2110?

I'm making vast plans for the long gray months ahead...and I could use some help. I'm going to be replacing my 1600? 1776? - I've read every post on this great site, and I'm picking up mixed signals on engine size. My driving's going to be a mix of 10/90...10% city, the remainder on expressways/highways at whatever it takes to keep up. Part of my tationale concerning an engine this size, is for safety - onramps and passing. As it stands, the current engine bears a striking resemblance to my '65 Beetle from a long time ago, when tailwinds were my best friend. The rest of my 2110 rationale has nothing to do with logic. Every once in a while, I'd simply like to get to the next stoplight a lot faster than that kid in the Honda with the wing on the back and that irritating music invading my daydreams.
So here's my question: how potentionally dangerous is a 2110?
I've read about swapping ends unintentionally. I'm nearly 65; I went to a driving school a long time ago; I don't intend to be doing any Juan Fangio impersonations. I just don't want to be traveling backwards during a senior moment.

Dennis..... Why stop at a 2110cc engine... The costs of engines this size is about the same as larger (2275 & 2377 +) engines.....

Once past 1915cc, they all use a stroker crank as well as big bore cylinder kits.....Cylinder kits are priced about the same, regardless of size. (90.5-94mm) The same can be said for the "middle of the road" crankshafts. (those without special modification or exotic coatings.)

The pricing differences on turnkey engines comes from what is required in the way of cylinder heads, cam, induction, and exhaust to achieve the desired performance.....

A 2275 or 2337 engine designed for average street use, with occasional "Stoplight G.P.", should cost about the same as a 2110 given the same attention to assembley and balance...

Shop around, contact several vendors and e-mail your stated objectives and performance desires....Be flexible, vendors may have suggestions that will extend engine life and performance at little or no additional cost.....

Hope this helps

Dennis,

Swapping ends while driving can happen with your current engine. I'm assuming you have IRS which is much more stable than a swing axle, so driving and throttle technique will be just as important as they are now. If you do have IRS then you're 2 steps ahead of the swing axle crowd that get's to experience the dreaded positive camber transition that will ultimately cause the back of the car to be the front and vice versa.

In other words and the short version, regardless of the engine, everything falls back on how your drive your car.

So, back to your engine question. I've probably built over 50 different 2110 cc engines. Personally I love them, especially the version that incorporates an 82mm stroke crank shaft

(there are 2 versions of a 2110, the first and most common is 82mm crank x 90.5mm pistons, the 2nd and rather unique version has a 76mm crank x 94 mm pistons)

The first version with the 82 mm crank creates a lot of torque due to the long stroke. It's a great power house and with thick 90.5 cylinders, it has a nice longevity record. This version produces great torque and helps with those sudden bursts of speed needed to enter freeway on ramps or overtaking and passing another vehicle.

The second over square engine has 94mm piston with a shorter stroke 76mm crank. It's more of a high revving engine and in a light car it can really give the sensation of flying but may require more gear changes. You'll probably not recognize that you're making more gear changes unless you had 2 exact 2110cc equipped speedsters sitting side by side wherein one had an 82 mm crank and the other had the 76mm crank. If this were the case, and you put both engines through an exact same course, you'd see that the 82 mm crank version definitely had more torque.

Horsepower is just a number derived from torque but to make it simple, both engine could easily produce 150 HP but the version with the 82 mm crank will make that power sooner, or at a lower RPM range and the version with the 76 crank will probably make the power higher up in the RPM range. Thus, the 82 mm version may be easier to drive during daily commutes or for just pleasure driving.

Remember, building such an engine requires much more than just pistons and crank shafts. Consider your selection of cylinder heads, rods, cam, carbs, a full flow system etc etc etc.

Also, remember, anytime you exceed the stock VW engine displacement, you create HEAT so plan wisely to control the engine/oil heat before you decide to build an engine.

by the way, age is just a number, I'm 60 going on 41

Larry couldn't have said it better! From my limited research, a 2,110 cc with 82 mm/ 90.5 mm combo is probably the best out there for torque (which is what you feel when driving) and longevity (you want the thing to last).

Wow! Larry!!! What a great description!! Just like going to "engine building 101"!

I have an 82 X 90.5 2110 as well, but rather than trying to expand on what Larry wrote (It's excellent) let's look at how it compares to other engines and/or vehicles.

Larry's absolutely correct in that an 82 X 90.5 produces a LOT of mid-range torque. You may not "feel" the power in some engines, but you'll definitely feel the torque, especially if it comes on in the mid-range (2,500 - 4,000 rpm). THAT's where you'll be using it the most, after all. A 1,915cc engine would be able to keep up, but where I might only have to stomp the gas in fourth to accelerate around something, the 1915 would probably have to downshift to third to keep up.

Getting onto an expressway/freeway/interstate the 2,110 can be like a rocket, easily pulling away from big, American V8 Sedans, pickup trucks and so forth. Once out there, it can cruise effortlessly, all day at 75-80 and (with a type-4 oil tower and a fan powered external oil cooler) will sit at 200 degrees doing it. The crucial "Passing move" of blipping from 55 to 70+ and back to 60 does not need a downshift, although if you do it really jumps.

I can keep up with or obliterate a lot of unsuspecting Japanese tuners, but only if they look fast and don't have much of a turbo. If they have a big intercooler hanging out front I don't try, as a big turbo'd tuner will leave just about anything with carbs in the dust. Running against any of the big V8 Pickups around here between lights is always fun, unless they have a diesel, and then the tuner rule applies - many of the diesels here have performance chips in them and develop a LOT more torque than I do!

So that's about it.....my easiest comparison is my 5.4 litre gas V8 F150 pickup truck. It's no slouch, but I can leave it far behind with my Speedster (and the speedster gets just over twice the gas mileage!!)

Hope this helps....gn

Oh, yeah.....I'm 57 going on 33.......

Other things to keep in mind when getting an engine with more power. Maybe upgrading the brakes to discs at least in the front. The transmission also, The stock trans will survive as long as you dont do drag racing starts. I've heard a lot of good things about 3.88 ring and pinion, lower rpm's at cruising speed. But the transmission builder can make a recommendation.

Well, I'm 62 and have owned both and I agree with all the above. The 82mm will certainly push ya back in your seat and let ya do burn-outs if that's what you want.
I now drive a mellow lil' 76mm that suits me just fine. "Smooth" power that can "get out of it's own way" when called upon. That's for me!

Hay Larry---what do you think it would run on average to have a new engine installed? About? Would I be able to swap a 1,500 mile engine for the labor?

--Hope you are well--I enjoyed your tutorial on engines earlier in this topic. Thanks ---Jack

Guys...great advice, and I really, really appreciate it! I'll be back with a list of specs, if you'd be so kind.

still waiting on my CB 2110 from Pat, 76mm. 90 day waiting list and im on day 39.....longest 90 days of my life.

If you're just having an engine installed then the shop should only charge you 2 to 3 hours labor. (that's stretching it out and taking a lunch and potty break at your expense) I can drop and install an engine and have it running in less than 2 hours and that includes me talking to the customer and taking my time (if the customer isn't there then I talk to myself)

You're engine is worth much more than the labor time, even if they charged 100.00 per hour which I doubt.

So here is my HO, based on a sample of 1. Please consider the source, as I have no experience w/ any of the other engines discussed. I have about 2500 mi and about three months on a 2332 running 44 IDF Webers, and this engine has lots of torque. It is geared to be quick in first 3 gears, so runs country roads well. It has 0.89 4th and 3.88 final drive, and is known as the Freeway Flier, I think. Runs the interstate about as fast as you

I've had 1776s with stock heads, and I've got a 2110 with decent heads now. I used to fall in the small motor camp because I thought it captured the spirit of the original more faithfully. After having a bigger motor for a couple of years now, I'm pretty sure I had rocks in my head for thinking that. More is more.

I'm also 100% with Leon. I did a 2110 because everybody said it was the cat's meow. I'm now of the opinion that I was ignorant for making that choice. A 1914 gets you 90% of the way to 2110 power for a lot less money. At this point, my humble opinion is this: if you are gonna' stroke it, STROKE IT. If you are machining the case for 90.5s, do it for 94s. Pent roof cases take up to 86 mm of stroke w/o clearancing, so a 2387 is with your grasp for about the same price as a 2110.

Yeah, you'll need better heads, and bigger carbs, but 200 h/p is available for a few hundred bucks more than 150 (OK, so maybe it's a thousand. Why quibble?). Cooling will be an issue, but cooling would be an issue with a 2110 as well. I've got a DTM (w/ a Type IV cooler) and a 96 plate remote oil cooler-- which I think I need for either setup. If (when) I do the next motor, I'll not do anything less than 94 mm jugs, and it will be at least an 84 mm stroke (thats a 2332). If I hit the jackpot, I'd like to do a 95 mm (Porsche size) bore with turned down Nickies (94 mm register machining in the case) and an 86 mm stroke (2438, baby), on stock length H-rods to drop the torque curve in the basement. I've got a set of 48 Dellortos with 42 mm vents-- 200 lb/ft of torque at 2500 RPM is within reach with this set-up.

My point is: TORQUE is where it's at. Type IVs are the bomb because they have wider bore spacing to allow 4" pistons, which make displacements up to 3L possible, and displacements in the 2.5L range pretty plebian. They make a LOT of torque. You want as much as you can afford.

It's just my .02.

Jack...
I sold my VS 1915 motor for 1500 bucks thru Sacramento craig's list. The key to the deal was that I was able to give the buyer a demo ride while the engine was still in the car. He gave me a deposit and then I yanked it. For his needs and mine, I think we are both happy.
Anyway, here is what happened next:

Dennis - don't sweat that "sudden backwards snap roll" stuff. I'm 66, a pretty aggressive driver, and the last time I actually spun a vehicle around on public roads was over 30 years ago. Your reflexes may be slower, but your brain very probably functions way better now than it did back then! Your enthusiasm is probably better aligned with your capabilities today. And your speedster is inherently a good handling vehicle, very responsive. My mantra is "focus - don't do nuttin' stupid - keep it smooth - mind the consequences - focus". I've used that for some pretty eventful drives in pickup trucks, motorcycles and speedsters on various (in)appropriate occasions. Works for me.

Like Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

Ernie - is that your garage? DANG !!!

Why stop at 2332. How about a 3140!

Check this monster out.

http://www.pauter.com/Ghia.htm

Man you guys are sick. This has been an informative thread since I'm looking for a new motor and uncertain as to what size will make me happy. I originally thinking about a 1915 now I find myself researching a 3140. This is no different than the Harley world of more horsepower, more assessories, more chrome. I just bought an '08 Harley (with only a few performance mods) and no plans for any more mods.

I got this replica as a new hobby thinks I could get away from obsessive behaviors. After reading through many threads here, I see that I just moved from 2-wheel obsession to a 4-wheel obsession. My wife is not gonna be happy. The good thing is will all the money I'll be pouring into the speedster, I will not have extra money for drinking, chasing women, or gambling. Thanks all.

David...
Garage? I call it the "can". It is a great hide out from reality. Got the thing at a garage sale, still on it's original shipping pallets at a garage sale price.
Ernie

Ernie,

You're probably the ONLY person I've ever heard of that has actually purchased a garage at a garage sale

Calm, methodical person that I am...given to carefully planning my every move...I ordered a 2110 stroker from Pat Downs today...I need to order the A-1 Sidewinder (ceramic coated, of course) next. Delivery is 4-5 months out, which means it'll be here in time for the last bonechilling weeks of winter. I'll be back in here with lots of questions, between now and then...soon's I figure out what I just did. Thanky, gentlemen.

Dennis: Drive it like you stole it.

Dennis, You will be very happy with that engine. While it's still in production, make sure you have it cut for a full flow oil system and a full flow oil pump installed.

This will easily allow you to add an oil filter (DON'T USE A FRAM HP1 BUT RATHER A WIX 51515R available at any NAPA store)

It will also allow you to easily add an external oil cooler with fan in conjunction with your internal cooler. If you're not familiar with a full flow, the builder drills and taps a hole in the oil galley to the left of the crank pulley. They then plug the hole in the oil pump that directs oil to that oil galley and add an oil pump cover that has a pipe threaded hole in the cover. This forces the oil from the pump, out the cover into a filter then to the cooler than back into the oil galley. It's very cheap to have done while the engine is being built so, make sure you ask for that option.

Dennis...
Thought you might enjoy this: That's Pat with my 2110 still on the dyno for final adjustments.

join the club, waiting list that is for a CB motor. Pat said he would order my sidewinder and install it prior to bench test. im going with the plain steel and will paint with high heat paint.

Somehow, I envisioned at as being somewhat older.

Or maybe I'm getting older but nobody else is.... {8>(

Well, um, I've been meaning to say something to you...

Yeah, He's just another "young dude"...like me!

~WB

wix makes napas oil filters, wix nr. is 51515R(if in fact that is correct) the napa nr. is 1515R. wix puts the #5 in front to designate Wix, its is the same filter although a different color. i prefer wix as they are available locally at a great price.

About Pat...
I had a great visit with him when I picked up my motor. As far as I know, he's never worked any place but CB. He started out there when he was a teen-ager. Now in fortys, he has built literally thousands of motors.

As an alternate to the WIX filter line, Robert Bosch makes filters of comparable quality, if you are ever caught without access to WIX/NAPA filters....

Bob,

NAPA filters are made by WIX and you're correct. NAPA drops the first numeral from the Stock WIX. For a while, NAPA had WIX make a 51515R exclusively for NAPA under the number 1515R but as of late, they found that it was a slow seller and they now just stock the WIX labeled filter using 51515R.

I tested this filter a few years ago and on www.spyderclub.com , I preach the use of the WIX/NAPA filter rather than a Fram HP1.

The WIX is a far superior filter.

For the record, the filters made by WIX for NAPA are made exactly the same as the WIX models.

Positive camber transition"---I know what it is and have vexperienced it up on Mt Nebo a few weeks ago. Since I installed the stabilizer bar and camber compensator the car rides like it's on tracks. Zero leaning and smooth around any curve at speeds I could only imagine before the improvements. An enormous difference!---Jack

Jack, this is just a wild ass guess but I think you published your post in the wrong thread

Larry--let's see about that wild ass guess.

I actually was responding to guess who---your post on this very thread an 11/19 at 4:33:59 where you mention swapping ends and positive camber.

--Jack