Very nice chronicle of our trip. Thanks Lane!
Thanks for letting many of us live through your pic trips
Awesome pics and great commentary! Thanks for posting!
Wow! Good for you guys.
I still think you should have disconnected 2 of Rich's 996's spark plug wires, Very unfair that he had a 6 cylinder advantage and the experience of age too.
https://www.motor1.com/news/17...-busted-148-porsche/
Why? He wasn't up front......
Great Review Lane........ Thanks....
Looks like you all had a blast! Glad the weather broke and it went so well.
Lots of photos on killboy.com, 129slayer.com, and us129photos.com(aka xtremesportsphotography.photoreflect.com)
We all look pretty good going through the Dragon.
WOLFGANG posted:I still think you should have disconnected 2 of Rich's 996's spark plug wires, Very unfair that he had a 6 cylinder advantage and the experience of age too.
https://www.motor1.com/news/17...-busted-148-porsche/
Some how I feel the "Little Old Lady" and I are related...... ATTITUDE.... 
On the Saturday Carlos tour, a slow civilian got in front of me and Rich. There was no way for us to pass and catch up with the group. It might be nice to build in a few more stops to allow the group to come back together again.
So, we missed the last part of the tour and found our way back to the hotel.
LeonChupp posted:WOLFGANG posted:I still think you should have disconnected 2 of Rich's 996's spark plug wires, Very unfair that he had a 6 cylinder advantage and the experience of age too.
https://www.motor1.com/news/17...-busted-148-porsche/
Some how I feel the "Little Old Lady" and I are related...... ATTITUDE....
here in CA she's holding the wrong finger up,,dementia or alzheimers i guess:}
@Michael McKelvey We waited at the bottom of E. Van Clayton Memorial Hwy at the intersection of 178 for a very long time. We even sent someone back up the road to look for youz guys. This was the next logical choice for a stop and wait.
You guys probably misread the map and took a right from where we came on Glady Fork. Fortunately, there was enough information on that map to get back to 215 if you went that way instead.
Michael McKelvey posted:On the Saturday Carlos tour, a slow civilian got in front of me and Rich. There was no way for us to pass and catch up with the group. It might be nice to build in a few more stops to allow the group to come back together again.
So, we missed the last part of the tour and found our way back to the hotel.
Kelly should have stayed left as well at the same point y'all turned right.
We waited at least 15-20 minutes Mike, and Tom went nearly all the way up the mountain looking for you. Then we headed into Brevard , had a beer, and went back to the ranch. Well, until Tom Bs car crapped out.
I didn't intend to blame anyone in my earlier comments. I appreciate all the efforts to link back up with us. I didn't know where I was on the map. We drove until we could get GPS to work and then headed back to the hotel. I was surprised to discover we were east of Maggie Valley. We went to Cherokee before returning to the hotel. We had a nice conversation with a German woman who is married to a Cherokee silversmith.
No blame taken. It's all good. BTW, Which way did the GPS take you?
Everyone had fun and there were minimal mechanical situations. Though, I didn't hear what eventually happened to Tom's car.
CG
He pushed it off of a cliff.
-OR-
The ERV picked it up and brought it back to the hotel. It was later transported, again via the ERV, to Pieter Van Rossum’s restoration shop where it will be repaired when parts are available - it might have already been fixed. Tom, who rode home with Stan and Jeannie, will fly back to pick it up.
Something in the right side rear wheel hub wore out/broke/gave way and was unable to transfer rotational motion to the wheel.
A fuse for the flux capacitor blew and a new 1 gigawatt fuse had to be ordered.
OK.
In stock
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Tom's car tore the splines out of an iron wide-5 rear hub. There is a (male) splined stub axle, which mates to a (female) splined hub. The whole arrangement is held together with a very large nut (look at your car, and you'll see it).
The splines in Tom's hub were completely gone by the end of the 3 day of hammering in the mountains. I'm unsure why this happened (there are several reasons it might), but the net effect was that the stub shaft was turning, but just spinning in the hub. Since Tom's car doesn't have a limited slip differential, this ended all forward progress.
It was fortuitous that Ron and Maddie had their trailer hooked up and ready to go, and that Pete had an open bay in his spacious MB restoration shop. I believe that Henry is sending parts to Pete, who will make the repair. Tom will somehow get the car home at that point.
It was really nice to have a community of people willing to help a member in need. It could have been any of us. The entire episode made me appreciate all of you even more.
Braaap fatigue.
Is Pete in Maggie Valley?
Stan Galat posted:Tom's car tore the splines out of an iron wide-5 rear hub. There is a (male) splined stub axle, which mates to a (female) splined hub. The whole arrangement is held together with a very large nut (look at your car, and you'll see it).
The splines in Tom's hub were completely gone by the end of the 3 day of hammering in the mountains. I'm unsure why this happened (there are several reasons it might), but the net effect was that the stub shaft was turning, but just spinning in the hub. Since Tom's car doesn't have a limited slip differential, this ended all forward progress.
It was fortuitous that Ron and Maddie had their trailer hooked up and ready to go, and that Pete had an open bay in his spacious MB restoration shop. I believe that Henry is sending parts to Pete, who will make the repair. Tom will somehow get the car home at that point.
It was really nice to have a community of people willing to help a member in need. It could have been any of us. The entire episode made me appreciate all of you even more.
I've heard of this happening before and was under the impression (been told? read it on this great interweb thingy?) that the axle nut not being torqued properly (217 fl. lbs. and then to the next cotter pin hole) is the cause. I don't know if the spline area of stock drums is flame hardened so it happens more with aftermarket parts or it's just as prevalent with stock stuff? Maybe the splines were machined incorrectly (the fit wasn't as tight) and/or the hub/disc assembly being substantially heavier than a stock drum (or type 3 hub/914 disc style assembly, which some aftermarket rear discs are) contributed to the problem? Combination of all 3?
Anyway- glad that you guys were able to take care of him. Al
Ps- looks like it was a blast!
Pieter is about an hour West of Maggie Valley, Carlos.
Hi Everyone,
Feel like I need to respond and give an update. Stan summed up the problem.
Henry was more than helpful and even sent me a text on Saturday night of the mishap based on a photo posted on facebook.
I don't have facebook, so I was surprised to hear from him.
I asked Henry what could cause that problem and he mentioned the same thing that ALB did, that the axle but was not torqued properly, or that it was and came loose.
He mentioned a higher torque number that ALB, so I will get that verified for the future.
It is on his maintenance page that he sends with new cars, obviously I didn't read that part.
So currently parts are on their way to Pieter ,and my plan is to run back to NC in my pickup and rent a trailer and haul the car home when it is ready.
A huge thanks to all who helped and expressed their concern(which was everyone).
Stan and Lane diagnosed the problem, Ron, Maddy and Danny came back to load me up,Ron and Maddy allowing us(Stan) to use their truck and trailer to deliver the car to Pieter.
Pieter for graciously waiting for us and opening up his shop for the repair.
Everyone else who was waiting by the campfire to welcome us back and offering their support.
Stan and Jeannie for giving me a ride back to Illinois,Henry jumping into action and getting the parts together and sending them out.
I have very basic mechanical knowledge, so I appreciate all of you who helped me through this process and explained what was going on.
I will give an update once I get the car fixed and home.
Thanks,
Bones
The splined axles are much harder than the drum / rotor. I torque to 270 lbs. and then continue a bit to the next cotter pin hole.
Great News Tom,
Henry is a stand up guy.
He helped me out of a few jams and jumped right in to help me as well.
You need that kind of support and I am glad Henry provides it.
I always remember also that with a custom built car, it is impossible to guarantee all systems are go unless you have a mechanic that knows your car and knows what to consistently check. Unfortunately, you need to become more aquainted with the maintenance list until you teach your mechanic what needs to be checked as he knows 356 usually less than you do. 
Hope it gets fixed soon.
Ray
Regarding the big nut, I bought a 450 ft/lb impact wrench the first time I took a look at what was going on back there. I hammer them on with that, then jump on a breaker bar to get to the next hole. 270 foot pounds is the absolute minimum, and I’m going to at least twice that.
As far as Tom‘s car’s failure— it might have been an improper torque, but it could’ve been any one of several other things— an aftermarket cast-iron brake hub of indeterminate metallurgy, the stress of the kind of driving we were doing, or simply the fact that his car is putting down 3x the power of any VW that ever came from Germany.
As I said, I feel like it could’ve happened to any of us.
217 for swing axle ...253 for IRS
( I do 270 and onto the next cotter pin hole) I blew the dust off my 1969 and 1979 Bently manuals to get the correct torque for both early and late bugs, also the Haynes manuals . They all agree with 217 for swing axle and 253 for IRS. Muir just takes the middle road and says 220lbs for all gland nuts
So, was there no cotter pin on Tom Boney's axle nut?
Or will a cotter pin still allow it to loosen enough to damage the splines?
There was a cotter. That's one of the reasons I'm not super-quick to jump on the "improper torque" bandwagon.
If I were speculating (and we all are at this point), I'd guess that the failure was likely the result of the metallurgy of the hub, the significantly higher HP Tom's Subaru makes, and the aggressive nature of the driving we were doing.
It broke. Stuff happens. One point in isolation is a point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. As this failure exists in isolation, I'm not inclined to determine causation.
This is another chance to plug the Torque Meister. It allows one to easily and precisely set the proper torque.
I'm going with Stan and Alan on this one. The torque specs are a minimum, especially considering the driving some of us do and the power we are running through those stub axles. As Stan said, 3x more twisting force than the factory ever put through them. Also, even though most of us aren't running race rubber, today's tires are WAY stickier than the 165/15 of yesteryear, causing more side force to be transmitted.
I don't use a torque wrench. I use a 3 foot bar. I lean on it with all my weight. Then bounce on it until the next hole lines up. The point is to prevent ANY movement in the junction between axle(swing)/stub axle(IRS) and hub.
Plus the Bentley torque setting are for clean new-looking parts - no surface rust, grit or grime. I've never seen an axle stub stripped. It is always the inner splines on the brake drum/rotor. I suspect these are aftermarket untreated cast iron - so quality is suspect. Most fome from India or Taiwan. Might be why folks go to 944 rear trailing/swing arms, axle stubs and disk brakes but that gives you 5x130mm wheels - not wide 5.
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Whatever the exact cause of Tom's troubles, in retrospect, for the various reasons given above a higher torque value here seems like a good idea. I hadn't thought of the effect modern tires would have, @DannyP. Very good point- tires are way better now than they were 40 and 50 years ago!
@Alan Merklin- Where did you find 253 ft. lbs. for irs? In both the blue (early) and orange (late) Bentley manuals all I could find was 217 ft. lbs (Brakes and Wheels, page 37 in the late book, with no differentiating between swing and irs). I'm by no means saying you're wrong, Alan, just interested in where it came from.
@WOLFGANG- I believe most people who use the 944 trailing arms do so for the disc brakes (and maybe also for bragging rights). You don't have to fabricate caliper mounts or emergency brake brackets and yes, you get the 5x130mm bolt pattern, but again I believe they are 1/2 or 1" wider than the type 1 arms (so really not practical for Speedster use). On some 944's they are aluminum instead of steel (which could be another reason for people using them), but there's not really any weight difference (I'm quoting my friend Bruce Tweddle on the weight thing- if there was a weight advantage he'd be all over it!) and because of their design (I believe they are castings?) the aluminum ones would be harder to narrow (again, from Bruce). Al
Al, the extra width is an issue for sure but I think one should not forget that the 944 axles and hubs are hub centric which makes balancing a 911 style wheel a lot more precise. If your tired of having a vibrating seat you know what to do
IaM-Ray posted:If your tired of having a vibrating seat you know what to do
Find a shop with one of these?
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I know where there is a complete on in a shed and available they worked great ! OSHA made shops get rid of them because they would about kill you :~(
We used to use one at the Mobil service station back in the late 70s/early 80s. There’s still a shop in Peoria using them. I’d love to find one in good shape.
They are dead-nuts accurate for the balancing of tires, rims, hubs, and brake rotors.
@Stan Galat I asked and he happens to have it up on eBay now
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No aluminum rims. Bummer.