1981 Intermeccanica + spare cash or new Beck?

More details about both please.....but in the end, I'm going to tell you to get the Beck :-)

If it was a later IM with a tube frame and roll-up windows it might be a more difficult choice.  As it is, I'm with Tom.  Then again, neither of us are exactly impartial 

That's interesting! The IM has a tonne of original parts but there is no reason that I can't swap them over. I'd probably upgrade the Beck engine immediately so that I can sell the existing one as "new". Here's some points I thought about:

 

1. The IM has 5 stud wheels like original. The Beck has 4 stud.

2. The IM doesn't feel like it would take much more power without serious mods.

3. I haven't driven the Beck. It is new and unregistered.

4. The beck has a 1600 single carb so I am guessing 40hp? But it does have a great gearbox for cruising.

5. The IM looks, feels, and is old.

6. My aim is a Speedster with approx. 120 BHP that will cruise safely at 75mph.

 

 

Will get some pics

A lot might depend on what kind of driving you like to do, how much $$ you care to invest and how handy / enthusiastic you are about working on your own car. Likely there's no clear answer to your question. On the bottom end of the scale, I have about the same car as yours...older IM and I stuck a used Soob engine in it, kept the same tranny as it came with and put 40,000 some odd miles on it over the last 3.5 years. I still have only $12,000 in it total. You have a great range of choices and it might be fair to say that each is a compromise of some sort. You'll have fun though...no doubt about that.

Can the VW Pan IM ever handle as well as a sorted Beck? I am selling my mint 964 for extra funds. I bought the IM in bits to see if I could live with a Speedster. Now I find that I can't live without one

If it was me I'd keep the old IM & make it my own. But I like that sort of work & also have no money.

 

Curious about a couple claims and aims expressed above:

 

2. The IM doesn't feel like it would take much more power without serious mods.

 

6. My aim is a Speedster with approx. 120 BHP that will cruise safely at 75mph.

 

So, re #2, what feels wrong about the IM? There are several pan-based VWs running around with a lot more than 120 hp and the "serious mods" required usually amount to front disks, bigger front sway bar/bolt-on rear camber compensator (for swingers), shocks, new ball joints or king pins and new tie rod ends. That and, in some cars, set the front beam spring rate correct by taking a few leaves out.

 

These mods are easy to do at home and should result in a car that handles pretty good. 

 

As for #6: You are going to be building an engine anyway. Stroud has shown the way to a cheap and reliable 140 horses and I'm struggling with the same basic concept in my TD. If I had a Porsche replica my first choice would be air-cooled, and it's apparent that CB Performance makes a righteous street Type 1 for healthy--but not insane--money. BUT--and this is crucial--if your aim is a car that cruises "safely at 75 mph" you need maybe 80 horses, not 120. My TD with all of 50 (really maybe 42) horsepower cruised at 70 all day, for several days. Cruising on the highway really doesn't require power. What requires power is drag racing, hill climbing, burnout competitions, drifting, etc. If you're not planning on doing any of those things, then your power "needs" are probably less than you imagine.

Great points above! Some other things to consider-

Is the IM swingaxle or irs in the rear? (I'll give a pic below) How many miles are on it? Some new shocks and sway-bars (and camber compensator if it's swing) would probably go a long way to making it feel a little better. What size tires are on it? The new 1600 will produce about 50hp, and a 2 liter in the 120-140hp range with a killer low end/midrange (where you'll spend the majority of your time in when on the street) will run 5-$6,000 turnkey.

 

At what rpm does the IM cruise at when at 75mph? Does it wander a bit on the highway? It probably needs caster shims under the bottom tube of the front suspension to feel safer at speed. Does the Beck come with the front beam bolted or welded in place? Do you know (or can you find out) what gears are in the trans of the Beck, and what size tires are on it? Either transaxle will probably require upgrades to handle the power increase; you'll get away with it for "awhile", but sooner or later a heavy foot will do damage, so figure having the transaxle gone through, whichever car you choose. As mentioned, it depends on how much you want to do yourself and how much money you have..

 

And the pic I promised: swingaxle on one side, irs on the other-

 

And don't listen to Ed- More hp is better!!!!Hahahahaha!!!!

(my apologies Ed; I couldn't resist!)

 

 

 

Ron, when you wake up show Dom what Intermeccanica did to your pan based car.   

Please flip the top tensioner - I hate saggy tops. (Looks like it just rained - as usual in UK). $800 USD and front end is completely overhauled with disc brakes, sway bar, adjustable beam or lowered spindles, new ball joints/tie rods and tighened up steering box.  Dual carbs, 1.25:1 rockers and A1 exhaust is good for maybe 15hp if engine is not tired and worn out. Oh, and keep the 964 since you saved all that $$$.

Thanks for all the feedback! The Beck is a 2012 model and is obviously the absolute base model. The dealer doesn't seem that clued up on it but it does have the gearbox designed for cruising.

Mine has 24K miles. It was off the road for 20 years so is completely solid. No rust.

1. I do love the IM but the panels aren't a perfect fit, there are a few chips here and there etc. I think the boot lid may be off a different brand.

2. It is IRS. Keep the suggestions coming. It might be a keeper with some mods. It doesn't wander and it will cruise at 70 mph but feels close to its limit.

3. Gearbox; 3000 revs = approx. 55 MPH so I want a better one.

4. Handling is pure old Beetle IRS I guess. It's all twisty country roads here.

5. I like the idea of 120 BHP just in case I need to cruise a bit faster

6. The IM is tatty inside, but in a nice sort of way. Patina

7. There is no heating system in the Beck and the weather isn’t great here.

 

Saw your post Wolfgang as I was writing this. I guess I need to find a classic VW Specialist in North Wales and yep ... it sure rains a lot J. I’ll take a look at those improvements that you mention. She does actually brake okay. Not sure that she even has a top tensioner

 

Edsnova I am 50/50 at the moment. I need to decide before I spend anymore on the IM, and I need more knowledge about what I can do to the IM. Have spent this morning looking for a reasonably local classic VW specialist - surprised to find nothing nearby. Reluctant to do the mechanicals myself.

"Air-cooled VWs: turning owners into reluctant mechanics for 80 years"

But so many of those cars are a mess because so many owners really didn't know what they were doing...

I've probably got the most expensive pan based 356 replica in the world.

What can I say, I went into my restoration with my heart, not my head.

 

As far as handling goes, I'm very happy with the way my car handles, and this is from a guy who owned a track prepped Miata.  Mind you, I've put a lot of time and money into getting my suspension setup right.

Tube or pan....it doesn't matter once that heavy rear end starts coming around.

 

 

What he meant to say is: he probably has the nicest pan-based replica in the world. He went into the restoration with his heart, and what he got was all soul.

 

Really.

 I haved owned all air cooled Porsche derivatives,miatas,sold my last Porsche-(a964),for a beck and have never looked back.i love it to death but it is a far cry from the driving perfection of the 964.i guess it all comes down to what your looking for in a car.i have raced full blown rsr's and still have never gotten a better seg than I get from my speedy

I've probably got the worst unrestored one It arrived in boxes with no interior. Changing gear is like pushing a big spoon around a can of mushy peas, and it judders at times. As soon as I got it running the dynamo disintegrated. But ... I love the damn thing . Thinking about it I guess I just want her to be steady and safe at 90 mph absolute max with better handling on the wild twisty roads here. She will never be perfect I guess but I really do like her faded glory.

Will be on the phone to "Manchester Air Cooled" on Monday. It's about 90 miles away. Will see what they can do for her. I haven't buzzed so much off a car since my old Austin Healey when I was a teen. Back to basics for me. I never drive the 964 so the extra garage space will be handy if I need to learn a few tricks.

back to basics is exactly what i said.the thrill of that first go-cart ride as a kid!

Dom, change your motor mounts and your shifter bushing, that should help both issues.

Thanks DannyP, I will add those to the list!

Hello Ron,

 

I recently acquired a nice '56 Pan Based IM Carrera Speedster and saw the pics of your IM. What seats do you have in your car and where did you obtain the roll bar from? Thanks! 

Both were from Henry at Intermeccanica.  The seats are his speedster model with headrests added.

Thanks Ron, will check with Henry to get details. Appreciate the prompt follow up!