I have seen pics of the plumbing partially installed from the back to the front and am very pleased with the professional nature of the work. Henry went with professionally bent tubing to fit as opposed to the earlier prototype copper plumbing setups (Thanks John for being first!). When I get some better pictures I will post them.
I received some very nice fog lights(Marchal repros)from Mike Guthrie today. They will be on the car once I get them up to Henry during my threatened spring visit in April. The lights are the NLA repros but the cool thing is the internal reflector appears to be OEM and old based on the paper label. Thanks Mike for the ultra fast response to my offer.
My wife picked one up and tweaked the nipple on the lens saying, "Ah, those Frenchmen..." I did not ask any clarifying questions as I was rolling on the floor laughing.
Tomm
...another step closer to getting it on the road!! Coool!
That's kind of curious -- I thought a water-cooled engine generally meant giving up the back seat. I've only seen two or three Japanese engine conversions in person. Does that German 1.8 hang out to the rear, or is it significantly smaller in overall dimensions than the mid-mountable 2.5 Subaru?
Very interesting indeed. Very impressive.
Very interesting indeed. Very impressive.
The Tubaru has a chassis designed from the ground up in a mid-engined configuration. With this design, and not unlike a Spyder, the transaxle is behind the engine. The space required to do this pushes the engine forward far enough that the traditional rear seat space is not available. Therefore, there is no room for groceries, kids or dogs. What I gain is the rear trunk, small, but very handy for odds and ends, including the tonneau when the top is down.
Personally, I like the design. The car handles great and makes even a feckless tuner/driver like me look pretty good.
Hoss
Personally, I like the design. The car handles great and makes even a feckless tuner/driver like me look pretty good.
Hoss
As you all know from my first posts here in Nov of 2006, I visited SAS and test drove their vehicles. The feel is much more like a Boxster in the neutrality of the turning. The car really is a mid engine performer. For my own reasons of wanting a rear engine dynamic and the convenience of a VW1.8T easily accessable, I went with Henry's car. Nothing wrong with either approach except mine is better for me!
Tomm (in Helsinki today, love those 90 deg C saunas)
Tomm (in Helsinki today, love those 90 deg C saunas)
Cory,
The 1.8t does appear to put more of its bulk to the rear than a VW air cooled engine. Check out the photo I posted in my jan 11 message on this thread to get an idea.
When driving John's non turbo version of the same power plant at the IM BBQ last summer (with John's permission) I did some hard driving and could not tell any significant handling difficulties. I suspect teh appearance does not tell the actual weight distribution as our trannies are heavier and counterbalance some of the additional rear biased weight.
Time will tell.
Tomm (from Amsterdam & now on my way home)
The 1.8t does appear to put more of its bulk to the rear than a VW air cooled engine. Check out the photo I posted in my jan 11 message on this thread to get an idea.
When driving John's non turbo version of the same power plant at the IM BBQ last summer (with John's permission) I did some hard driving and could not tell any significant handling difficulties. I suspect teh appearance does not tell the actual weight distribution as our trannies are heavier and counterbalance some of the additional rear biased weight.
Time will tell.
Tomm (from Amsterdam & now on my way home)
Also with the IM the radiator weight and fluid in the radiator is all the way up front. That is significant in counter balancing the weight in back.
I wish I could have driven John's car to feel the difference and be able to report, but it didn't work out time schedule wise.
Maybe next time I'm in the area I will get a chance to drive the IM and report what I think on the handling difference, if any?
I also believe the dash and related weight is moved slightly forward on the IM, making up for the weight in back.
Also on the aircooled cars the battery was up front, I'm not sure if the watercooled IM's have the battery up front, but if they do, that would be a nice counterbalance also. My guess is that the average person could drive the IM or SAW and not really feel any big difference.
I wish I could have driven John's car to feel the difference and be able to report, but it didn't work out time schedule wise.
Maybe next time I'm in the area I will get a chance to drive the IM and report what I think on the handling difference, if any?
I also believe the dash and related weight is moved slightly forward on the IM, making up for the weight in back.
Also on the aircooled cars the battery was up front, I'm not sure if the watercooled IM's have the battery up front, but if they do, that would be a nice counterbalance also. My guess is that the average person could drive the IM or SAW and not really feel any big difference.
Steve, are you considering coming to Carlisle in May?
Steve wrote: "My guess is that the average person could drive the IM or SAW and not really feel any big difference."
I disagree. The IM's, including the watercooled cars, push when driven hard. Can you say that about the Subaru based cars?
Also, the watercooled VW engine is only slightly heavier than the aircooled engine so that certainly contributes to the similar handling with the IMs. And with the radiator up front, Steve is right, the watercooled cars are even better balanced.
I disagree. The IM's, including the watercooled cars, push when driven hard. Can you say that about the Subaru based cars?
Also, the watercooled VW engine is only slightly heavier than the aircooled engine so that certainly contributes to the similar handling with the IMs. And with the radiator up front, Steve is right, the watercooled cars are even better balanced.
On the SAS site front and rear balance w/5 speed trans as 46/54 that with radiator and battery in back. Any one know for the IM? John
Ron,
When I drove the SAW on twisty roads in TN, I thought it was neutral just as a mid engine should be. No push observed. I am far from an expert driver and perhaps if pushed to the limits, the car would exhibit some unbalance.
Here is my latest progress picture. We will be visiting Henry in April to see it first hand.
Tomm
When I drove the SAW on twisty roads in TN, I thought it was neutral just as a mid engine should be. No push observed. I am far from an expert driver and perhaps if pushed to the limits, the car would exhibit some unbalance.
Here is my latest progress picture. We will be visiting Henry in April to see it first hand.
Tomm
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I would really like to come to Carlisle this year. But it depends on work. I have used up all my vacation from the accident, so if I have to fly on that Friday I can't come. I also am just starting to recover financially.
Like Ron said, "when pushed hard" they push. I don't think the average person really pushes these cars that hard. Of course my vision is pretty limited since I live in Iowa. If the liquid cooled IM handles as well or better then the aircooled IM, then I don't think it would bother me in the slightest, but it may some people.
Like Ron said, "when pushed hard" they push. I don't think the average person really pushes these cars that hard. Of course my vision is pretty limited since I live in Iowa. If the liquid cooled IM handles as well or better then the aircooled IM, then I don't think it would bother me in the slightest, but it may some people.
John, The 46/54 SAS weight distribution is without anyone in front seats, so add maybe 300 pounds forward of the polar moment if two people are in the car. This would move the distribution closer to neutral, but I am told that the 50/50 point is difficult for average drivers to deal with.
What exactly do you mean when you talk about 'push'? Do you mean understeer or oversteer?
Ron
Ron
I thought we were talking about understeer. I dredged up this description on line and am posting it here as it matches my understanding:
Push/understeer feels like the steering column has suddenly transformed into rubber: You've got the wheel cranked left but the car isn't turning nearly as much as you'd like. In severe cases, it feels as if the steering wheel has snapped off: No matter how much you turn the wheel the car goes straight.
Loose/oversteer, to most highway drivers, feels much like hitting a tree or running into a ditch, because that's what their car does when it goes loose. A race driver battling a loose car feels what the outside rear tire is doing. Before the rear end steps out there's a lightness or, sometimes, shuddering in the outside rear tire: That's the tire saying, "Whoa, that's about all I can take!"
source: Mac Demere http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=104166
Push/understeer feels like the steering column has suddenly transformed into rubber: You've got the wheel cranked left but the car isn't turning nearly as much as you'd like. In severe cases, it feels as if the steering wheel has snapped off: No matter how much you turn the wheel the car goes straight.
Loose/oversteer, to most highway drivers, feels much like hitting a tree or running into a ditch, because that's what their car does when it goes loose. A race driver battling a loose car feels what the outside rear tire is doing. Before the rear end steps out there's a lightness or, sometimes, shuddering in the outside rear tire: That's the tire saying, "Whoa, that's about all I can take!"
source: Mac Demere http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Columns/articleId=104166
Steve, if you can't make it, you'll sure be missed. You're good company.
Tomm, it's been my experience that understeer is often over-corrected, resulting in trailing-throttle oversteer. Mid-mounts shouldn't have that much of a problem with it, if I understand their handling correctly.
Anybody with a rear-engined car has probably experienced it in a hard corner. You want to turn left, so you do. The car's so light in the front that you don't get any initial response and keep tracking in a straight line. Then, suddenly, something grabs and the car goes hard left. You take a violent turn in that direction, correct back right and add gas, resulting in a fishtail that snaps you in the other direction while the back end of your car goes to the left and you're facing right.
To get your tail lights behind you again, you have to add more gas and steer left again.
Pretty scary. Everybody should practice what to do in that event, before they're caught out in the twisties with no cell reception. It's nearly killed me once already, trying to keep up with Kelly Frazer. He could teach a class.
Tomm, it's been my experience that understeer is often over-corrected, resulting in trailing-throttle oversteer. Mid-mounts shouldn't have that much of a problem with it, if I understand their handling correctly.
Anybody with a rear-engined car has probably experienced it in a hard corner. You want to turn left, so you do. The car's so light in the front that you don't get any initial response and keep tracking in a straight line. Then, suddenly, something grabs and the car goes hard left. You take a violent turn in that direction, correct back right and add gas, resulting in a fishtail that snaps you in the other direction while the back end of your car goes to the left and you're facing right.
To get your tail lights behind you again, you have to add more gas and steer left again.
Pretty scary. Everybody should practice what to do in that event, before they're caught out in the twisties with no cell reception. It's nearly killed me once already, trying to keep up with Kelly Frazer. He could teach a class.
While blasting through some tight corners with my old 1970 VW 911 pickup I experience oversteer firsthand. It's one thing having a speedster's rear end start to come around, but a totally different (and really scary) experience to have the heavy (911 engine) rear end of a VW pickup try to swap ends.
Understeer, when you drive off the road head first screaming in terror looking thru the windshield at what you're going to hit.
Oversteer, when you drive off the road butt first screaming in terror looking in the rear view mirror at what you're going to hit.
angela
Oversteer, when you drive off the road butt first screaming in terror looking in the rear view mirror at what you're going to hit.
angela
"Understeer, when you drive off the road head first screaming in terror looking thru the windshield at what you're going to hit"
aka: Raby Type IV powered speedster heads for the corn before I had it dialed in ...... weeeeee !
aka: Raby Type IV powered speedster heads for the corn before I had it dialed in ...... weeeeee !
Progress report:
Body primered and in wet sanding next week prior to paint. Made final color choices. Question for those that know; Is Stayfast "G" superior to Stayfast and by how much?
Need: The wassermecannica has a pretty high performance 1.8T VW engine and the standard 6000 rpm tach falls a bit short in my estimation. Does anyone have a lead on an 8000 RPM tach which would match the 356 gauges?
Tomm
Body primered and in wet sanding next week prior to paint. Made final color choices. Question for those that know; Is Stayfast "G" superior to Stayfast and by how much?
Need: The wassermecannica has a pretty high performance 1.8T VW engine and the standard 6000 rpm tach falls a bit short in my estimation. Does anyone have a lead on an 8000 RPM tach which would match the 356 gauges?
Tomm
Tomm, I had my VDO gauge package made at North Hollywood speedometer. I picked the color backround,Ivory font, and backlit them with LED lights. You can choose whatever RPM cluster, speedo you desire. I also did a 904 Quad gauge set, which give you Fuel, oil pressure, temp, alternator, in one matched set. Go to their website. The difference in price from what Henry's standard gauge set cost, and the bump to a Custom VDO set, is really worth the additional 3-400. Go to my registry photos on this website to see them. Your car sounds it really coming along. Once its back from paint, things move along smartly.
Definitely North Hollywood. They can build a set that does more then you ever thought possible and future repair will be easy. Of course, do you really plan on taking it to the 8000rpm range?
I visited Henry and the IM gang today (4/7) and actually saw my car on the shop floor! The color is awesome! Porsche Nachtblau Pearl with a very deep clear coat over the almost iridescent pearl finish. The dove gray leather dash was in place so I could actually see the contrasting colors. They worked well. While there, the team of IM builders (craftsmen) were installing the final body touches such as engine compartment insulation, bumpers & guards, etc. The car goes into final mechanical assembly in about a week or so. After that, Henry and Kevin will work their magic on getting the 1.8T fired up and up to snuff. I inspected my 944 rear suspension and 911 front suspension, including monster drilled front rotors. Matt, Rick and Ron were all there so we compared notes. I won't steal Matt's thunder except to say WOW about his sled. Rick Davis' car is perfect in burnt orange and with 911 power. I got to test drive a car with identical suspension to mine but with a VW 2110 engine. I am satisfied the combination of 911 front and 944 rear with Bilsteins all round will be just fine.
Tomm
Tomm
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You guys sound like your having a ball. This is the time that really gets exciting. I heard Henry had the "boys" over. I wish I was there to enjoy it all with you. All can say is that all the anticipation, waiting, is WORTH it. I LOVE my ride. Its everything Henry said it would be and more. I can't wait to see Matt and you, Tom drive these puppies. You won't be able to stop grinning. There IS something better than SEX, and its in Henry's shop
More pictures next week I think.
Tomm
Tomm
Tomm, I wish I'd taken some pics of your car last Monday. I assumed you did some of your own but not so. I'll be more prudent next time I'm at IM. Your car looks beautiful, the color combo is spot on and the suspension setup is very neat. You are finally seeing light down at the far end of the tunnel.
Hi Tomm, I really like the contrasting colors. Now things will really progress quickly. I wont be making it to the BBQ this year. I sure hope your car will be up and running in time for the cruise. Good Luck!
Lookin' GOOOOD Tom!
Tomm -
It's been way too long since the last update on your car. I was getting used to seeing some new details or pics about every week or so, but it's been almost two months now. What's going on there???
It's been way too long since the last update on your car. I was getting used to seeing some new details or pics about every week or so, but it's been almost two months now. What's going on there???
Tom -
Having seen Howard's awesome 911-Speedy in person, I can imagine how cool YOUR car will look & perform! Do you take Quaaludes to handle the anticipation/anxiety of your car's delivery?!! I know I would need to...
Having seen Howard's awesome 911-Speedy in person, I can imagine how cool YOUR car will look & perform! Do you take Quaaludes to handle the anticipation/anxiety of your car's delivery?!! I know I would need to...
All,
Progress has been slow due to a few other cars ahead of me in the queue. I am hopeful that I am now at the 'head of the class' in Henry's shop and that progress will pick up. Since we last saw Jessica, the suspension has been mounted, the brakes installed with nice blue painted calipers, the interior has had lots of details added and most of the exterior lights, trim, bumpers and such have been installed.
The engine electricals are getting sorted this week and next with the target to have the engine and tranny mounted and the car up on the lift for initial testing by next Friday.
Here is a nice pic of the rear brakes. Oh, no 'ludes needed. Henry keeps me well informed and never makes empty promises. Communications remains the best part of a good business relationship IMHO.
Cheers,
Tomm
Progress has been slow due to a few other cars ahead of me in the queue. I am hopeful that I am now at the 'head of the class' in Henry's shop and that progress will pick up. Since we last saw Jessica, the suspension has been mounted, the brakes installed with nice blue painted calipers, the interior has had lots of details added and most of the exterior lights, trim, bumpers and such have been installed.
The engine electricals are getting sorted this week and next with the target to have the engine and tranny mounted and the car up on the lift for initial testing by next Friday.
Here is a nice pic of the rear brakes. Oh, no 'ludes needed. Henry keeps me well informed and never makes empty promises. Communications remains the best part of a good business relationship IMHO.
Cheers,
Tomm
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Hi Tomm, With Stoich's 911/356 out the door, all attention should be on you. Car looks great, wonderful colors, can't wait to see it progress. Had to drive my 11yr old to a "dance" tonight. He asked me to take " La Bomba". Temps in the low 70's, top down, tunes up. NO disappointments. Saw many of the faithful at Carlisle, Matt and I had a great time. Henry used the car for display and got great feedback. Car photographed for Kit Car and Excellence mags. We'll see if it makes the cut. Hello to everyone.....Tomm, it WILL be worth the wait!
All,
Here are some other views which show the color combination off. I really love how the gray and blue work together.
Can't wait to see the newly painted wheels on the beast. Oh, and the seats are the same gray but with midnight blue piping. The carpets are blue/gray with navy edging.
Thanks for the kind words Howard, I will soon be enjoying my ride as well. Already planning a more exotic turbo setup (can you say liquid intercooler?) and have found a local tuning shop with dyno...heh, heh, heh!
Tomm
Here are some other views which show the color combination off. I really love how the gray and blue work together.
Can't wait to see the newly painted wheels on the beast. Oh, and the seats are the same gray but with midnight blue piping. The carpets are blue/gray with navy edging.
Thanks for the kind words Howard, I will soon be enjoying my ride as well. Already planning a more exotic turbo setup (can you say liquid intercooler?) and have found a local tuning shop with dyno...heh, heh, heh!
Tomm
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Tomm, I was wondering if you ever got some shots of the radiator placement and of the plumbing front to rear. I'm interested as I have a similar project and need some ideas.
Terry,
No pics yet. When complete, I will document the plumbing better. What I can tell you is that Henry went all out with custom bent pipe the length of the car and that the radiator is tucked up behind the front and raked back at a 45 degree (approx) angle.
Tomm
No pics yet. When complete, I will document the plumbing better. What I can tell you is that Henry went all out with custom bent pipe the length of the car and that the radiator is tucked up behind the front and raked back at a 45 degree (approx) angle.
Tomm
Tomm,
I believe I found pics of your radiator on the IM site. I'm wondering if that's going to be a big enough radiator for a turbo engine. I have a 2.0 Saab Turbo mid engine powered Speedy with the stock turbo radiator(3 tube) mounted 45 degrees in the rear under the deck lid with twin fans and it runs 225 degrees on 90 degree days. It's a pretty small space up front for much of a radiator but maybe yours will be fine. Any idea what kind of radiator it is? Your cars looking awesome.
I believe I found pics of your radiator on the IM site. I'm wondering if that's going to be a big enough radiator for a turbo engine. I have a 2.0 Saab Turbo mid engine powered Speedy with the stock turbo radiator(3 tube) mounted 45 degrees in the rear under the deck lid with twin fans and it runs 225 degrees on 90 degree days. It's a pretty small space up front for much of a radiator but maybe yours will be fine. Any idea what kind of radiator it is? Your cars looking awesome.
