2nd gear grind on downshift

Ok folks, I'm still getting used to my new '02 IM and it's the first VW drivetrain I've ever driven. I can downshift 4-3 or even 2-1 at slow speed without a sound, but 3-2 will grind a bit every time, at almost any speed, unless I do a quick heel/toe throttle blip to help synch. Normal? Reason for concern?

Now, to hijack my own post... The CB Perf "Super 90" 1776 is not exactly my idea of performance oriented. I'm joining the go big or go home party. Look forward to casting that vote sometime in the future.

Not normal, Chuck. May be a synchro-ring. It'll only get worse over time. Mine did the same thing...gave me an excuse to swap in a f/flyer trans.

~WB

Check the usual things i.e. shifter coupler for wear, shift rod bushing, loose shifter plate and try adjusting the shifter too.
If none of that works and as Bill mentioned ( I think so too), you may have the syncro issue. ~Alan

Yelp I'd say you have a cracked syncronizer. Who is that fella In Californy that sells tranny parts. I have forgotten again..

I made jigs and press collars for Mr Vestal so he can takeum down and fix stuff like that. He was so pleased he gave me his old press in payment. He bought a bigger one just for this.. He still likes to have me around when he does one.

Barry, who is this Mr. Vestal you frequently refer to?

when was the last time you replaced your fluid?

I run redline GL4 synthetic - works very very well. smooth shifts

these trannies are not like hondas. the syncos are not that good.

Also, a clutch that is not properly "working" can give you precisely that symptom. I lived with a second gear issue that sounds a lot like yours, for some time, thinking the syncro was bad. Some possible causes? Improperly set up bowden tube for one. A "stretched" clutch cable for another. Just some things I would consider/check/adjust before deciding I had a bad syncro or defective transmission....

do you know how to double clutch, and bring the rpm up in nutreal to match the gear speed. bill

If you plan on upgrading to a big engine I'd recommend getting the tranny upgraded at the same time, to handle the extra hp/torque.
As William mentioned, try double clutching for now.

Conway Vestal runs Vestal Auto Repair A old style VW SHOP Chech your tranny oil it could be low..

I'm a little encouraged that my problem didn't seem to show itself this evenings drive. I pushed the clutch pedal to the carpet with each shift. May just be an adjustment and a good fluid change... I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the advice!!!

Chuck,

Like buckwheat says get going with the double clutch, it will smooth out your downshifts and is a good habit to get into. I used to drive some old trucks you had to double clutch to go up the gears (not just to downshift) still remember a 47' International pickup what a beast that was. Double clutching is sort of a lost art unless you drive older cars.

On your clutch adjustment, how much pedal travel do you have? Push your clutch down with your hand until you meet resistance. You should have about 1/2" to 1" max of slack or free play. If more get some ramps and back your ride onto them and reach up and turn the nut a few turns and check the pedal free play, don't do too many turns 1 or 2 to start and check the pedal/test drive etc.

Its easy but greasy and you will have to replace the clutch cable sometime anyway.

PS there is a simple clutch nut tool available for under $10 that could be helpful but I just used my channel locks and wrench.

Cheers
Dave

You can stick a pry bar behind the clutch adjustment arm to "gently" relieve the tension especially with if you have a Kennedy 1700 lb. pressure plate.
While this this makes it easier to adjust the wing nut with your fingers, don't force it or you'll have other issues. ~Alan

The "Lost Art": I learned it first off, and so can't really do it any other way. I always double clutch the down shifts to 2nd, and the others sometimes too. new tranny, old tranny or anything in between. Do it w/ my new Mazda all the time. I think once you get the feel of it it will be second nature. that is the way it is w/ me. Old trannies (vintage VWs, Porsches, MG, Triumphs, and who knows which others) ALWAYS had a weak synchro at second gear, in my experience, and so if you do not like the little crunch sound, hit the clutch twice. Heel and toe is a nice touch, but not always needed, unless in a serious pinch for quick action. On that note, I had a friend w/ a very fast 911 who went to driving/racing school to get certs and learn how to drive fast. His technique involved a lot of heel and toe. His instructor pushed his car around the track some to show him what to do, what line to take, etc. as most instructors do, i 'spose. Instructor was, naturally, very fast, and he never used heel and toe. But he really understood how to run fast and deep into a corner and brake like no tomorrow, and so there is the secret to getting around quick.

And of course, make sure the clutch cable is adjusted to correct length, as your clutch may be dragging during shifting a tiny bit, and the other synchros are strong enough to beat it. I like my clutch to get just disengaged about a half inch or so from full pedal down. Means you have to push it all the way down to make shifts. i.e., my friction point is a low as possible. Some do it differently . . .

For all the other spastic drivers (except Kelly and a few others), do not give up hope! At least half a dozen new cars now come with a manual transmission that AUTOMATICALLY blips the throttle on all downshifts. No action is required by the driver other than to depress the clutch and move the shifter. The engine revs are instantly matched to the lower gear selected. It's all computer controlled, and no doubt done better than most of us "drivers" could do it ourselves.

Further evidence of the downfall of western civilization.

I'd love this on my track car. Heck, I wish it also had a double clutch transmission. I guess I'm getting old and lazy. :-)

david,

the computer controlled "blip" sounds really cool, and I have heard of it, not experienced. Once you get to know your car and your gear ratios, matching revs "by ear" just sort of happens. But the blip is only half of the double clutch operation, of course. If you are going to help the synchro w/ a double clutch, you have to engage the clutch while in neutral. As to the car doing the driving for you, I'm kinda against that on principal. My Mazda has an electronic throttle (fly-by-wire), and I really do not like it as it is sluggish in some circumstances. Comparatively, my Speedster and those short coupled manifolds and Webers on the end of a solid connection to my foot are near instantaneous, and so that is how I like it. Further note: a few years back, as I have heard it, the F1 guys took the paddle shifting thing to the limit and did away w/ the clutch pedal, using the state of the art machinery to allow the car to do the clutching. it lasted one year only. somebody decided that they really did want the drivers in there to do something, and not just have a contest to see who had the fanciest computer . . . They still use paddle shifters, which is another item I have some trouble with, not really getting it in the few chances I've had to use 'em.

It's been getting worse, even with blipping the throttle on downshift, and shifting into reverse at a dead stop with a fully engaged clutch has started giving me some trouble as well. In the shop now... 106 degrees outside today so that's a good place for it :) Bad news was metal shavings in the transmission fluid. My mechanic is going to replace the fluid, adjust the clutch and see, but expectations are its time to replace soon. No one in D/FW rebuilds these to his knowledge.

:( Just ordered a new Pro-Street from Kevin at KLR Transmissions, 3.88 with .089 4th gear. Seems to be a great guy over the phone! He is building Henry's transmissions now so I felt good about the purchase as I know IM usually only flies first class.

Chuck, I believe that might be KCR:
http://www.kcrtrans.com/home.html

That's the one! Sorry. I certainly want to give credit where its due and Kevin's a good guy. Talked me through my plans to upgrade to more horsepower, how I drive, etc... 4-day build schedule at the moment and I'll have it early next week.