1957 Speedster, original

Holy carp!  It's bid up to $65k (last time I saw it was $40k) and still not at the reserve.  No engine, probably no floors, and still not at the reserve?  The world has gone insane.

Yeah, but you can buy an original for what an IM costs*. I've been hearing it for years.

*an original with no floors, no engine, and feral animals living in what's left of the upholstery... and an IM/6 with all the options possible.

$70k and still not at reserve!  Who said the economy hasn't rebounded?  

Greg, I'll mention that the economy has not rebounded.

$78k now on the block, looks lire reserve was probably $75k... wow feel good about my restored IM...

With the rain we have been having up here this Spring, I'm afraid my IM may end up looking like this one.  It's been just too wet to enjoy the car.

I'd give Henry my money first!

Me too, Bill. Me too.

An IM is still a kit car which will burn to the ground just as quickly as a Vintage. But for 3x the cost

/stirring pot

C'mon Christian.  A kit car comes in a box with glue, and you put it together following the instructions...

And a Corvette burns nicely too.

Methinks Christian just stuck a firecracker in an ant mound and sat back to see what came out. 

You ever seen a fully engulfed Lincoln? 

86K now and 6 days left, I wonder if it'll hit 100?

And we call this the Madness?

Does this come with a flat of petunias?

Lane:

I'm with you. I guess my sense of the value of things isn't in line with the bidder on this. But then, maybe I'm just cheap.

Also, an e-bay bid is just that. It doesn't mean that when this is over that the seller can actually close the deal, although I wish him/her the best. 

If I wanted a trophy for my "collection" I might buy this and pour a ton of money into it to bring it back (I don't have a collection by the way). Park it, stare at it, and drink an occasional glass of Grange while sitting in the front seat imagining what it would be like to drive it. Then, I'd wait for the market to outpace the investment and consider selling it for a profit. I should live so long!

I'd more likely call a small company in Canada and have them build me a bespoke 911 powered and suspended replica for less money than it will cost to bring this car back and drive the daylights out of it and live with any depreciation. I'd still drink the Grange.

Different strokes and different values!

To me, a kit car brings to mind one that is purchased in pieces, then assembled in one's garage. A manufactured car is such as one produced by IM, Beck, Vintage Spyder, Fibersteel, etc., coming completely assembled at the manufacturing facility. Such cars are constructed in a similar manner as Rolls Royces in England....by hand and one-at-a-time. I don't hear Rolls Royces being called "kit cars," so why does this myth persist about those manufactured cars we drive?

I drive a replica, but it's not a "kit," as described by so many who are ignorant about what a "kit" car is. Regardless of where or who built these cars, they should not be snubbed, but they should certainly be described accurately for what they are, not by some low-info critic who thinks they should be negatively criticized merely because they are not "real." 

Barry:

That really captures the facts. A kit car is a custom replica built by an individual(s) on their own. VS, JPS, SAS, IM, Beck, Carrera are professional coach builders who fabricate custom replicas in factory settings.  

Both types of replicas can be outstanding in their own right, subject to the tastes of the owners. 

Far from being an affront to the originals, many of our cars are tributes to the engineering and styling of the originals, and in some cases, offer improvements over them based on technologies and advances not available when they were manufactured. That should be applauded, not ridiculed.

I think what drives some real Porsche owners nuts is that they see replicas as diluting or diminishing the value of the brand. Best answer, buy one of each.

LOL! 

As for the term 'kit car', I prefer to call a car that is a 'copy of a real' car, but built by a professional company,  a 'tribute car'.

There.  Now there's another term we can argue about.

15 years ago, when I first started coming down with this illness, a guy could buy a decent original speedster for $50K range money. A rat could be had for $30K.

Replicas at that time were running about 30% less than they are now. Nice used cars went for less than $15K, and new Vintages were about $20K... everything else kind of went from there.

Originals are now closing in on $200K. A 4-cam engine is worth at least that much. This car (one that would have gone to a scrap yard 15 years ago, will bring close to $100K. If I'd have known then what I know now, I'd have avoided 2 bubbles and 15 years of treading water in the stock market and bought every 356 I could find. I'd be retired by now. As an aside-- I'd like that.

The point? Every single time somebody starts harping about the relative value of this or that, or whether or not somebody overpaid by 50 cents, I snigger a little inside. How do ANY of us know what the market will do? Could anybody have predicted a scrap-metal husk of an old speedster best used as a planter bringing bids north of $85K? 10 years ago, I could've bought "A" coupes for $5K all day long. Perhaps I should have, but I didn't.

I didn't buy my replica because I thought it would give me a better return on investment than some other thing-- I bought it because I wanted it. This is the thing I do for me-- not for other people, not because it's an appreciating asset, not even because it make sense. I own it because it's what I want. I couldn't care less what other people think of it. I love the stupid thing.

There are thousands of cars "better" than mine. I'm nothing special behind the wheel-- I'm a ham-fisted old pipefitter, but I can wring most of what's in my car out of it. Try that with a new 991, or C7. Unless your name is Walter Rohrl, the car might be (just a tad) better than you are. I can work on my car, improve my car, and cut up my dash pretending it's a P15 cockpit if I want. Conversely, I can't even figure out how to touch the spark-plugs in a Cayman. "Personalizing" a new Porsche just means throwing money at the factory for the goo-gaws they want to sell you. There's not much opportunity for coloring outside the lines there.

The idea of a replica (for me anyhow), is not to try to ape a "real" 356 for less money (as somebody posted in another thread). The idea is to enjoy what I've got, in it's own right.

Correction Stan, you're not an "old pipefitter", you're a pipefitter. I'm old, but not a pipefitter.

Oh ya, that "kit car" thing is the one that always bothers me...I always state mine is made in sleepy little northern Indiana town by competent people...definitely not me!

Like most of us, I make compromises on a daily basis.  I still work hard with the "future" in mind, although my future is a lot different than it was 20, or 30, 40, or even 50 years ago.  Family always comes first, and my work life and investment strategy has revolved around that.  Well, that's the Reader's Digest version, anyway.

I do have one tiny portion of my life that's all mine, and that's my replica.  No committees, no conferences, no long-involved "do I, or don't I" gnashing of teeth.  I do the research, read and listen to others who know more than I do (LOTS of folks), and make a buying decision based on what I want, not what I need.  I want to go fast, be somewhat safe, and not get stranded on the side of the road.

In my case, I like fast cars, fast boats, and fast women.  One out of three works for me.

That's it. It's AMAZING to me how many guys take some other tack on this.

I agree. I built and modify my car because it suits me, not to please anyone else, ever! I saw a Spyder in a magazine when I was 20, and knew I would have one someday. It has nothing to do with any perceived or resale value.

I've always hated the term "kit car". It is derogatory. Replicar or hand-crafted are much better. 

I have the same story and view  I also saw it in a magazine but even younger

Danny:

I agree that the term kit car has become a form of derision, and just isn't an accurate depiction of where much of the hobby has evolved. It would be interesting to know how many kits have been purchased as opposed to finished cars or rollers. 

I'd take a new IM over this any day.  For that matter, if someone were going to hand me the keys to a showroom restored 356 and a new IM, I'd rather have the IM (if money were no object).  It's just a flat out better car.  To think that it's not is basically to say that automotive technology hasn't gone anywhere in the last 60 years.

Also, keep in mind that these are just bids.  They could be real, but they could also be the seller upping the price or someone bidding that has no intention of buying it.  You never know.

But Jim... a fast woman could definitely leave you stranded on the side of the road - possibly without your wallet or your clothes.

I have a friend who had an original '56, fairly rare and appraised for $300K. He had an IM built to match it because his insurance company didn't want him driving it any more. He had more fun with the Intermeccanica and it handled much better so he sold it and at auction it went for a crazy price so he had them build a second one for his wife so they didn't fight over who got to drive all the time.

Wasn't Kit (t) Car only in Knight Rider?

who meee?????

Crazy, bidding is up to $86K!

-=theron

I dunno, the more I think about it...

1.  Buy Barn Find 356 Speedster for $86k

2.  $50k in restoration (maybe on the low side, I really have no idea)

3.  Sell for $200k

4.  Profit!!

Now if only I had $136k lying around.  Maybe I'll check the couch cushions.

The kind of projects that you get into is directly proportional to your means. If I had that kind of money I would be bidding on that car too! The end result is the real deal and not an Elvis impersonator. Sure would be cool if Elvis was restored. Go ahead laugh I don't care. King of rock man so don't even dis Elvis.

Elvis left the building a long time ago...and he ain't comin' back.

gtolio - I think you need to at least double your restoration estimate, possible more.  Since it doesn't have the original engine (or any engine, for that matter) your eventual return will likely be reduced.  I see this one as kind of hard to make a profit on.

Actually, Bob, Elvis is alive and well and living in L.A. And working as a private investigator. Incognito, of course:

http://www.amazon.com/Elvis-Ha...as+left+the+building

Probably true.  I would imagine that it really depends on labor.  If someone or a shop who does all their own work buys it, it will be vastly different than if someone is paid to restore it.  I would imagine that the buyer will be the former case.  Then we are just talking about the cost of parts (which is still probably at least $50k+).

Plus, what if the market changes on these cars?  Somebody could really be left holding the bag.  If I was investing in these, I'd be selling right now, not buying.  I think they're at their peak value.