1600cc or 1915cc

YES!! I have a 2054cc (which is a stroked 1915) making 140 hp.

I wasn't even content with the 1915.

I'm going to Suby this winter.

You should really consider my engine with 20K miles on it. You won't get a better deal on an engine. Ask Carey.

My car is in Bremen now waiting for the swap.

> On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:06 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <**************> wrote:
>

A 1776 cc seems to be a sweet spot.  Not over bored case (my opinion of boring to 94mm).  Add a Engle 110 came, slight head upgrade, and small dual single barrel carbs.

You will regret not getting toms motor...but at least get the 1915.  I have had two speedsters.  1 1600 and 1 1915.  Big difference.  Now im on a suby motor and holy shi? What a big difference above air cooled

Thanks for the feedback everyone.  Tom - appreciate the offer....I'll certainly think about it.  

 

PM me if you want more details or my phone number to talk about it.

> On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:59 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <**************> wrote:
>

Go with the 1915- the more displacement and power these cars have, the more fun they are!  Thousands of VW engines have been bore for 94mm cylinders and it doesn't affect longevity, so don't worry about it. And yeah, Tom's engine  would be a really good deal. Al

What's the price difference between a 1915 and a 2,110?  (notice I don't even mention that puny-wooney 1,600...)  If the difference is under $100 bucks, I would opt for the 2,110 and never look back ('cuz there won't be much back there, anyway....)

Well I have had 1600cc engines and I have driven 1850 ish cc, then I owned a 2110cc CB engine ... there is no comparison in my opinion 2110 is a very good power to weight ratio and the others really feel anemic IMHO.  I now have a 2.5L subie and you know Todd when the rule of the King was law, and the king said Hshit, there was movement in the crowd. :_) 

Heck.  I had a 2332c.c. CBPerformance engine, and it ran perfectly for miles.  Don't worry too much about the engine being 'overstressed'.  If it's built properly, there is no problem.

My  build from 1600cc to 1914cc cost just under $2000. This included machine work ,jugs and pistons and rings, cam, tuned  extractor exhaust and phat boy muffler, gaskets , hardware,lifters,stage 1 pressure plate,1.5 qt sump  and what ever else it took to get back together. I wasn't happy with the included baby carbs so I sprung for an additional $800 for dual Weber IDf 40s which made a very satisfactory improvement.The engine idles well and accelerates smoothly with no hesitation or flat spots. Probably runs alittle rich but I'm satisfied with the increase in power.Its been in the car three years.

Joel

.

So many of the low mileage Speedsters we see advertised for sale have the 1600cc engine.  My guess is that the car was not much fun with such a puny power plant and was being dumped by an unsatisfied owner.   

My first engine was a 1915 and had ample power for long road trips at good speed.  The only reason I upgraded was to get more reliability but in tyhe process I now have an engine that dynoed at 142 mph ----fun?  You bet!  There are times when extra oomph is great to have like merging into fast traffic or dodging big rigs on the highway.  My highway philosophy is that no one is going to get near me so they can't hurt me and I am constantly viligent to stay away from other vehicles.   Extra power is handy for that purpose.

I have never driven a Speedster with just 1600 ccs but have owner a few bugs back in the day with that kind of power ad it was like towing an anchor and pretty hard to get out of anyone's way.   Yep---go at least 1915  or don't bother.  I haven't heard anyone say how much they loved their little 1600cc poweed Speedster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you plan on doing all of your driving  around a retirement community get the bigger engine.

Many of us on this forum have gone from a 1600 to 1776 to 2110 to 2275 or 2332.  Save yourself some money (in the long run) and get Tom's engine or a 2110 and don't cheap out on the heads.

Going above a 1915 cc takes a new stroked crank and clearancing of the case - a decent stroker crank is $500+, then you need a better than stock cam, an performace alloy case maybe, bigger valved heads, solid rockers, oil cooler, bigger dual carbs, old heat exchangers have to go  --- it's called the MADNESS for a reason.  

Or you can just buy a great used CB performance 2054 with all of the goodies ready to go.

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 12:43 PM, SpeedsterOwners.com <**************> wrote:
>

Tom's engine isn't cheap but it's the last one you'll have to buy.  If you start out too small you'll end up spending more getting to where you want to be.

Well you guys are trying to sell wisdom... wisdom always comes from experience.....

HP (really torque) is addictive. It's like money, hard to have too much.  Go big.

I have a 2332 -- 'nough said.

There's a huge difference between a stock 1600 and a nice 1915, and another huge difference when you stroke the engine. After that: 2110, 2276, 2332, 2387...

Whatever.

Displacement is nice, but the power is all in the heads and cam. Once you are at the 2L level, the cam/heads are an order of magnitude more important than the displacement.

That doesn't mean a street engine will run better on Competition Eliminators and an FK89-- it means that the object should be to get flow numbers that will support the HP you are looking for from the smallest intake runners possible, and a cam that maximizes the cylinder filling in the RPM range you want to live in.  A 2110 with Los Panchitos-esque heads and a Engle 120 with 40 Dellortos and a 1-1/2" sidewinder is oh-so-fine, and won't break the bank. There's a lot of ways to screw it up, and I've tried several. Some combinations work really, really well... a lot don't.

Fortunately, Pat Downs knows what works. I'd trust him to give me what I needed, if I were you.

Pat Downs =  CB Performance.  The ones who built my engine.

Stan wrote: "A 2110 with Los Panchitos-esque heads and a Engle 120 with 40 Dellortos and a 1-1/2" sidewinder is oh-so-fine, and won't break the bank."

Sounds like what I've got, swapping a Berg Extractor for the sidewinder exhaust (I have dual mufflers horizontally, below the rear valence - the Sidewinder is a great alternative).  I used the CB performance intake manifolds (6" risers, I think) and had to do a LOT of porting on them to match them to my head ports but that made quite a difference.  The torque at 2,000 rpm - 4,500 is awesome, even running a 3:44 final.  I honestly don't feel the need for more power, but certainly wouldn't want less!

A lot of good info here! My thoughts- the more displacement the better (and don't worry, I will tell you why!). A 1600 is fine for putting around in, but as mentioned earlier, it really won't make enough power to get out of it's own way when you need it to. Remember, these are sports cars, and they're all about being fun to drive. For some guys a 1915 is enough- cam it to run to 6,000rpm, port some stock valve heads, and with some kadrons or small Webers or Del's, 1 1/2" exhaust with a proper merged collector and 8 3/4 or 9:1 compression it will be a reliable, solid performer with decent torque and 105 or so hp.

These cars are so much fun, though, with 2 liters or more, and the big thing here is the increase in torque right from idle on up (where you will be doing 90 or 95% or your driving). The bigger torque curve isn't just from the increase in displacement (otherwise a 2 liter wouldn't really be that much more than a 1915), but comes from the change in rod ratio when using a longer stroke crankshaft with stock (or in some cases even shorter) rods. VW used a really conservative rod ratio when designing the 13/15/1600. Automotive technology has grown so much in the last 50 years, we've learned so much since then, and the VW aircooled engine really responds well to this change. The increase in power is totally out of proportion to the displacement increase, and now these cars become really fun to drive!

Yeah, it will cost more (Wolfie's post above is a little alarmist, I think), but the benefits are so worth it. Anything above 2 liters will give a killer torque curve (and be so much more fun!). With a 6,000rpm power peak the engine will now need ported 40x35 heads and maybe bigger carbs and exhaust (and at this point an external cooler with thermostat would be a really good idea as well), but (built properly) will still be a reliable, solid performer that you can take anywhere. If you can find a good magnesium case, the cost comes down by 800 or $1,000 and now it may come close to fitting in your budget (cut out the latte's and a couple other things and you'll have the money in no time!).

I don't say this very often here, but it's just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al

No one who has a 2110 wants to go lower.... but higher...  

Caretech-IM posted:

No one who has a 2110 wants to go lower.... but higher...  

Ain't that the truth.

Ron I should have said ... that we are trying to share our wisdom but that wisdom must be paid for... you know how, by doing it 4 times and finally getting the big engine... then you have to find a way to kick yourself for not listening  

Go big! 

Be sure to have these items included and the builder says no, move on. 

Full flow, deep sump, remote oil cooler with fan mounted anywhere othe than above the trans or behind the seat. Balance rotating assembly, sand seal the front pulley, at least #8 breather hoses from valve cover to a decent breather box like a RLR one with a third breather/drain back to the case, ported heads, aftermarket rocker shafts with berg adjusters, and if you step up to ratio rockers either berg or pauter. Weber carbs !   No empi crap.

i can go on, but I think you got it.