1979 pan based Intermeccanica on BAT

It presents well, but (and I'm not disparaging) it's a gel-coat car with rusty floorpans and a top that "needs restoration" (per the ad). It's got a 1776 with Kads, and a cool 901 5-speed. Everything else is pretty basic (vinyl seats, 4-lug wheels, etc.).

I have no idea how BaT selects cars, as they have turned down cars from members here that were nicer than this one. I'd happily own it, but this car is about the same as the one David Stroud bought in Idaho a few years ago for less than $10K. Pricing has gone nuts since then, but based on the bidding so far - this one will not be a "deal" for anybody. Such is the power of BaT.   

So true, they have gone to the stratosphere and are claiming it is of heritage quality. 

It's got a 2006 Speedsters meets Spyders badge on the engine lid grille.

Wow....  That's worth a grand or two, right there!

Hope he gets a good price for it.  (The car.  Including the badge - there are only 52 of those badges out there.)

The five speed though. 

901 5 speed no less.

Stan Galat posted:

It presents well, but (and I'm not disparaging) it's a gel-coat car with rusty floorpans and a top that "needs restoration" (per the ad). It's got a 1776 with Kads, and a cool 901 5-speed. Everything else is pretty basic (vinyl seats, 4-lug wheels, etc.).

I have no idea how BaT selects cars, as they have turned down cars from members here that were nicer than this one. I'd happily own it, but this car is about the same as the one David Stroud bought in Idaho a few years ago for less than $10K. Pricing has gone nuts since then, but based on the bidding so far - this one will not be a "deal" for anybody. Such is the power of BaT.   

They turned down my IM6....they were jerking me around on "reserve", etc. I have spoken to a half dozen guys who have had similar BAT issues. METHINX along with them that they attempt to push the aircooled market to their own group of buyers.

Just approaches the ridiculous that a relatively "rare" AND "well done/sorted" IM6 would appear less desirable than some of those presently on BAT? Not complaining but would have/could have been an interesting bidding to watch.

BE SAFE

Some people sing BaT's praises and others I've known have had similar negative experiences.  It probably partially depends on who reviews the submission and what all they have listed at the time.

Banzai you should post this on this IM auction just to give a wake up call to that group. 

I do suspect there are many who are in colusion on there... just saying.

IaM-Ray posted:

Banzai you should post this on this IM auction just to give a wake up call to that group. 

I do suspect there are many who are in colusion on there... just saying.

They HAVE DISCRETION over posts! they will CLEARLY not have it! I dont want to be critical of one man's treasure but I've seen some real "suspect" cars, some that should be on a USED CAR LOT(just a few:LOL), on BAT auctions. What they need is a couple of SMART "SOC" guys to start a COMPETITION AUCTION HOUSE.....seems simple enough?  

Folks post their stuff: BAT takes "no responsibility for sellers reliability" and quickly takes their 10%(with ceiling). Heck, all you need is a creative website designer and a quality detailed business model similar to theirs. They have NO LIABILITY/NO EXPOSURE.....

To put it simply: THEY SUCK

Maybe Slewbay will pick up their socks

Allow me to share BAT format, you fill out the online questionaire then they contact you telling you the way THEY value it.  I submitted  a very nice show quality dune buggy at reasonable $15k. BAT emails back stating a measly $9k or no reserve is the only way they would accept it.  Two days later I got the $15k and can sell another four like dune buggy's .

Felt like your arm was torqued behind your back?  Well I would have walked as well. 

IaM-Ray posted:

Felt like your arm was torqued behind your back?  Well I would have walked as well. 

Yeah I did, BAT is the place for the elite or one off's  and I guess they didn't want my listing money. I was going to reply to them with a "BS jpeg" but thought that might stir then=m up a bit too much.

@Alan Merklin wrote- "I was going to reply to them with a "BS jpeg" but thought that might stir then=m up a bit too much." 

While you're probably right, it would have been funny though!

"What they need is a couple of SMART "SOC" guys to start a COMPETITION AUCTION HOUSE.....seems simple enough?" - @Banzai Pipeline

Where the real money would be made in that scheme would be to "charge" auction respondents $1 per comment! 

I had registered when I was looking to buy something but I am in the process of deregistration. 

I had registered when I was looking to buy something but I am in the process of deregistration. 

Never mind bring a trailer.  Bring more cash. I’ve seen more tarted up dogs of early 911/912 sell there for ridiculous money. Last week a barn find 911s in purple sold for 104k yet a mint one didn’t meet reserve. It is quite a bizzare. 

BIZZARREEE indeed!  They are patently manipulating the market for certain sellers and buyers to suit their dollar interests. It is not that difficult to do.....and they ARE doing it on a daily basis...

For them to tell me that my IM6 does not necessarily meet their parameters(?)  approaches the ridiculous.....along with their suggestions about reserves/values and what not.

THEY SUCK

Back on Wall Street these guys would be bagged for “pumping and dumping”.  It’s kind of how I view the whole auction house thing. Of course they want the highest price. They are banging the buyer and the seller more than 10 percent. 

BAT lost their way a couple of years back. Kind of sad.  I guess the founder is making a pretty good living with it thought.  From what I've heard it kind of stops there. Others who work for him are kind of on the outside looking in with that regard.

Neat site. I respect the vision. I wish I could sell my Speedster or Mini on there for the prices they seem to get on odd ball cars. 

I'd really like to hear some of you in more detail about your experiences or analyses of BaT. I've been following the auctions there for several years (paying particular attention to fake Spyders--wink wink) and have not noticed anything amiss. To me, so far, it looks like the cars sell for good money, buyers occasionally get sweet deals (as with an older Beck last week that went under $30k), but in general the market seems to be similar on BaT to what it is elsewhere.

I also know a little bit about various '60s muscle cars and LBCs and my observations of those auctions have not left me thinking anything was amiss.

Those who think they fix auctions, or put their thumbs on the scale—how? Or, anyway, what did you observe to give you that impression?

DM me if you don't want to go public. I consider this discussion high priority, and I'm keen to be schooled.

SOLD   20K

And no not to me!

PaulEnvemo posted:

Back on Wall Street these guys would be bagged for “pumping and dumping”.  It’s kind of how I view the whole auction house thing. Of course they want the highest price. They are banging the buyer and the seller more than 10 percent. 

kinda like Barrett-Jackson scheme, no reserve either, thats sketchy to me..at least Mecum U can set a reserve..

barncobob posted:

PaulEnvemo posted:

Back on Wall Street these guys would be bagged for “pumping and dumping”.  It’s kind of how I view the whole auction house thing. Of course they want the highest price. They are banging the buyer and the seller more than 10 percent. 

kinda like Barrett-Jackson scheme, no reserve either, thats sketchy to me..at least Mecum U can set a reserve..

They will let you put a reserve. 

That IM was pretty well bought, I think. And someone piped in just after saying they submitted a higher bid that didn't go through.

BJ charges sellers 8% no reserve,,,,reserve cars cost 12%    50% increase

IM's come in different flavours.

IM's early units in California. Side curtains

IM's early Vancouver,   then, IM 1984 on full frame no pan Roadster/ Roll up windows.

IM's AC,  or IM's 900 series front end, Audi, Subie, and IM-6 cyl P Roll up windows.

Ed, In my mind I would value a 30 year old car differently.  

First I would add up all the options it had, engine, tranny etc, then things to be done to bring it to a reasonable condition, not necessarily to complete redone, and then take that from the price I would think a 30 year old car should bring.  Hence most times I stay away from them as I know they are a money pit.  

I would be interested in @Alan Merklin's thoughts on this one. 

I'm going by "run of the mill driver quality Speedster replica" plus $6,000 for the 5-speed. Of course they are all money pits.

I suppose it was well bought at 20k. Not a deal but not horrible...I guess the IM name adds a little more to it because as we know there really isn’t much of any difference between this and a CMC or fiberfab. This appears to be one of the IM kits and not an early in house build. (4 lug wheels, no carrozzeria IM emblem on right front fender)  I am interested on how they get the 901 5 speed to work in the VW pan given the difference in height of the input shaft. Certainly a premium for the 5 speed is warranted. 

IaM-Ray posted:

IM's come in different flavours.

IM's early units in California. Side curtains

IM's early Vancouver,   then, IM 1984 on full frame no pan Roadster/ Roll up windows.

IM's AC,  or IM's 900 series front end, Audi, Subie, and IM-6 cyl P Roll up windows.

Ed, In my mind I would value a 30 year old car differently.  

First I would add up all the options it had, engine, tranny etc, then things to be done to bring it to a reasonable condition, not necessarily to complete redone, and then take that from the price I would think a 30 year old car should bring.  Hence most times I stay away from them as I know they are a money pit.  

I would be interested in @Alan Merklin's thoughts on this one. 

The early VW pan based IM has additional body to chassis structural bracing etc. The fiberglass body thickness is somewhat heavier. The bumpers are mounted with composite blocks instead of the metal brackets.  They also have side curtains too but there is something about the older IM quality that  stands out.  IMHO the older non restored pan based IM's are worth about 20% more than a CMC -FF built car because of the IM name.  We have all seen the very nice pan based IM's value into the mid $30's especially for the somewhat rare Carrozzeria badged speedsters.

barncobob posted:

PaulEnvemo posted:

Back on Wall Street these guys would be bagged for “pumping and dumping”.  It’s kind of how I view the whole auction house thing. Of course they want the highest price. They are banging the buyer and the seller more than 10 percent. 

kinda like Barrett-Jackson scheme, no reserve either, thats sketchy to me..at least Mecum U can set a reserve..

BJ pushes the No Reserve because they want everyone that comes there to buy a car to know that if their bid is highest the car is selling. I think it’s harder on sellers to push the No Reserve because if the money isn’t there your car may sell for much less than you want.  The reserve is a safety net for sellers, especially at the highest prices some of these cars command. 

Sold $20k, I would say someone got a bargain. Another $10k and you will have a very nice car. 

PaulEnvemo posted:

 I am interested on how they get the 901 5 speed to work in the VW pan given the difference in height of the input shaft. Certainly a premium for the 5 speed is warranted. 

The tunnels can be cut (and maybe re-gusseted?) at the back end to accommodate the lower input shaft. I think there is also some hogging out of the space between the frame horns so maybe there's no re-welding or gusseting. Then there's a hammer. Also the shifter mods....

Here's the Rancho guy describing all that's required.

Just to clarify, we're talking about the gear selector shaft, not the transmission input shaft. Trans input shaft is in the middle of the bellhousing. On a 901 and 915 trans is the gear selector higher on the front of the transmission or lower than a VW trans? I do know the tunnel needs a trim because the 901/915 is wider. Both cars have the torsion housing in approximately the same location.

Correct. Talking about the hockey stick shaft. Lower on the 901 box.