built for private use by a non-licensed builder. Funny thing though, I had the SPCNS cert but on the license it asks for a referee review in late 2004. I didn't go to that so I got the cert of sequence.

Bill, what papers did you show to the referee? Did they ask you if your car was a turn key? What engine are you running? What about the gas tank vent, any problems there?

www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm

J-P

Dan,

I would be glad to tell you everything I know. Send me an email and we can set a time for a phone call. You should not have any problems.

J-P,

If you have your Certificate of Sequence, your VIN inspection from the CHP and your DMV paperwork (which you got when you did the application and got your Certificate of Sequence), you have all you need for your BAR Referee appointment. When you go to the BAR Referee, it is your choice to register your car by the year of the vehicle it most closely resembles (e.g. 1957 Porsche Speedster) or the year the engine was manufactured. If your car does not resemble any known car (like some of the home built cars I have seen), the BAR Referee is directed by law to assign a 1960 model year designation for SMOG purposes.

If I were you, I would select the first option (e.g. 1957 Porsche Speedster). At that point, he will test your car, print an SMOG Exempt sticker, affix the sticker to your door jam, give you a copy of the test that has already been sent to the CA DMV via the internet and you should be on your way.

Thanks for the input Bill.....just a little nervous about the whole thing. I'll let you know how it goes on Wed.

J-P

J-P, you will do fine. When you have that SB100 Certificate of Sequence, it's like the "Letters of Transit" in the movie Casa Blanca, cannot be rescinded!

Good Luck.

PS - You might want to look at the DMV paperwork they printed out for you the day you applied for the Certificate of Sequence, if it does not say anything about a Brake and Light inspection, you don't need one of those either.

Bill, good notes. I am lucky and do not need a brake and lamp. Just one more hurrdle out of the way.

P-

Got through the referee, piece of cake...really! Now off to the DMV with the
paperwork.

J-P

What a lot of BS to go through just for, what, a few thousand weekend cars out of millions??

And I wonder how long before the Northeast states (and other areas) start doing this as well??

Here in Alaska, if you only drive your vehicle between March 1 and Nov 1 your not required to get emissions, not matter what the year. I would imagine this includes all recreational vehicles. If someone up here tried something that stupid we're wrap them in bacon and let the bears eat them!

Pat

Pat, there is so much Pork in the Politics down here, we would not need the bacon. Too bad the Griz don't get down this far.

Well I got through the referee yesterday, got the SPCN registration with the engine used as the year for smog, 1967 VW. I went to the DMV for the new registration, got tags and a temp. registration till the permanent one comes in the mail. I also got the door jam sticker. so far so good. Let's see if Sacramento comes through with the permanent registration. Seems too easy so far.

J-P

Are any of you guys running dual carbs? If so, does the referee say anything about them?

I'm trying to find verbatum documentation of the legislation and enforcement of these laws. If anyone has direct URL's to resources that provide the text of the law or where the Air Resource's Board Minutes can be found, I would appreciate it if you would copy and paste them in this "string". For those of you who need to prepare yourself for the Board Hearings, I include the URL to an interesting article >
www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/0106scc_technobabble/ (copy and paste it into your browsers address line).

It depends on how you register the car, year/type of the engine or the body style. Orignal 356 Speedsters/coupes had dual carbs.

J-P