Cold weather starting

My car has always started quickly after two or three pumps of the gas pedal to prime it. I don't drive it when temps are under 50 degrees or so ao I haven't tried to start it when the wx was very cold 40 degrees (That's very cold in Arkansas!). Well last week I needed to use the car for some errand as my driver was in the shop so I put up the top and the side curtains so I wouldn't freeze and proceeded to crank the engine---and that's pretty much what it did---crank, and crank, and crank.

The engine is in perfect tune in every way and thank goodness the battery was strong but I had a hard time starting the engine. My carbs don't have a choke and maybe that's a reason for poor cold wx starts?

I would appreciate any cold weather starting tips anyone has as I ain't doin' it right, I don't think. Do I need to add a choke? (I have Solex P 40s from Scat.) Or are there other ways to start it I should try? Many thanks---Jack

I'd love to offer some good advice (and I do have some), but I'm still reeling from the "very cold" 40 deg comment. The shot below was taken with my cell-phone, out of my windshield last week.

I'm thinking Arkansas sounds better all the time. Merry Christmas from the People's Republic of Stanistan.

Usually (and that's using the vague definition of the word) I just use three pumps of the pedal and then hold it down to the floor. When the engine kicks or sputters I begin to feather the pedal until the revs are strong. Sounds like a lot of trouble, but it all happens within five seconds or so.

Then just hold the pedal down a bit to produce a strong/high idle for a moment and DONE. It might stall a couple of times at stop lights for the first few miles, but no biggie.

Jack-

OK, seriously now- if the engine sat for any length of time without running, the fuel in the float-bowls evaporated. If you don't have an electric fuel pump (and I don't think you do), then you rely on the engine turning over to pump any fuel up to the carbs. If the floats are empty, then you'll need to crank (and crank, and crank) quite a while to get any fuel.

The easy solution is to get an electric fuel pump, and eliminate the mechanical one on the engine. The CB (Carter) pump self-regulating pump is one of the best upgrades you can do. Wire it on it's own fuse (keyed), but there's no need to mount a relay. That way- when you turn on the key, the pump starts, fills your bowls up, and then you can just do your normal starting procedure (although it might take an extra pump or two in cold weather).

Merry Christmas.

Hey Jack.......I run dual 44IDF's, with no chokes. (normal for these carbs) After sitting a long time, I crank it twice for about 20 sec. each, then pump it while cranking a third time. When it catches, I have to play with the pedal until the engine warms enough to idle....I try to hold revs below 1500rpm, while playing around to keep oil pressure down to a reasonable level.....Drive mine regularly in 40/50 deg. weather......Spyder=NO HEAT....Hope this helps....

Jack, it's just old school technology. As it gets cold out fuel doesn't vaporize the same way so you need a richer mixture (more fuel/less air) either via a choke or pedal pumping.
Good luck.

I've found that, on those rare occassions when the temperature is near freezing in Charleston, it helps to swing a dead chicken over my head while loudly screaming "WOO, WOO, WOOO!!!!" Otherwise it may crank the battery nearly flat before it starts. You should try it. Your neighbors will love you.

Most twin carbs. don't have chokes. I have squirted a little propane down the carbs to get one to hit in cold weather. that won't flood it..

That's the way non choked engines are.

Give 3 to 4 pumps, crank 5 seconds...repeat as necessary till it starts to fire. Once it does, short pump the pedal till it's hitting on all four. I keep a battery maintainer on while it's sitting so I have full crank amps to git er going.

Does the Amps matter with the Battery Tender? Just currious if the .75 is enough? Or should I go for the 1.25.


Thanks,

Marty

http://www.pacificbattery.com/batterytender0123.html

I believe the .75 should be enough...it's best that the battery be fully charged when you hook up the Battery tender.
The Tender is a maintainer and not a charger per se. It will keep the charge where it is..although over a long period of time it would probably charge it up somewhat.

~WB

Jack,

Our spyder is a cold blooded beast, no chokes. Electric fuel pump - I let it run until I "hear" pressure (change in pitch of the fuel pump). The spyder wants a fair amount of fuel to initially fire, but the trick is to catch it on the first hit - then get the throttle to 2,000 and hold it there for a full 60 seconds. Bear in mind, this is a dry sump system so this much RPM cold might be a bad thing for your engine... I used to pretty regularly foul the plugs on my car using a standard start procedure of just getting it to hit on all the cylinders and then letting it warm on its own. A very knowledgeable Porsche guy told me to do this procedure (kick it and hold it at 2K for a full minute without moving hte car) and that would eliminate my fouled plugs - provided, obviously that the engine was sound and the plugs were the right ones...

I've been doing that for two years and he was spot on. Haven't swapped a plug since.

angela

Jack! cold WX starting:

With my Dells, I just turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pressure to come up, pump it 6 times, hit the starter and pump it a few more times while it catches and then hold the idle at around 2000 (just like Angela) until it smoothes out (about 30 seconds). After that, just drive away and it acts pretty normal.

Won't have to do that today on Christmas, though......it's supposed to hit 80 here today and we're heading to the beach!

Sounds a lot better than living in the "Grand Dutchy of Stanistan", doesn't it?????

(Sorry, Stan!)

gn

Obviously, starting in cold weather takes more fuel. This is aggravated by the fact that in cold weather, the air is dry and the car sits for longer periods of time. The float bowls will evaporate dry- for sure, uh huh.

The electric fuel pump really is a must in this situation, unless you want to crank for 60 seconds or so with no oil pressure every time you evaporate all the fuel out of the float bowls (it only take a week or so for my car in the summer- less in the winter).

If you have fuel in the carbs, and it still doesn't want to light- a $3 can of ether goes a long way.....

Thanks for the (unsolicited) weather update, Gordon. It's a balmy 10 deg here in the People's Republic (we're havin' a heat wave), with 2" of ice on everything. However, there can be no leaving just now for warmer climes- as I am the President for Life, beloved by my loyal comrades (that and the small matter of the 10 ft razor wire electric fence surrounding my borders, to keep my loyal comrades from getting "restless"). It is my duty to serve at the pleasure of my comrades, (who's love is so obvious we have no need for elections).

So, you just enjoy your 80 deg Christmas at the beach. We'll be out here on the steppes hunkered down by the fire.

Merry Christmas! ;)

Right: electric fuel pump a big plus here. Assuming fuel all in place after turing on the pump and waiting a few secs, one has to pump the pedal like a bass drum at a rock concert. Several pumps initially before any cranking, then pump some more when it starts turning. It may cough and sputter w/out catching for good a few times, but it will get going. When it starts to go, you still pump the pedal. The accellerator jets need to be feeding raw fuel for that crucial first few moments. Works w/ my 2332 w/ dual 44IDFs, and also worked this way for my old Coupes running Solex's of one size or another.

I'm reading this thread and remembering why E85 gas is only 85% ethanol is the U.S. It's because at near zero and lower, a pure ethanol car will NOT start. That is where you use that other 15% pure old fashioned oil based stuff comes into play. Now you know!

I beleive I read somewhere, way up north, they have flex fuel vehicles that actually have two separate fuel tanks. A small gas tank is used to start and get the engine and oil warm and then the computer switches the engine to whatever fuel they were using - maybe a heavy diesel - can't quite remember that part. Bearing lubrication at minus 30 or minus 40 must be very interesting during the first few engine revolutions?

I wish someone would come up with some short velocity stacks with choke flaps in them that adapt to more than one carberator. That would help even more.. Even if you had to make them manual chokes...

Hey, Barry....That's a good idea!! You'd have to deal with actuating the choke shaft through the air cleaners, but it sounds do-able.

Stan!

Looking at the Weather Channel, I think that the only part of the country that is warm at all is the Southeast Coast down into Florida. Might be because the Gulf Stream is pretty close to the coast along here (it's only 60 miles East of my house) and the water temp out there is still in the 70's. Who knows? All I know is that it's nice here, I totally appreciate it, and I don't tell my kids or parents the temp here any more (it's rarely even up to 40 in New England these days and they just get ticked).

Gordon--well today here in Hot Springs, Ar we were blessed with a high temp of 75 degrees! Not too shabby---and the Speedie started right up.----Jack

I think in those VW's you use a fairly thick oil?? If that's the case, then I think I would use an electric oil pan heater too. Just an hour or so will heat up the oil so the engine will crank over much better and you'll get oil flowing much faster. Up here you can get a magnetic electric heater that you just plug in the stick it on anything magnetic...like the sump cover. I use a type make in Alaska that looks like a short length of flattened fire hose. It sticks on with high temp silicone.

As far as the starting procedures go...I've started my 911 powered IM and my old 4 cylinder 912 in temps down to minus 30 or so using essentially the same procedures as mentioned by other posters above. You gotta feed it gas at low temps but not enough to flood.