356 Coupe Replica Recommendations

You are in IM country.  I have a watercooled IM conv D with a hard top.  Definitely a daily driver.  And you could go topless on those 2 or 3 nice days.  You should specify hard top with soft top delete.  It will save you a few bucks.  I'm actually thinking about trimming out the back of my car and using hard top or no top at all.  Soft top delete.

Kitzkreig = Run Forest

 

Listen to Phil's advice.  Have Henry source you a nice used IM Roadster; he can make a custom hard top for you.    You can have him add a ton of sound deadning to the car and the top.  Plus, you can drive topless on those rare dry days.  I also like the idea of a Coupe but IMHO the Replica industry(for Coupes) is just not there yet.

 

 

Why, specifically, do you say that?

Because I live in the Midwest. Like I said, its IMHO (In My Humble Opinion).  Sorry if that came off bad.  I just think that what is being made right now would not satsify me living in the upper midwest.  I dont think they are fully weather tight and I have a feeling that they are louder than what someone may expext from a coupe.  Our frost heaved roads are not forgiving and I would think someone would want a coupe to be weathertight, well dampened, quite and more serene.   I would probaly have a diffeent opinion if I lived West and South.    

I'm familiar with IMHO

 

Perhaps I misunderstood your original post. I originally read it as "coupes" are not there yet....as if to say speedsters are....hence my question.

 

But it seems what you are saying is coupes are "not there yet" as a daily driver....and subsequently speedsters would not be there yet either.

 

Do I have it right now?

 

Yes Brandon. Thanks for saying it better than I did.

Thanks for your (humble) opinion, Marty.  Well, YES, one of the reasons I am "stuck on coupe" is for the weather-tightness.  The other is esthetics;  I just like the looks of 356 coupes!  Looking at the ads on Hemmings, etc, they don't TELL you that this car or that car leaks like a sieve, so it's good to hear that from you.  Anyone have any specifics on the Silver/Red coupe by JPS that was in Oregon and now at BH-motorcars?  Is it leaks or mechanicals that caused the first owner to dump it after so few months?  Have its problems been rectified?

I am the original owner of coupe #3 so that is the early build like the Silver and the Green coupes that have changed hands since. Although it doesn't rain much in LA, since I had my car 7 years ago, I have gone through some big rain falls here, I should know since I grew up in a tropical country that rains a lot. The car is watertight, John has figured it out how to keep the water out. However, my issue is the fogging of the windshield since there is really no defroster to talk about, the inferior wiper sweep and although I also have the windshield washer, when it barely rains, it is kind of hard to see out especially since the wiper doesn't have the intermittent mode and at least mine did not come back to park automatically. I was told that the watercooled Suby engine will give a better defroster function, I can't tell though.

 

I suggest you call John and talk to him and make your own opinion of what he tells you. Mine is not a daily drive, but every weekend, I put about 60-80 miles of canyon carving drives and I love it although now the temperature is coming down even in LA, the heater really forgets that it should be giving some heat.

 

If you have any specific question, PM me.

 

Eddy

I drive my IM with hard top or soft top in all types of weather, rain, frigid temps etc.  The only time I don't drive it is when I know salt is on the road.  In pouring rain there are a few drop which get through the driver side window, that's it.  The most valuable piece of equipment in getting rid of foggy windows is not heat but A/C.  Even with the heat at a comfortable temp if I turn on the A/C compressor all humidity is taken out of defrost air and foggy window are gone immediately...kind of like a modern car.  I know A/C is an expensive option but if you really want to ride in frigid or wet weather A/C is a must.

BTW.  For what its worth I called BH Motor cars over a year ago about a Vintage Spyder with a Fat Performance Type 4.  They told me that it had just sold.  It's still advertised.  Dark grey one.

I've spoken to BH Motor cars recently and had the same experience. " Oh...that one just got sold...but we can probably find you another...what exactly are you looking for ? " etc. "We've got several coming in next week ".  Odd way of doing business...lining up a potential sale with no inventory to work from, then run out and try to find a car for a buyer.

Maybe they just take one from the pile and purpose it? Didn't they buy that one project out from under Alan? Maybe they have it waiting in the wings for a 'quick flip'.

 

I called today and asked about the black CMC with the Fuchs wheels.  "It's been sold..." I asked why it was still listed and he said that if the site has a 'call for price' listed that means that the car has been sold and that they can recreate the car for you... for a price. "They do restorations and recreations all the time."

 

So, of the 60 (SIXTY) cars they have listed on their site, they really only have 16 (SIXTEEN) for sale. Based on what David and Phil said above, I'd bet that's even a stretch.

 

Odd business model.

Ted

 

 

Ted, Thanks for that response.  I guess I can stop dreaming (well, in the near-term, anyway) about some of the cars for sale at BH Motorcars.  Yeah, it's an odd way to do biz, but they're not alone in using that tactic.  Seen it done with new and used cars, and everything from refrigerators to watches to computers to ANYTHING at Costco.  And thanks to all who answered my inquiry!

I bet Kevin Zagar (coolrydes customs)can build you one.

Well, I've figured it out. (!)  Probably why we see so many speedsters and coupes (and yes, Convertible Ds, too) for sale with <10K miles (HECK, <4K miles!) is that these don't have windshield defrosters.  Am I right?  So, that is pretty much a deal-killer as a daily driver in Seattle.  (However, acknowledgment to Phil re air conditioning; I'm sure that is invaluable in damp climes, and maybe (?) the solution I need) So, I ask you sages that are less naïve than myself;  Do ANY 356 replicas come equipped with a windshield defroster, and are watertight enough for the wetter climates?  Or is AC enough of a solution?  Thank you all again for the discussion!

IMHO one should use these cars like a motorcycle.  They are not DD's unless you live in an ideal climate.

you might think about sas in knoxville tenn. he can build with different chasis, with heat and air. bill

 

Well, I have a 2013 JPS Coupe and I live in Wenatchee, so if you want to see and drive one, come on over...in the spring when it is warm and dry.

 

I have lived in Seattle and you could probably have John build it watertight with a heater and defrosters and wipers AND WASHERS that might work in that weather.

 

They drive like maniacs in Seattle, right on top of one another and when it pours the spray is full of oil that smears not only on your windshield but the whole car.

 

These cars are small and hard to see or see out of. 

 

When I drive in Seattle, I drive a pickup truck with the lights on and a plastic jesus on the dashboard.

  

I would not use it as a daily driver in that traffic and weather, the analogy to a motorcycle is perfect...they are dangerous and no fun in wet weather.

 

Now to be sure, I really enjoy my car and never even considered a open top car.

 

You may know that Park Place in Bellevue builds speedsters and there are several other specially car dealers in the area that have them on occasion.

 

If you can find a existing coupe that you like, I would sure buy it and avoid the build time. These cars need some sorting to perform the way I like...

 

I have absolutely no regrets for my purchase and expect the car will be in my estate.

 

I will climb over a real live modern Porsche to drive it in good weather on the right roads and in the right traffic... 

 

    

Perhaps I can add some relevant information being one of the newest owner of a JPS subie coupe.  I have a heater and air conditioner.  Haven't had occasion to really use the air conditioner to cool the car due to the temperatures in Pa being 50 and below.  However it seems to blow plenty of cold air and I have used it to defrost the interior of the car which is essential.   Heater works fairly well haven't exactly figured out why it seems to have a mind of it's own and will blow warm air and plenty of it and then stop. 

 

Now to the meat of the story.  These cars are in my opinion NOT suitable as daily drivers if you are talking about using them in weather that is not dry.   You don't have antilock brakes or air bags and wet stopping and even steering isn't up to the standards of modern cars.  

 

I had some misconceptions about what I was buying and while I am well pleased with the car for the most part I don't think it would be a good choice for daily use in most situations.  The analogy to a motorcycle makes sense to me however you could certainly extend the use for cold and clear days when perhaps the average MC rider might pass on the bike.  Listen I've had Miata cars and many other sports cars and for the most part I didn't drive them on rainy or certainly snowy days.  Some guys do and some will even ride bikes on all but the worst days.  I've got a couple cars to pick from and I'll take the SUV on days that are even remotely questionable.   If you are going to buy a car and it must be used in all types of weather I personally sure wouldn't buy a replica car made by any of the builders.  Probably an all wheel drive modern Porsche would be the best if you can handle the $$$$

 

Back in the days when we had no options we drove cars like these and worse in all manor of bad weather but would you choose to do it today?   I wouldn't but could you if you wanted. Sure but then you have deterioration rust and such to deal with and it's probably not fair to the car either. Wife sure isn't going to like it believe me on that.  

 

The misconception is that these cars are new cars that just LOOK old.  That is just NOT the case. They are pretty much recreations of the original cars with some improvements.  

 

It's been said that the IM cars are the best for bad weather driving and having seen them I would think that more then likely is the truth but who in there right mind is going to take a $75,000 sports car out in anything but the BEST conditions.     Ok I know some would but I sure wouldn't.    

 

The comment made about choosing the Subie Coupe over a modern day Porsche? Well I'd say that's a personal choice.   I've had both it depends on what you really want to do with the car.   For my self the Subie Coupe is an toy car which I bought because I have a modern sports car and wanted a collector car.  But something that could be driven as well.  It also was a crutch to help me get off and give up the motorcycles which have been a part of my life.  At 68 I probably should give up the bikes (reaction time and all of that)  The subie coupe is safer then a MC but certainly not a car I'd pick to get into an accident with if I had the opportunity to choose.  

 

So long post.  Short of it any of these cars are probably for the VAST majority of the owners not second cars but third and forth cars.   

  "Do ANY 356 replicas come equipped with a windshield defroster, and are watertight enough for the wetter climates"?

 

Chiapetto, Intermeccanica! Ruby is equipped with a 3 speed blower fan from a 356 Roadster.This setup works absolutely great! More than ample directed air to keep the windshield clear,under the harshest winter and rainy conditions. As an aside,Ruby is powered by a 2110cc CB Performance engine. Water cooled engine not required for heat or defrost!

Here's my $.02:

 

I've had one speedster or another for 15 years. I've had an air-cooled Intermeccanica with wind-up windows and an Espar gasoline heater since 2005. Every year, I drive it a bit more "normally". I put it up on November 1, and don't get it out again until May 1-- but between those dates, I DO treat it like a second car.

 

The limiting factor for when I drove the speedsters I previously owned (the ones without foul weather accouterments) was not actual bad weather-- it was the THREAT of bad weather. You'd like to take the car to dinner and a movie with your wife-- but that's 5 hours, and there isn't a 5 hour stretch in the Midwest when it might not rain. Weekend get-away? Forget it. The THREAT of rain, rather than actual rain, would be enough to keep the car at home. Long trips were out of the question-- there is never a 7-14 day stretch in the summer when there is not at least the possibility of rain.

 

After several years of staying within a 30 mile radius of home (to get it in a garage quickly, in the event of rain), and only driving 1000 mi/year as a result, I decided I was either going to drive the car, or sell it. I chose to drive it. I don't need a piece of garage sculpture. I'm glad I made the choice I did. As much as I love looking at it, driving the stupid thing is what brings a grin to my face.

 

My car is not 100%, "pressure-wash-proof" dry. But this fall I took it on a 5500 mi trip to the west coast and back. Along the way, I drove through one of the worst thunderstorms I've ever been behind the wheel for. People were stopping their cars ON THE HIGHWAY (in their lanes-- not pulling over). The car dripped a couple of places, and I got off when I could, but I drove for over an hour through biblical rain, and another 2 through "normal" heavy rain.

 

Nobody goes looking for it, but the ability to face it when it comes up makes the car 10x more usable... air-cooled and all.

 

When JPS brought the coupe to market, I offered an opinion. At the time, I said something to the effect that, "If JPS can make a water-tight coupe, a lot of potential speedster buyers scared off by the lack of weather protection will be quite interested in the product. If John Steele shows his typical indifference to what people are actually asking for (real heat and weather-protection), there will be a lot of disappointed customers. The world is not clamoring for a car that trades a lot of the intrinsic "goodness" (very open cockpit) for no appreciable increase in weather protection. Nobody is looking for a leaky coupe".

 

I really don't want to start another holy war, but it's always a good idea to address expectations and reality before plunking down a bunch of money for what is (after all) a toy. From actual replica coupe owners, it seems that the consensus is that the coupes are better than a side-curtain speedster, but not 100% "pressure-washer-proof" warm and dry. I would be remiss to not say that this level of protection and heat is available without giving up the thing (open-air cruising) that makes the car so appealing to some (most?) of us.

 

Forewarned is forearmed.

Good point on the threat of weather Stan.  I don't drive my car if the chance of rain is over 20% unless gutting it out for an event.  That means I miss some drives.

I find that my tonneau keeps the car dryer than my top &  side curtains on those 20% days when I get bit and I keep a towel in the car to dry off the tonneau.  Usually, these days are passing storms.

As with Stan, I drive my IM for six or seven months, and have driven through some really nice rain storms - last year getting to Carlisle we got deluged on the way.  A few small drops make their way into the interior, the same as with every convertible sports car I have ever had.  I carry a small cloth rag for that purpose.

 

I may choose to not go out in the car if it is raining, but if it rains while we are out, simply put up the top and keep going.  It also helps if you dress appropriately with these cars.  Jeez, I drove a bug eye Sprite through one winter with a flimsy convertible top, side windows, and no heater.  And no, it did not have airbags or ABS.  If I recall, all I had was worn out summer tires, too.  That winter did a lot to teach me how to drive a car.

 

 

I drive my car all year long, but then Charleston, SC doesn't have a particularly cold winter.  I keep the weather equipment in it just in case, because this area is known for pop-up showers, particularly in the warmer months.  Yeah the car leaks a bit, but it'll dry out.  I've driven it on the interstate for the Carlisle or Smoky Mountain trips for years, getting caught in storms many times and didn't melt.  I won't take the car out on a weekend if weather is bad already, but I won't keep it in if the threat is reasonably.  I put ~5k miles a year on mine.

I used to live in the Seattle area and I drove my Cobra every chance I got. Sure we got caught in rain several times...the interior (And us got wet once or twice) but we never let that stop us from going somewhere far from home for the weekend.

I drove with 3 other Cobra buddies from Seattle to Columbus, OH for a national Cobra event, a distance of around 2,400 miles one way. We got caught just west of Laramie, Wy and nearly all the way through WY in rain, sometimes torrential. We put our tops on in Laramie at a service station and continued to roll. Tops on Cobras are not weather proof...just like the older MG's, Healy's, etc.

We also made a couple trips to events in Reno, Portland and out to and down the WA coastline, once in winter and the other in early summer.

The Cobra is many ways is just like a Speedster, fiberglass, light weight, short wheelbase, high HP to weight differential, poor fitting top and I had no heater or defroster on mine, garners lots of attention though, some unwanted ...but I built it to drive and race...I've built all my cars to drive...I do not need pieces of 'garage art' or 'trailer queens'.

 

To my way of thinking if this new to me Speedster can not be driven because of rain(snow is another story)or I'm afraid to go more than 30 miles from home for fear of weather or it is too mechanically finicky then it is not worth having

 

Every year since we moved back to CO the wife and I go to Deadwood, SD for Kool Deadwood Nites in late August, a trip of 600mi one way from home in one of the cars. We were talking about next year and may take the Speedster if it proves reliable.

 

"If you own 'em or build 'em...you gotta drive 'em"

You guys that are afraid of rain are certified wimps......   :-)

Yep card carrying member of the Wimps are Us fraternity.   I used to be a very brave soul and after a couple of spin arounds and close calls I've wimped out and for the most part stay put or take the big boy (the Tahoe)    Again I'm lucky I've got cars to pick from.    If you only have one hammer you make do but why try to drive a spike with a claw hammer if you have a sledge.    Plus I like my claw hammer a lot more then I do my sledge.  I do get the sentiment of using the cars.  Some are just saving them for the next owner.  Don't agree with that either.   GOOD JUDGEMENT be applied in all of this.        

This debate is interesting.  Clearly some of the builders are doing better with respect to adapting to fowl weather conditions.  There is just as clearly a price to be paid.   I am beginning to see how a wish list could be made to make a speedster replica into a ideal car.  Boy would there ever be a big number to go with that ideal car.  Much more the I would be willing to pay and probably more then all but the vast majority of the "already owners" would pay.  If we wouldn't who would?   In my limited time and very limited experience I can see that there are cars for that can be had for under lets say the cost of an expensive motorcycle which while compromised in some respects are a WHOLE LOT OF FUN. Talking about used cars !! Then there are guys who are building state of the art cars.  Boy are they nice but do they or can they ever be expected to compete with something like a Porsche Cayman as they approach the same price of admission?   Up to individuals to decide.   My JPS couple is middle of the road and that's probably the rub.   I'd like it to be a perfect car much like those built by IM and others that I am probably not even familiar with but I sure wouldn't want to write the check to pay for it. The JPS doesn't entirely satisfy all of the problems but it has moved the bar forward I believe.   Worth it?   I think yes over all.  I can live with it's deficiencies.  Air conditioning would be a must for me.   I bought the coupe for looks rather then practicality.  I suspect it's marginal in foul weather but that's not a priority for me.      

GOOD JUDGEMENT can be applied when it is raining...just because it is posted 70 mph + or any other speed doesn't mean you need to drive that fast in the rain...if you know your car gets loose when it is wet outside compensate by lifting up on the right foot...let the idiots go around you...

 

Warm, clear summer Sunday afternoon cruises only isn't my choice...

A few years ago John Steele quoted a price of $1800 for the option of roll up windows on a speedster curious if anyone has a JPS coupe with roll ups and if so their opinions.  

Thanks,
Jane

I believe that all coupes have rollups windows, Pom.

lane,

 

sorry if i wasn't clear i am asking about roll ups in speedsters

 

jane

 

With the topic of weather tightness in coupes and IM being talked of as the only maker with roll ups I'm very curious as to whether anyone ordered a JPS speedster with this $1800 option

Four hours in a Cobra is a hour too long for me...

 

Same with my coupe... 

 

It seldom rains in eastern Washington...when it does, we have the good sense to stay out of it....it will be sunny by tomorrow.

Jane, I saw one. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but "mud fence" is an apt description for my beholding.

Thanks Stan,

Well if they're anything like the Chesil interpretation of roll ups even a night a heavy drinking couldn't make them look desireable.

Look at Al Shapiro's IM " Ruby" it has roll ups that function well and look great too. You cannot add roll up windows to an existing speedster as there are a few things that need to be done on a build to accept roll ups. 

Agreed having seen it in person.  Alan my plea to you would be being a nearby pa resident on a early november evening where a nine hour heavy rain just ended wouldn't I be a perfect candidate for your first roll up window project??!!!  No longer a die hard as in my younger days driving with blankets on my lap I now need creature comforts.  What a great winter project it would be right???!!!!

Oh, why not jump in on this??  A few misc thoughts:

(1) JPS I believe has worked out a lot of kinks in the coupe design he sells.  I believe he is pretty close -- maybe not water-proof, but good enough.  Any car w/out an air conditioner (cooler) is going to fog up under some conditions, even if the heat works properly. (2) A Speedster is a toy car, IMHO, and great fun, but not like a new BMW.  The coupes made from essentially the same idea as the replica Speedsters, will not be much different: toy cars.  Using one of these cars as a daily driver will depend on your tolerance for inconvenience.  It's all about realistic expectations. (3) I had two "real" 356 coupes back in the day (an '56 A and a '61 B) and used each as a daily driver.  I was young.  The cars were tolerable wrt heat, if you dressed properly and kept the flappers and other ductwork that provided the engine heat in order.  A constant companion in the car would be a blanket, and of course, a towel or two -- I'd call that "manual defrost".  Each of these cars leaked water, owing mostly to their tendency to rust, and the poor quality of the rubber used to seal the glass.  But hey, I was young. (4) The older you get, the less you like such quaint inconveniences. (5) I go to Carlisle regardless of the weather, which is almost universally wet at times.  Again, I travel w/ a towel or two, and use the blue tape.  It's what you do.  It will dry out.  It's plastic and will not rust.  At home, I do not willfully go out in the Speedster when the weather is bad. I am not afraid to, it's just not as much fun.  And the Speedster is the most fun car I have owned -- when it is running right.