1641cc Fresh Complete Rebuilt VW Engine -$2500

Looks like a good deal, George, and I'm sure you know how to build a fine engine. The only comment I have is your hp estimate- you're not going to get 80 hp out of a stock cammed, stock head 1641, even with dual carbs and a 1 3/8" header/muffler.

 

http://kaddieshack.com/1600dynoresults.html

 

I realize you could argue that the engine in the link is down on hp to start with (and we don't know it's condition/history), but even with a fresh 1600 making 55 or 58hp (it would be a pretty special 1600 to do 58hp, and don't bother with the "it's a 1641" argument; 50cc's is not enough increase to make that much difference), with carbs and exhaust it'll hit maybe 70? With the Engle W100 cam a more realistic estimate is 75-80hp. 

 

I'm not trying to be difficult; let's just not over-estimate what a combo can do. Al

Cummon' Al! Everybody knows about the Orange County Correction Factor. It's how you end up with a 100 hp 1776 using stock cam and heads, 1.25 rockers, a 1-3/8" EMPI header, and some Kadrons.

 

Seriously- that's a nice engine, George, and a great deal for somebody. If I were in the market (I'm not) I'd absolutely spring for a counterweighted crank (no matter what), throw on some 1.25 rockers, and be it is what it wants to be: a peppy little engine that'll run trouble-free (Jim Ignacio-style) for years and years.

Just want everybody to know what they'd be getting, Stan. And that "correction factor isn't always limited to Orange county.

 

And with a stock cammed engine, go for the 1.4's; 1.25's don't make enough of a difference in this case to make it worthwhile for the money spent...

 

 

I have built nearly 7 thousand 1641 engines that run at the drag strip. All of them use synthetic motor oil.

George:

 

Is Erika headed your way?

 

Art

George - At face value, I believe your engine offer is a very good deal and appreciate that you're offering it to SOC members at a fair price.

 

I'm sure you already realize that on the internet, EVERYBODY is an expert and you can expect most all comments will be challenged. No need to get sucked into a debate over your expertise (that's a no-win scenario - kinda like arguing with a MLB umpire). For anyone seriously interested in George's gentleman's offer, I recommend contacting George directly and draw your own conclusions. 

Well, George, you can do that in a lot of countries.

 

 

 

Bob I'm pretty sure what he meant was North America.

Nice deal George !

Erika!  I'm further East from George in FL panhandle.  Hoping hurricane goes the Miami and North along Atlantic route (Sorry Lane).  Hoping it doesn't enter Gulf at all.  Son just bought house nearby in FL - .2 miles from Santa Rosa Sound.  1988 2 story frame house on North side of HWY 98 (so 4 lane divided highway for any storm surge to cross).  I was shocked with initial insurance estimates - GEICO subs came in at $6100 & $6700 - that's $500 a month on an under $200k house.  I did have a wind mitigation survey done to prove it had clips between plywood, hurricane straps and 6 nails per shingle.  That cut $1800 off other estimates - finally got insurance for $1800/yr.  Planning to reside with Hardy Board for another reduction.  Do have to cut 4 huge Magnolia trees threatening house.  FL Insurance is 3x what I would pay up in VA!  Just aren't a ny major companies offering - No State Farm, All State, Nationwide, USAA in the housing insurance business.

Are you a humble man as well?

 

Yep that's clearly the problem here. I wouldn't know a good engine if it bit me on the butt. Yours looked like a good deal, and I said so- but now that you mention it, I'm unfit to offer any observation.

 

I'll just buy one of Rusty's instead. He's built 7000 of them.

Actually I think that number could be double that if you include all the other numbers... 1300s 1400s 1792s 1857s uh 1931s and on up into the 3121s...

 

I'm just messing with you George. I read all of your posts but I did say to myself after the 3rd or 4th one this guy will be selling something... soon!

 

Get a member down your way to try one of your motors out and lets get some feedback. People are always looking for motors on here. Especially fast ones!

ohhhh.

 

Is your 3121 $2995? I'm a sucker for a low price. I go with price only, so it has to be cheap.

 

The Chinese have come a long way. The parts I use are sound. Just gimme 90 percent down and I'll start building you one.

Rusty and Stan ...Youz guys are great entertainment  ba da bing ba da boom :~)

 

....Honest AL your used Speedy Pal !

 

Congrats George, good luck with the new build.

Is it just me or is this getting very long winded?

For those who have a vast amount of knowledge and for those who think they have a vast amount of knowledge it might seem to be getting long winded.  But for a guy like me whose only experience with a VW engines has come from the last year of owning a Replica Speedster it's all new information.

 

George is well into his 70's and may feel it is his duty to share his knowledge and experience with everyone, even if his postings are wordy and sometimes repetitive. I read them all because I may learn something.  If I've already read it I move on. So can anyone else.

 

My dad was sitting with a friend of mine at a dinner.  I had gone off to the silent auction to bid on some items and my friend remained with my dad and listened to his stories.  I came back after a half hour and my dad was still talking about a trip he had just taken.  I asked my dad if he knew even one thing about my friend and my dad said, "No.". I told him he needed to let others talk because they might have something interesting to say.  My dad quipped back, "But I'm the most interesting person here.". He didn't say it because he's conceited, he said it because he has visited to every state, country, and continent in the world and he remembers every detail.

 

George has a lot of experience and he's just trying to share it.

Yeah, so here's the thing, George: Nobody besides you is kicking sand in anybody's face. You've been here for a bit over a month, and with some of your first posts, went on the offense. Right out of the shoot, you told us:

 

Fair enough. A few sentences later we make the leap to:

 

Nice.

 

For the past month or so, I've only noticed one guy keeps telling us how we should all listen to him, because he's the smartest guy in the room. You said,

 

In THIS thread, you told us:

 

That's a big, blanket condemnation of the mechanical veracity and ignorance of the entire group. Statements like this naturally tend to raise some hackles. Alan Merklin has built 30-odd speedsters, from the ground up. Guess what? HE taught auto-mechanics in a community college as well. That's the guy who made the comment about the air in the room.

 

The rest of us? I put together a twin-plugged, dry-sump 2276 I've taken to the west coast twice. Gordon has a 2110 he built himself about 50K mi ago. Robert has a freaking 3.6L Porsche. Al's built many, many Type 1s. The Subaru guys are proving to be the smartest guys in the room.

 

Just so I get this straight, ALL of us are buying bad engines because we are ignorant rich guys?

 

That's kicking sand, George. On this site there are doctors, dentists, programmers, investment brokers, businessmen large and small, a judge, several engineers, and even a legitimate rocket scientist. There are guys posting who build engines and cars as their career, guys who have built dozens of speedsters, and many, many guys who are (or have) turning wrenches for a living.

 

You keeps saying you are open to learn, but then go on for paragraph after paragraph telling us why you are right and everybody else is wrong. Well over half of what you are posting is telling us how much you know, how long you've done this, and how we all need to stop and listen to you.

 

You have a lot of valuable experience. We all get that, and appreciate your input. But however you perceives it, there are a LOT of guys posting here with an equal amount of mechanical and fabrication experience. The rest of us are sharing what we know and learning as we go.

 

A suggestion that you'll probably take as an insult, but isn't meant that way: Talk about your car. Take pictures along the way. Show me how your deep well of experience is building a better mousetrap. Don't insult the rest of us in the process.

 

Do that, and you'll fit right in.

Stan,

 

well said-thank you.

 

joel

1641cc engine, sold today. End of topic.

I think the words you were looking for were "Sorry", "my bad", or "let's agree to disagree".

We don't all have to get along, but we should try.

Jumbo Jacks ?

To be ignorant and rich...

Wish George were just a few hours from me - have several VW engines I'd like to go thru and learn from him.  One in Speedy is same specs as one he sold but I just assembled the parts and then it has sat for 25 years! 

TRP;

 

Well said.

 

Peace,

 

Art

But of course.

 

Every night, after I take off my Redwings and back brace, I swim in all the money I made being the village idiot that day.

 

It takes my tiny little mind off finding a new butler to wax my Lambo.

You know, there are some who cannot accept good advice and good tips on how to get along with other people.

The point is, none of us are as rich or as ignorant as you seem to think we are. We're all pretty good at what we do, and all work hard for what we have. We're not really looking for somebody to school us, we're looking for solid guys who show us what they can do, rather than telling us (over and over and over).

 

Learn how to post pictures. Show us what you are up to. It's a huge hassle, but it's just like theSamba- put the pictures on photobucket or pisca, and create a link.

 

My wife and I are celebrating 30 years, and we are still married. My kids are all grown and providing me grandchildren (7 with 1 on the way). We have a bit in common. I'd like to meet you too, but I'd appreciate not being talked down too. We've all got something to bring to the table. 

I'm half way there.....now all I need is lots of money.

 

 

George, as Stan says, this is a group with widely varied backgrounds, with a great depth of knowledge, skill, and experience.

 

There should be no threat or shame in discovering that others have found success with methods and equipment that differ from yours.

 

Some of us, with little experience, listen more than we type. But eventually, almost everyone here has something helpful to contribute.

 

Most of my experience is with photography and newspapers, not cars. I started in photography long before desktop computers came along. For many years, I made photographic prints in chemical darkrooms and dried those prints on ferrotype tins that gave the prints a hard, glossy surface.

 

The prints went to editors who had to crop them to fit the spaces available on their pages. The prints then went to the photo library and were filed so they could be retrieved and perhaps reused as 'file' art for future stories.

 

But then, the old crop marks had to be easily rubbed off so that new crop marks could be applied. And George, what do you think we used, all those years ago, to put those crop marks on our prints?

 

For all the vast knowledge I lack about air-cooled VW engines, about torsion bar suspensions, about clutch tube welds and Bowden tubes and windshield frames, here is somewhere even I could have helped.

 

George, I know what a grease pencil is.

 

 

Welders have an equivalent to the grease pen, but, typically, it has to be able to withstand a bit of heat.  The welding stores sell them as anything from "Grease Markers" to what they really are, simply, strips of soapstone.

 

Like Mitch - I don't know a lot about welding (my welds look like bird poop) but I DO know I have to mark stuff to get things right and have a bunch of welding soapstones.......

 

http://www.markal.com/welding-markers/

The soap stones, welders use, work best on metal, where the surface is not smooth like the finished painted fiberglass surface. I have some for my welding limited work, but it did not seem the best solution to mark on the fiberglass body. But, good suggestion.

Once, I replaced the JC Penny AC/DC electric arc welder with a good Mig welder, my welding skills improved. More improvement, when they came out with the automatic darkening lens on welding helmets.

On lights, I know the H4's are better, but I do not drive much or fast at night and if the Halogen headlights are aimed properly, they are okay. I add "driving" lights, some 50watt ones, mounted low under the bumper, as we have a lot of fog where I live and you want the light to shine down low, on the roadway, as you are driving very slow and only need to find the road. Also, they light up more of the sides of the roadway, on curves. But, good advice about the H4 beams.

Gordon, on the headlight rim seals, I had to grind away so much of the fiberglass , to allow the headlights to fit into the buckets, I would be afraid to weaken the mating of those buckets to the body, if grinding more material . Little water will work it's way around the headlight chrome rims and if so, the wires to the headlights are up from any sitting water inside the buckets. The assembly manual showed 1/2 inch hole Fiberfab said to cut, located at the bottom of the bucket, unlike VW doing the wire hole about 1/2 way up the rear of the metal buckets. The VW factory installed a drain hole with rubber piece, to allow water out of the Beetle fender headlight buckets. One hole, at the bottom is smart idea from CMC/Fiberfab. I use recycled original VW headlight plug/connector , which fit tight on the three pins. Some electrical grease helps keep corrosion off the connections. Good sources for the headlight rim seals. Note me using Hella headlight parts, as I find those adjustment screws to align the lights on China made products are flimsy.

I am looking at having a speedster built and need some advice on engine choice, I am looking for dependability, I live in San Diego area and it's been hot here lately.I'm not looking for a lot of HP. My last Porsche was a 67 912. That car had lots of ponies.I think  that motor was close to a Super "90". Musbjim has a 1915 I believe and that motor has my interest. Does anyone know what HP these motors generate. I know there is a lot of variables out there but my head is starting to swim with info.Any info would be appreciated. 90 HP is my minimum to low 100's.This is going to be a cruiser and not a track car.

Michel,

 

You will likely get better response if you start your own thread.

Yeah new thread - but SEARCH as it has been discussed before.

 

A 1776 cc is a very dependable engine without generating a lot of heat.  It uses a stroked crank (adds cost of a $500ish 74mm throw crank) and 90.5 mm pistons and jugs.  Case has to be clearance slightly for the crank and heads and case have to be bored for the bigger pistons.  The 1915 uses a stock crank but bores the case and heads to 94 mm (pretty much the max and often to the thread on the head studs.  So one uses stroke for power and other uses displacement.  I suspect with proper cam and dual carbs both would give 90 hp. I like the 1776 cc for longevity.

 

Here's 94 mm bored heads with head studs close to sealing surface.

 

Few will agree with me on this advice, but due to the often cheap parts used in making the common 1915cc, which is 69mm stroke X 94mm bore, I never would buy one. Reason, again, low cost parts in most of them. Not against using 94mm but to do it right, you need to invest money in a NEW case without head stud holes and have a machine shop drill and tap the new case for 10mm head studs, moved away from the 94mm bore requirements on the case. And, to add to the expense of doing it right, suggest using Mahle pistons and cylinders if you can find them are at least good cylinders with a well known piston brand, like J&E, Wiseco or Diamond custom made pistons with Total Seal rings. Now, it's your money so you do what you want to.

The cheap engines used to be the famous , short lasting 1835cc, back in the day. Now, since 92mm got a bad reputation, they went with the 94mm cheap bore kit, reground cam, reground lifters, etc. to mass produce a low cost "big" size engine. And, they probably produce about 100HP, with good heads and dual Weber two barrel carbs, but you will not have a long lasting engine. By long lasting, I mean something which gets 50,000 miles on it.

My choice for a long lasting street engine, if you want to hold down cost and have about 90 to 100HP, as you want, use the dependable 1776cc. It's stock stroke 69mm X 90.5mm. Even the AA brand of 90.5mm hold up good as there is less friction on the rings and less ring surface to wear. Put your money into a good set of heads and dual Weber two barrel carbs and good exhaust and mild cam and you will have a cool running engine which will produce the power you look for, have good rpm range and last longer than 50,000 miles. With normal driving and normal maintenance. Just the dog house oil cooler would be enough with not more than 8:1 CR.

Engine cost, for a good quality 1776cc runs about $5000, complete. I would rather put my money into a smaller engine with quality parts, than into a bigger cc one, with questionable parts.

A good 1915cc would cost the same price. Or, consider a 1904mm which is 74mm stroke X 90.5mm. Also, a strong running engine which is not too expensive to have built. See, it's close to the famous low cost 1915's, but has the better crankshaft, being a stroked one. You get more torque with the 1904cc than you get with the 1915cc. Really !

I followed your request for reliable street engine with 90-100 HP in my advice.

Wolfgang, I think you are talking about the 1904cc which has the 74mm stroke and 90.5mm bore kit. 1776cc used the stock crankshaft or 69mm.