Electrical / Battery question

Maybe this has been covered but I can't find it.

Yesterday my Speedster battery was so dead that my charger wouldn't charge it. Auto Zone put it on their charger and it charged ok in about 2 hours.

I had not driven the car in 2 weeks but it's sat a lot longer than that without the battery going dead. A while back I noticed that after doing some service on the car that the battery would spark when I was re attaching the negative lead. Nothing was turned on (radio, lights, etc.)I told this to the guy at Auto Zone yeaterday and he said that sparking was normal.

The Muir book says that if you see sparks by touching the neative wire to the battery post you have a short somewhere. To isolate it you pull fuses and check again for sparks.

Who is right--Muir or Auto Zone (I vote for Muir) --and is this why my battery ran down?---Jack

sounds like a draw on the battery when it's at rest.

Does your stereo have a station memory? Did you shut the car off with the wipers still on? Something small like that? Maybe an electric clock? Possibly leave the key in the ignition and the switch was between poles?

Good luck!

It is NOT Autozone.

When I attach the terminal the + would let a spark go when it touches the battery on both cars. I think that's perfectly normal.

To see if there's a drain you can remove the + cable from the battery and hook your - multi-meter to it and then the + multi-meter to the + side of the battery. Measure the milliamps anything under 50 is OK, over means there is a drain somewhere.

Well I just measured the current between the pos batt post and the + cable and got 250ma so I guess I'll start pulling fuses and try to isolate the circuit causing the drain. I appreciate the advice here.

"Madness" yep,they got it right.

---Jack

Man--am I stumped. I op--pulled all the fuses and still get a reading of 250ma.

What I have is the cable on the - post of the battery, Then putting the meter between the positive post and the negative post I get 250 ma
with all the fuses pulled.

I have a Pertronics solid state unit in place of the points--if that matters.

I am seriously over my head ---would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks---Jack

Jack if you have the vs radio/ cd like me, make sure you hold down the stand- by button until the radio totally shuts down. Just a suggestion.

Marty

Thanks, Marty--good thought and that could have drained the battery--I'll be careful in the future how I turn the radio off---sure will after THIS!

I have the battery charged but I'm afraid that if I reconnect it it will just run down again because of the drain that I seem to have.
I have seen sparks when connecting the negative cable so maybe something was shorting out.

I will attach a drawing of how I took the reading to get the 250 ma
reading--that seems too much--especially with all the danged fuses out!

It was suggested that I clean up the connection where the negative battery cable attachwes to the car ground which I did---but I still get that same reading.

I'll read the Muir book some tonight and will be very happy when I solve this issue. Thanks again---Jack

Doesn't solve the problem but you can get a battery on-off switch which has a red plastic removeable key handle. It cuts all power and acts as a burgular prevention system too. Harbor Freight has them for like $3.99. They're red and black plastic.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92688

Thanks Wolfgang. I did order a cut off switch today that attaches to the negative post and has a little wheel you turn for battery on or off.

I really want to solve this though!! Thanks---Jack

My fog lights,wiper radio and horn all are killed by the key switch..

The only extra I have on it now that I do have to watch are the electric heater guns on a battery disconnect flip switch.

If I leave them on they will kill it quickly.

I have a key off lights on buzzer,,, installed.. I need to tie the heater into that. They are just quiet enough to overlook if your not paying mind..

I have left my lights on at work so many times in the bug over the years I kept a battery buddy in the trunk...

The foggy mornings would get me evey time. I had to fix that problem . on both cars,, But I feel your pain Jack ..I have been there and done that....
I have a question is your car alternator or generator equipped..?? I have seen voltage regulators do that.. when they are about to go bad..

Jack that is the way. Have you turned your voltmeter to higher than required amp draw then clicked down to a lower, then lower number? Are you sure it's 250 and not 25?

Maybe look (since the fuses are out) wiring that isn't connected to a fuse. Like the voltage regulator or the coil. Remove the power to the coil?????

As Barry said, check the alt. I've had them start to fail and drain power. Maybe disconnect the lead and check the meter. Dying starters are also a cause for dead batteries.

~WB

Barry, Mike, Bill--thanks--these are things I can check and will do so this afternoon. My basic problem is that I didn't have a clue about WHAT to check!

I measured the voltage the same way as I measured the current and got 12v. This is with neg connected, + off the post and putting the meter leads one on the +post and one on the unattached +cable end.
That is really weird to me. I'm getting the same voltage reading just the positive as I get reading the + and - battery posts!

Also I'll search on the Samba and call Kirk Duncan at Vintage this morning.

Wish I was smarter but owning a Speedster is sure an education, isn't it?---Jack

"I measured the voltage the same way as I measured the current and got 12v. This is with neg connected, + off the post and putting the meter leads one on the +post and one on the unattached +cable end.
That is really weird to me. I'm getting the same voltage reading just the positive as I get reading the + and - battery posts!"

That makes sense to me, Jack. You have some sort of draw or short to ground. So the current is flowing through the positive cable to ground and back to the negative post via the negative cable. I would definitely look at the voltage regulator as a culprit, either that or maybe something is chafed and grounding out. What is the voltage across the battery engine idling and revved a little, say 2000 rpms. It should be between 13.8 and 14.2 volts. Below that it won't keep the battery charged enough, above it and it will overcharge and boil out the battery.

Usually the latest thing to be changed is the problem. Everything was fine until recently. I know you added fog lights, perhaps something is amiss there?

Of course you will get the proper voltage 12v if you hook your vom in series to the battery. Thats fine. In order to look for a leak you would hook your vom in series with the battery (earlier post) and measure AMP draw not V.

Thanks Danny--I did suspect the fog lights buy I have that fuse pulled and I still have all the conditions I've described.

I looked at the Samba and got some ideas and surely my problem has to be with a non-fused component--Alternator, Starter, coil. (What about the Petronics ignitor in the dist?)

I think I have an internal regulator in my Alternator? Anyway I plan to remove the large red wire from the alternator and see if current is still draining.

Who knew it could be this much fun??---Jack

If a relay is active that will cause a drain have someone to listen for a clicking relay while tapping the cable to the battery.

I have made that mistake also my Bose amps where on all the time..

OK--it was the radio. Removing the ground wire from the frame stopped the current. Now I have no radio but I couldn't hardly hear the damned thing anyway. I have no idea what started the radio acting up and feel that there is some short in the radio somewhere. I'll replace it next week and hope that a new one works out.

The first thing I checked was the Viper alarm system. It causes no drain but for some strange reason does not work now. I haven't used it in months and discovered it not working in testing it today. I can locate a Viper dealer areound here to check it. The Viper was not causing any current loss as I checked it with and without the fuse.

Funny--the radio ground sparked like hell when touched to the frame. This explains the large current ---between 250 and 300 ma which is a lot. If anyone has any ideas about the radio I'd sure appreciate hearing 'em before I spring for a new radio.

Thanks to all who gave me ideas and info. Without the folks on this site Speedster ownership wouldn't be nearly as much fun.---Jack

The radio memory and clock circuts will draw some but I don't think it is anywhere the 250 -300ma you mentioned. ~Alan

Alan--you are right that the radio memory won't draw 250-300ma. Based on the strength of the sparks when I touch the ground wire to ground plus the reading on the vom there has to be something wrong with the radio ---some short inside or something. Anyway the radio is disabled and the drain has stopped.

I appreciate all the tips that were given here.---Jack

Jack-my son-in-law has been a custom radio/alarm/gps tech for many years; I shot him an e-mail late last night to generally describe your radio problem/ Viper alarm "reset" problem. I may know more later this morning. In the meantime, if you know the radio mfg/mod no. or specs and the Viper alarm model it may help. To be continued...
Scott
8:30am add-found this gizmo on the internet: "Devisolator" ... http://www.smgy.net/batterybrain/products/devisolator.html

Scott--thanks for the offer of help.

On the radio--I think there's something wrong with it and got a replacement today. I changed from Kenwood to Pioneer ---I'm sure all that stuff is made in the same factory though!

The Alarm is a Viper 5000. It hasn't worked for a while and seems to not have power going to it. It wasn't draining the batt but of course if it had no power gouingb to it it wouldn't. I hope to get some time to troubleshoot it tomorrow.

Thanks again---Jack

Final chapter--today I switched the radio and the problem with the short is solved. Something went wrong internally with the old radio and that caused a huge current drain. The new radio works great and the drain is 5-10 ma which is nothing. That little drain is from the radio's memory--clock and station pre sets.

The alarm sysyem is fried however---an expensive Viper 5000. Tomorrow I'll remove all the Viper components from the car and work on getting a new one from Best Buy. I don't know what caused the Viper to die---likely something with all the shor mess I had but that's ok. At least I will have my car back 100% to where it was before my first post here.

I got pretty good with a VOM because of this!---Jack