One sheet of info provided by Vintage Speedster for my 2015, 1600cc, 70-hp car says that, regarding timing, “...recommendations for the 1972 VW model year can be followed.” On another page it says “Timing: 7 degrees advanced.”
However, Muir's “...for the Compleat Idiot” book says 5 degrees ATDC for 1971-1973 models, using a strobe light at idle with vacuum hoses on. Haynes says the same.
What is the correct adjustment?
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28 -30 degree full advance at 3000 rpm is your best setting.
It depends on the distributor.
If it's mechanical only then 28-32* BTDC @ 3500
If it's vacuum and mechanical, then you need to get the part number and look up the specs here: http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
My bad I assumed you have a mechanical 009 dizzy
Alan Merklin posted:My bad I assumed you have a mechanical 009 dizzy
Let's hope not.
I always see things like 28 degrees at 3500 rpm. Does this mean at higher rpms it could have more advance?
I have been setting it to maximum advance of 28 at whatever rpms it happens to be.
If the recommendation of 28 degrees (or whatever) is maximum it seems like the rpms at that advance depends on the advance curve of the distributor.
The mechanical advance is all in at 3500 so that's why we use that as the spec.
Glenn Ring posted:Alan Merklin posted:My bad I assumed you have a mechanical 009 dizzy
Let's hope not.
Glenn, why not? I know nothing about the topic...
Misunderstood. I need info on timing as in hpw many degrees before or after TDC.
Bill - the advance curve on the 009s ends up leaving a very noticeable flat spot on acceleration. It is a inexpensive distributor designed more for industrial engines that run at constant RPM or race engine where advance is full in vs a street vehicle with revs up and down. Early German/Brazil 009 were ok quality (IMHO) but the new very cheap Chinese 009 are crap. I've read that new out of box, no two will advance identically. Look at how many distributors VW used with various carbs/engines - be foolish to think a $49 009 would work with every VW out there (or they would have done it). Geeze you can even get chrome ones.
I'm sure Glenn can give details - he probably uses them for paperweights. I've heard the 010 and 019 centrifugal advance are ok?
I've tested a number of Chinese 009 knockoffs and found anywhere from 14-44* advance. Also i've seen some with a lot of wandering dwell which indicates poor bushings.
The Bosch cast iron models are rock stable and a rebuilt 019 or 010 will be much better. Generally the 019 is good for stock to mild engines and the 010 for mild to high performance. I have a 010 on my 2180 and push the engine to 7000+ rpm with no point float or instability.
If anyone is interested, I have a few in stock, so email me with engine specs and we can discuss offline.
The 010's and 019's both have excellent curves for dual carbed engines , the 019 being just slightly more suitable for a milder street engine and the 010 being a little better in full throttle (racing) mode. They both have cast iron bodies, which seems to give more stable advance readings at all rpm's. Glenn may chime in and fill in a bit here, as he has a ton of experience with these 2 disributors and rebuilds them. Note that both the 010 and 019 are like the 009 in that all are centrifigal advance only.
That said, I wouldn't hesitate to use 1 or the other if it was all I could find. When cleaned up and rebuilt either will reportedly outperform even a German 009 in good shape. That said,if all I could get my hands on was a properly working 009, it would do the trick as well.
For most guys, though, the best thing for the street (dual or single carbed) is a vacuum/mechanical (svda) distributor. You will get similar performance when you're foot's into it and 4? 5? points better mileage and cooler running when it's not. Note that the idle circuit(s) have to be jetted a step or 2 leaner than normal to take full advantage of the extra advance at part throttle. The trick, these days, is finding a decent svda. Al
PS- I see Glenn beat me to it already...
Glenn Ring posted:I have a 010 on my 2180 and push the engine to 7000+ rpm with no point float or instability.
Are you running an MSD or any kind of ignition box?
wombat posted:One sheet of info provided by Vintage Speedster for my 2015, 1600cc, 70-hp car says that, regarding timing, “...recommendations for the 1972 VW model year can be followed.” On another page it says “Timing: 7 degrees advanced.”
However, Muir's “...for the Compleat Idiot” book says 5 degrees ATDC for 1971-1973 models, using a strobe light at idle with vacuum hoses on. Haynes says the same.
What is the correct adjustment?
The answer turned out to be: 10 degrees before top dead center, as per Kirk (who finally got back to me).
So is it running better?
The vacuum/mechanical distributors do not perform like the 010 and 019. They were designed to work with stock carbs. Since these cars are not daily drivers and most have some sort of performance engines, you want to get the most out of it. The 019 and 010 have been the "Hot Rodder's" choice since the late 60.
I run a Bosch 010 on my 2180, 42x37 heads, dual IDAs and FK8 cam.
I fully realize all that, Glenn, but the svda can be tweaked (although I'm the first to admit I've never done it) so the mechanical curve is a little more suited to dual carbs (the charts I've seen make it look similar to a German 009) and with the vacuum advance it's much more street friendly. Not that mileage is a deal breaker or anything, but a lot of Speedster owners will do more driving in a day than some Beetle owners (especially on long trips) and now fuel mileage becomes more of a factor. I would bet if you were to poll the crowd here, you're not going to find many putting street racing, or driving to and sitting at a show all day as their preferred activities.
...I just want mine to go from point A to point B without vomiting all of it's oil...
I'd even settle for a slow pace, so long as we arrive before Happy Hour is over!
ALB posted:I fully realize all that, Glenn, but the svda can be tweaked (although I'm the first to admit I've never done it) so the mechanical curve is a little more suited to dual carbs (the charts I've seen make it look similar to a German 009) and with the vacuum advance it's much more street friendly. Not that mileage is a deal breaker or anything, but a lot of Speedster owners will do more driving in a day than some Beetle owners (especially on long trips) and now fuel mileage becomes more of a factor. I would bet if you were to poll the crowd here, you're not going to find many putting street racing, or driving to and sitting at a show all day as their preferred activities.
I get 28mpg on the highway and that's with dual 48 IDAs. I also have 475,000 miles on my car. Most of the car shows I attend are a few hours away and i drive there.
You don't need a RACE car to enjoy a properly tuned engine with the RIGHT mechanical distributor.
Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Alfa and BMW all used mechanical only distributors in the 50s and 60s. It wasn't until the late 60s when emissions came into the picture that mechanical only went away.
Yes, there were vacuum/mechanical in the 50s but most were mechanical only.
