1700 356 big bore motor.....Perfect for 550 or speedster

Any idea what kind of # this would put out?

Putting my seatbelt on. Popcorn is in the microwave.

It depends on carburetion but easily will make 75 to 80  horsepower with an exhaust and a set of webers.........same or more than a" super".......If those darn speedsters werent so expensive now I buy one and install this.  I have a 912 and its the way motor pulls at 6000 rpm that makes the early 4 cyl Porsche what it is.........Even duplicating bore and stroke with trick vw heads and a Porsche style cam.........I have never been able to replicate the way these engines perform or feel. Its the heads with canted valves, hemispherical combustion chambers and domed pistons that make the difference..........just like a hemi.......

I should add that this motor is also equipped with copper head gaskets and maintains original 8.5 to 1 compression. Will run fine on pump premium.

$6K is short money for a "P" pushrod 4. Good luck!

Still kicking myself for passing on a running, rebuilt by some Porsche guru in L.A. last year (after my new VS blew up). It was in a coupe and the owner was putting his number's-matching engine which was being rebuilt back into the car. It was a 1600 Super, I had video of it running and revving (as only a Porsche does), it would've come with all shrouds, tin, exhaust, everything! He was asking $7K, I offered $6K, he declined and so did I...one of the dumbest mistakes I've made...

Guys, a real 356 engine isn't going to increase the value of your car, or make it any more accepted or "original". All you'll be doing is spending a lot of money on an engine that doesn't make a lot of power and will be really expensive come rebuild time. For the same (or less) you could have a 120-140hp 2 liter, which will be way more fun.

Will- it wasn't a mistake...Al

IMHO  paying for the P word stuff in a replica doesn't make much sense as you can make more  torque and HP in 1915 and have enough left over to take you right seater on a vacation for a week or more....." Your mileage may vary"

The other way of looking at this is: the greatest drag on the hobby right now is the inability to get decent Type 1 parts. No, a Porsche engine will not make the car worth more, and yes-- they cost a heck of a lot more.

But the parts are still out there to get an all OG engine, and that's gotta be worth something in a world where guys are afraid to go more than 20 mi from their front door.

I'm not doing it, but I can see how it's appealing to the right guy... and the engine in question really is a good deal, looked at in that light.

Well I can make more torque and hp with a 2332 but you are missing my point........but as Colonel Nim says in "The Green Berets"...........I was prepared for this

However there is no way a real 356 motor will not increase the value of your car...if you have a nice body style..........disco boogie 70s flare bodies will never appreciate so I agree not smart moneywise, but the stock looking glass cars are going up. Also there are no canted valve heads for domed pistons available for VW unless custom made so you can never replicate the Porsche sensation...........I know as I still build air cooled VW motors for a living with 35 years experience. I also ran the largest air cooled VW shop in the southwest for many years.  A single carb 1915 properly jetted with a mild cam and a good exhaust might make 70hp..........but with the typical speedster monza exhaust or stock exhaust its closer to 60.   Also driving a car that revs to 6500 vs 4500 is a huge difference. I would think that a speedster with a real motor , real Porsche brakes or discs and front spindles would be a heck of a car......and realistic now with the price of the real thing. An IRS panned car would have a clear advantage over the original in fact.    Now this is an ad for sale and I don't want to come into your guys house and talk trash ...........I just thought somebody might be interested and as I said........if I found a nice kit with no motor I would go this way.   Not to mention I'm giving it away for what most shops would charge you to build a VW.......its listed on the 356 registry site and will be on the samba soon   thanks

We have a very wide array of members here and someone may be interested where others were not. While it's true a real 356 motor won't make our replicas any more real or any more valuable someone might want it for the very reasons you've suggested. Nothing revs like a Porsche motor or sounds quite like it either. GLWTS.

Now I'm offended  "disco boogie 70s flare bodies will never appreciate"

Just kidding!

Good luck with the sale, I'm sure at that price it won't take long. 

All this hype about VW & Porsche, when you can get a water cooled Subaru motor (with a minimum 175hp and a ton of torque) for less... 

The seller makes good points and the price I'd right, so let's welcome him rather than drive him off.  Heck, at that price I'd consider it if I needed an engine.  Good luck with the sale!

It would be nice just to have a real Porsche engine in your car...

Now this is an ad for sale and I don't want to come into your guys house and talk trash .........disco boogie 70s flare bodies will never appreciate so I agree, not smart moneywise.  

But you just did.    

My apologies if my previous comment seemed rather negative; that was not my intent. While I don't think a 356 engine would be a "good fit" for most replica owners and they would be better off with a dual carbed VW engine that doesn't mean someone here might not be interested, so good luck with the sale and welcome to this forum. If you decide to become a regular contributor and don't just use this place to sell stuff you'll find us an interesting bunch. 

That said-These cars are all about the fun factor, and in light of what even a crusty Speedster (but with a P vin#) goes for these days, the best bang for the buck. I really don't think most people (owners or on-lookers) would appreciate a replica with a 356 engine or period Porsche brakes (or other suspension parts), as VW/aftermarket stuff costs subsantially less and 99 of 100 admirers wouldn't know the difference (or care). When you can build a 1776, thickwall 1835 or 1915 with dual kadrons (or even better, Webers or Del's), ported stock valve heads, a proper 4 into 1 header and cam that revs to 5500 or 6,000rpm, get 90 or 100 (or a little more) horsepower and have substantial money left in your pocket I don't, and I think most replica owners won't see the point. Same with brakes- Period Porsche (which are still drums, although I'm the first to admit very good ones, and oh, I do love the look of finned drums!) will definitely add to the cool factor, but such an infinitesmally small percentage of people will recognize them for what they are and most owners (given the choice) will opt for more modern, hassle-free, waaayy cheaper and ultimately safer disc brakes (hey, plastic cars need all the help they can get!).

Again, this is just my opinion; I don't apologize for it, and I stand by what I said above and in my first post. H*ll, I don't even see why guys bother with Porsche badging; we're not fooling anybody. And taking the time to move the speedometer to the other side? You can guess what I think of that (ok, now I'm going off on a bit of a rant ). These things aren't old Porsches, never will be old Porsches, and when you get past that you can then settle comfortably into your journey of making your car your vision of the ultimate open touring vehicle.

You have your opinion and that's great, and as forum mate Stan (self proclaimed President of Stanistan for life) says, "it's a big tent, and there's plenty of room for all of us" (did I get it right Stan?). If you really think there's a market for a replica Speedster with Porsche parts, build it; I'm sure someone will appreciate it. I know I'd be interested to see what it sells for (and how long it takes to find that special someone).

Have you got a first name, Volksworker? My name is Al. Again, welcome to our little forum.

Caution- ^{The opionions and views presented above are only those of the nutbar posting and don't necessarily reflect those (I don't think) of the management or any other poopiehead (and you're all poopieheads!) of this forum...} 

Without starting a banter war  ..........

75% of the 41 speedsters projects I have done were flared  bodied, they all sold and &  appreciate quite nicely.

...........I don't want to come into your guys house and talk trash .........disco boogie 70s flare bodies will never appreciate so I agree, not smart moneywise.  

But you just did.    

If I had the budget I would be all over this. Sure, you can get more HP and torque with a bored and stroked 2110 type I and you could have more power and reliability with a Suby...but you will never have that sound you get with a Porsche flat four. Those of you who have seen my Penny know I don't give a rat's ass about originality and authenticity but I do miss the sound and performance of a precision engineered engine.

Good luck with the sale, Tom. I hope it becomes a bidding war and you get absolutely top dollar.

Alan Merklin posted:

Without starting a banter war  ..........

75% of the 41 speedsters projects I have done were flared  bodied, they all sold and &  appreciate quite nicely.

...........I don't want to come into your guys house and talk trash .........disco boogie 70s flare bodies will never appreciate so I agree, not smart moneywise.  

But you just did.    

Exactly!

But then again, we've all seen what you've done to the value of our "disco flared" speedsters...and I thank you for that.

Your cars have been great comps for us "disco flared fender" speedster owners! 

VW, Thanks for posting your motor here. I looks to be a great investment for the right person. If I could I would! Imagine what this thing will be worth in 10 years!

Putting on my bell bottoms and a Village People 8-track . . .

"Stayin alive, stayin alive"...

Sorry , my name is Tom. Didn't realize my name wouldn't display. Well.............I have just a ton of 70s jokes and Frank Poncharello references I would love to reply with but I think the flared fender guys are getting pretty bitter......sorry....I buy and sell a lot of vintage cars especially Volkswagens and I will leave it to the historical evidence to do my talking. This is a cool site with a lot of input and I do appreciate being able to advertise here. I'm goin to check out the tech forums...............where I will probably start some controversy.............and if someone sold me a flared fender cheap Id drop a huge VW motor in it.............and rock it

Curves always appeal to the eye ~

volksworker posted:

Sorry , my name is Tom. Didn't realize my name wouldn't display. Well.............I have just a ton of 70s jokes and Frank Poncharello references I would love to reply with but I think the flared fender guys are getting pretty bitter......sorry....I buy and sell a lot of vintage cars especially Volkswagens and I will leave it to the historical evidence to do my talking. This is a cool site with a lot of input and I do appreciate being able to advertise here. I'm goin to check out the tech forums...............where I will probably start some controversy.............and if someone sold me a flared fender cheap Id drop a huge VW motor in it.............and rock it

Now that's the spirit!  Welcome to the maddening crowd.  (I'll let someone else welcome you to the Madness)  Oh carp, sorry guys.  

its a proven fact that 8 out of 10 Speedy replicas are still on the road.....

the other 2 made it home..:}  JUST KIDDING GUYS, TIME FOR SOME MORE TEQUILA

Tom, no worries, we love a little controversy now and then...

That's a pretty nice assortment of curvaceous beauties, Alan! 

Welcome to the site, Tom.  Thanks for rolling with the punches and going all joufuu on us

Jethro means "...and NOT going all joufuu" on us - long story, but he's paying you a compliment.

some of us like a nice flared fender. Jes sayin'.

Yes, I meant to say thanks for not going all Joufuu on us P

https://www.speedsterowners.com...jps-coupe-in-atlanta

Jethro posted:

Yes, I meant to say thanks for not going all Joufuu on us P

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...jps-coupe-in-atlanta

Thanks for posting the joufuu link.  I couldn't remember what your quote meant.  Now I get it .  

Roland Rascon built a type 1 for a guy and made it look like a 356 motor. I thought it was awesome. It was an overbuilt 2332. As much as I love the sound if a real 356 motor I don't think I'd be happy with the performance of it. I'm curious why it's not popular to build the 356 motors out to 2.xx liter engines.

As for the reliability of our vw motors.. keep in mind that Jim I. put 100K miles on his vw motor and it would still be going if he hadn't wrecked. Treat them right and they will last.

Rusty S posted:

Roland Rascon built a type 1 for a guy and made it look like a 356 motor. I thought it was awesome. It was an overbuilt 2332. As much as I love the sound if a real 356 motor I don't think I'd be happy with the performance of it. I'm curious why it's not popular to build the 356 motors out to 2.xx liter engines.

Rusty, The performance of 2.xx 356 motor is actually pretty good. I've had a VW Type I 2160 that Pat Downs built for me, and I've had a WR 2132 single plug (and now twin plug) built by John Willhoit. Both are amazing. The 356 stuff is expensive party because the heads and case have to be sourced form a shrinking supply of good parts. Some of the stuff, however, is just expensive because they gouge you.

The reason why they aren't popular? My Type I 2160 was $6500, my WR2132 twin plug was $35000.  I'm sure you can take it from there.

Have a listen to my 356 twin plugged 2132 cc motor. It runs as nice as any type I, but just WAY more money. Type I motors, especially those built by Pat Downs, are an incredible value.

https://willhoit356.smugmug.com/ENGINED ... /i-NzrCr6S

$35,000......that's getting into Jake Raby territory.

Well... I suppose $35K is a bit out of the ball park for a replica car! Since you have direct experience with both motors in your opinion can a vw type 1 get the same sound as a 356 motor with the right exhaust?

Rusty S posted:

Roland Rascon built a type 1 for a guy and made it look like a 356 motor. I thought it was awesome. It was an overbuilt 2332. As much as I love the sound if a real 356 motor I don't think I'd be happy with the performance of it. I'm curious why it's not popular to build the 356 motors out to 2.xx liter engines.

As for the reliability of our vw motors.. keep in mind that Jim I. put 100K miles on his vw motor and it would still be going if he hadn't wrecked. Treat them right and they will last.

This is the first time I've heard of a 356 engine being stroked that far, Rusty. I was under the impression (which means info from 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand sources) that going that big wasn't possible in a 356/912 case. When I first saw Wilhoit's (did I get it right?) 2132cc 356 I figured it would run mid 20's- I was 10 grand short. WOWW!

Anand- Do you know the piston size? Is the distributor body built from scratch or adapted from something? I'm guessing the cap is from a twin plug Nissan truck? I believe you can't use the whole distributor because it spins the other way. This is why Stan's is adapted from a 009.

My 356 1600cc engine and my P Downs 2110cc in my memory sounded similar depending on the exhaust chosen.  I think that restoring a real P needs a P motor and you have to drink that expensive cooled Ale if you choose that route. You will after all sell it sometime after, isn't that right Anand.