2.0 liter 4-bangers

Looking for comments about why supercharger AND turbo charger.  And ideas about how much oomph one can really extract from 2.0 liters of displacement.  Without nitro.  And the Honda Accord Sport, like ALL of its cars, uses regular gas.  

I believe the supercharger does the lower end of the rpm range where the turbo lag area occurs and when the turbo kicks in so to speak the supercharger thus shuts down .  That has been my perception of the twin setup. 

A supercharger gives instantaneous power, right off idle, but creates a parasitic drag (which hurts fuel efficiency). A turbocharger (especially one big enough to develop real boost) takes a while to spool up and produce pressure- but it’s harnessing what would be wasted energy, so it’s more efficient.

It’s my understanding that Volvo uses the supercharger to fill in the “turbo lag”, before it electronically decouples and allows the turbo to take over providing boost.

How much power as possible? I think VW drag-racers like Pat Downs are getting more than 400 hp out of air-cooled engines, and Fast and Furious-type “ricers” used to routinely double that from boosted and NOS-ed Mitsubishis and Hondas, but I doubt that is what you are really asking. 

The Mercedes AMG 2.0L inline-4 turbo puts out 375 hp @ 6,000 rpm.  Remember just a short few years back it took a 5.0L engine to do that.  I still don't see the old "burnouts" though - maybe its the better tires?  Surprised to see 2.0L engines in SUVs - can't see them towing anything.

They'll tow. Boost works.

One of the conceptual problems is that many of us, including me of course, are dinosaurs, who came of age when cars were comparatively simple.  In addition, we were influenced by the older guys of the time, whoever they were: dads, brothers, cousins, friends of friends, etc.  whose knowledge reached WAAAAY back.

When I was seventeen, in 1962, my dad bought his first and only new car, a 62 Dodge 4 door coupe with push button automatic transmission.  Dad owned a bar, and his customers kept telling him that these new automatic transmissions were the devil's spawn, and the crooks at the transmission repair shop were sharpening their knives in anticipation of Dad's first tranny repair.

Is there a correlation between then and now?  Of course.  Forced induction can seem like a flash in the pan, like a carnival barker, sleight of hand, or a 3 card monty game on the corner.  But, of course, it's not.  With higher fuel prices and federal mileage mandates a reality, but with a sophisticated audience that demands performance, forced induction is here to stay.

More parts, additional interface, more electronics and sensors, laptops for tuning, and the list goes on.  I love to watch car shows on television, but it's rare to see carburetors on a crate engine these days.  We can do it, fellow dinosaurs.  Hell, we're typing, sorry keyboarding, on 'puters, aren't we?  Of course, few of us can rebuild a turbo or supercharger, and that's part of the resentment, isn't it?

Somewhere down the line, guys who can tune Weber carbs will be as relevant as guys who repair steam engines and wooden-spoke wheels.  We all have our own line in the sand as to what we will buy/build/repair/drive.  For some, it's only air-cooled.  For others, Subi makes sense.  We're not all old coots like me, but even the younger guys get wistful about car style and engines from the past.  Our replicas give us the chance to follow whatever path feels most comfortable, and I'm glad we're not all marching to the same drummer.

WOLFGANG posted:

...I still don't see the old "burnouts" though - maybe its the better tires?...

Maybe it's that tires don't cost 50 bucks any more.

@JIM KELLY   "...….who repair steam engines and wooden-spoke wheels"                      Be as it may I do know four guys in PA that still dabble:  Amish Tom still builds wooden wheels, Randy builds Stanley Steamer boilers,  suspensions & rack n' pinions ( yes they were on Steamers)  Otis that hammered and formed brass aluminum and sheet metal for the Steamers and other Brass era cars ...there was an artist. Lastly,  Daryl ( who has flown out to Leno's garage many times) still builds Stanley Mountain Wagons and Racers from the frame up but the demand has and interest has dwindled I'm lucky to have stood next to these last of the Craftsman for hours  watching in awe as they created their wares.  I missed my opportunity to be taught 15 years ago when Otis the sheet metal guy told me when his days were up his skill would die along with him.   I forget who I took over to  Daryl's Steamer shop place years ago I know one was Wild Bill Drayer can't recall who else.

As they say, Jim Kelly, it's a big tent. We all have out own little niche of what we like, don't like, and certainly what we can and can't do.

When I proposed rebuilding my own transmission I thought I had committed blasphemy with the reactions I got. A very simple 50 plus year old 4 speed manual. But what's inside is black magic to some. Same thing with blowers, turbos, and computers.

Turbos and superchargers are pretty simple. Been a while for me but I think computers are easy to work on long as you don't have to be soldering on the motherboard or modding the graphics card to mine bitcoins or something stupid like that?

But you start combinating all the above into one Speedster...? Now you have what you call a challenge, Duke. 

Stan Galat posted:

A supercharger gives instantaneous power, right off idle, but creates a parasitic drag (which hurts fuel efficiency). A turbocharger (especially one big enough to develop real boost) takes a while to spool up and produce pressure- but it’s harnessing what would be wasted energy, so it’s more efficient.

It’s my understanding that Volvo uses the supercharger to fill in the “turbo lag”, before it electronically decouples and allows the turbo to take over providing boost.

How much power as possible? I think VW drag-racers like Pat Downs are getting more than 400 hp out of air-cooled engines, and Fast and Furious-type “ricers” used to routinely double that from boosted and NOS-ed Mitsubishis and Hondas, but I doubt that is what you are really asking. 

405 hp and 320 ft lbs of torque and naturally aspirated.

Pat Downs is the man. 

I think someone touched on one of the basic tenets here: As the number of parts goes up, reliability (and by extension the ability of any simpleminded guy with a wrench to work on it) goes down.  I do worry about that.  But I do have a '50s era go cart that will allow me opportunity to fiddle and diddle.  Sometimes too much . . .

And yes I am terrified of manual transmission repair.  It is an irrational fear, since I have never tried one.  Hopefully will never have to, but if I do, i'll be finding my way up to NY, and buying lots of beer.

Turbo lag: have experienced that in some cars, but I am here to tell you that the new Accord 2.0T is very responsive.  You can feel it kicking in and it seems quite eager to please at any RPM.  I have no complaint.  I think the computer controls how/when it works, and if you really don't need it to tool around town it does not come much into play.  Helps mileage that way, I guess.