"Yellow Pro-thane" -- there he goes again, teasing me. Dangling a tid-bit, and providing no information I can use, as in: who sells and where to buy.
@Stan Galat posted:@DaveNorCal - I ran Koni shocks on all 4 corners, with heavier 26 mm sway-away rear torsion bars in the rear, and 3/4" EMPI sway-bars front and back since the car was new in 2005 through 2022. I had Carey and Fincher make some changes to the car after a rear suspension piece specific to IMs failed on a run at the TdS in Sept. of last year.
I'm presently running Pro Shock ASB non-adjustable coil-over shocks valved to a number 4 setting on compression and number 6 on rebound with 350 lb springs on the rear. On the front, I pulled all of the thin torsion leaves out of the top tube (just the wide bars left) and all of the bottom tube leaves, with the 2005 vintage Koni shocks. I've got a 3/4" EMPI rear sway-bar, but I ordered a 15 mm VW sway bar from a '72 Thing (it's thicker than a Beetle bar) for the front I'm going to try.
If I were setting up a pan-car, I'd run my original rear configuration and my present front configuration. I'd rather run less spring and a more "normal" (24 psi) air-pressure in my front tires than a "normal" stack of torsion leaves and 18 or 20 psi.
Nothing is going to feel as good as a modern car (or a new Beck with a modern suspension) - but there are things that can be done to try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Wait...what?
Stan, you appear to have written that your current front suspension consists of just the four big leaves in the top tube, with no torsion leaves at all in the bottom tube.
That can't be right, can it?
@El Frazoo posted:"Yellow Pro-thane" -- there he goes again, teasing me. Dangling a tid-bit, and providing no information I can use, as in: who sells and where to buy.
Check with Pacific Customs. They have Prothane but not yellow.
@edsnova posted:Wait...what?
Stan, you appear to have written that your current front suspension consists of just the four big leaves in the top tube, with no torsion leaves at all in the bottom tube.
That can't be right, can it?
Obviously, no. I made several edits to my post and missed that on the last one.
The bottom tube has all the leaves.
I'll go back and fix it for posterity. Thanks so much for the catch!
@Impala posted:That is great to know. Would they be the same composition as the black Prothane except for the color?
No idea if it's the same or not, but I got mine from Pacific Customs (or Moore's Parts, I don't remember which) years ago. When we pulled them out to do the coil-over conversion, they looked new.
@El Frazoo posted:When one says "Konis", what exactly does that mean?
As Gordon said, Koni is a brand of shock. The ones I have on the front of my car (P/N: 80-1787) are adjustable for rebound dampening, and I've got them set full soft. They're still plenty stiff. I think they're better than KYBs, but there aren't a dozen options to choose from. As far as I know, there are EMPI oil shocks, EMPI gas shocks, KYB gas shocks, and Koni adjustable oil shocks. @chines1 might know more, but I don't.
@El Frazoo posted:can you just throw out the torsion bar leaves and use coil-overs to do the deed?
The coil-over shocks I've got are on the rear. You can't just pull out torsion bars (in the back) or leaves (in the front) because the trailing arms attach to the splines of the torsion bar (in the rear), and the front trailing arms attach to the beam torsion leaves (in the front), as Gordon said.
There are kits to eliminate both the front torsion leaves and the rear torsion bars altogether, but it takes some special stuff to make it work. If you were truly interested in what it takes, I'd happily help you out - but this is a place where the juice is not worth the squeeze unless there's a reason to do it. I'd not recommend you doing it on either end.
Airbagged cars use these kits, then use welded on bag mounts and bags as the springs. Red 9 makes a coil-over kit for the front and rear, but I'd not use it unless you have a much heavier shock perch than stock (Airkewld beam, or the like). The Red 9 guy gets kinda' defensive when asked if the stock front and rear shock towers are strong enough to be suspension mounts, but I don't think they are - and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently.
@El Frazoo posted:I have no good idea what shocks I have working at the moment.... They are white.
If they're white, I'd bet a cup of good black coffee they're KYB gas shocks.
@El Frazoo posted:I do get a lot of front end hop on uneven surfaces, espy when braking hard.
... which is why your front end is hopping. Mike Pickett is the very first person I've ever known or heard of who likes the KYBs. They're notably stiff on compression.
@El Frazoo posted:I have IRS and HD sway bars front and rear. Not quite sure what HD means, they are undoubtedly EMPI. Was asked if I wanted small or large, I chose "large". Obviously, I could go measure them.
If you have them, and John offered a "small" or "large" option, then you have 3/4" EMPI bars. There's only two readily available sway bars - a stock VW 12 mm and a 3/4" EMPI. That's why I was pretty jacked up about figuring out that there was something in between (a 15 mm '72 VW Thing bar). They're out there, but again - I'm not going to post a source because they're used parts and when they're gone, they're gone. Somebody searching suspension setups 5 years from now will end up chasing a dry hole if I put up a link - but if anybody wants to know, just do a search for VW Thing sway bar.
I've found the 3/4" bar to be pretty harsh for the front. Like Mike Pickett, removing a bunch of leaves didn't help an enormous amount - a little, but not earth shaking.
@El Frazoo posted:The frame is what I'd call a hybrid: has parts from a VW pan (including the VW VIN) , but uses a JPS tube frame also. As I understand it, it has the horns in back, the hat, etc. in front and the tube frame in between.
For about 10 minutes in 2005/2006, JPS and Thunder Ranch were offering a hybrid frame built by David Barrett (Manxchassis). It was a pan-replacement frame that the standard VS/JPS body/subframe bolted to. Thunder Ranch sold and John Steele stopped offering it.
@El Frazoo posted:I realize that "do nothing" is an option.
It is. If you can live with the front end the way it is, standing pat is by far the easiest option. Most of what I'm talking about is pretty esoteric and mainly aimed at the pedants in the crowd.
I am a pedant, and this is what I've got. I was asked what I have, and so I shared. If I went into where everything could be obtained, the post would be pretty boring. If you want more answers to specific questions, I'm always available for you, sir.
Great synopsis, Stan. Just to clarify, I removed the KYB gas shocks because they were too harsh and eventually replaced them with OEM VW oil shocks that I picked up from my local VW place.
Regarding where to buy prothane bushings, I spotted a vendor that seems to specialize in them for various size sway bars (no 15mm) in either red or black. I couldn't find any yellow, but I sometimes talk to ChatGPT so I may be hallucinating. Oh, and they say lifetime warranty, whatever that really means.
@Michael Pickett posted:Nothing special, the typical EMPI 3/4" bars front and rear. Probably one reason it likes the softer shocks up front.
DEFINITELY. Big anti-sway bars increase spring rate(especially when one wheel hits a big bump).
I had a 3/4" EMPI bar on the front of my Spyder, rode stiff as a brick, but cornered FLAT.
No front sway bar, rode fantastic. Cornered like a swaying 1960s Cadillac(REALLY bad).
Built my own 15mm bar from an old early 911 through-body bar. Cornered great, rode decent. That is how I left it.
I've no idea how many leaves are in my tea, upper or lower. Whatever Greg installed. My beam is 2" narrowed, so theoretically the spring rate is slightly higher than stock if all the leaves are in place. My beam has two adjusters, one slightly lowered, the other in stock location.
I run the oil adjustable Koni shocks at full soft rebound. I LIKE the ride(firm but supple) and handling.
Hooning is FUN! Just cruising to the store is FUN!
@Michael Pickett posted:Just to clarify, I removed the KYB gas shocks because they were too harsh and eventually replaced them with OEM VW oil shocks that I picked up from my local VW place.
I misread it then, and that clears it up. I can continue to say that I've never heard of anybody who likes the KYBs.
@El Frazoo - I'd not stand pat. I'd replace the shocks with oil-filled from the EMPI catalog, or call @chines1 and wait for his recommendation. The front tires cannot do their job if they aren't in contact with the road.
@Sacto Mitch posted:OK, maybe I'm the only one who didn't know, but, unless you've got dropped spindles, you apparently can't put Konis on an old Kirk-era VS. And I think Greg is using basically the same front end set-up on his current builds. (Or, is he?)
We tried Konis, but as they're available only in one length, they were too long and bottomed out, too. EMPI makes a shorter than 'standard' shock and this is what we had to use without going to dropped spindles.
Discuss.
This jogged my memory, and as I (like almost everybody here) have a VW beam with adjusters and no dropped spindles, I thought it would be worth digging into a bit.
The Koni 80-1787 shock for ball-joint front ends is listed as being 427 mm extended (16.811 inches), and 339 mm compressed (13.3465 inches). This means that they have about 3-1/2" of travel, which seems like not very much - but remember that the shock mount isn't right on the end of the lever (the trailing arm), so wheel travel is a bit more than that. It's still not very much travel.
I'm not sure what the length of the shock is installed on the car, with a static load and a full tank of gas, but it'd be good to know how close it is to being fully compressed.
I did even more digging and found that in addition to EMPI "high performance" oil shocks for cars lowered with adjusters, SoCal (AC Industries) are advertising shocks for lowered cars that are supposedly re-valved for a VW (rather than a '80s mini-truck). The EMPI shocks are 15-1/4" extended and 10-1/2" compressed. I'd assume that's what the AC Industries shocks are too, but I think I'll call and check. I'm curious now.
Running out of travel because the shocks are bottoming is no good-o.
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Stan, Tony wasn't sure if the Konis would work, but ordered them in anyhow and installed them. They ended up riding on the stops.
The short EMPI's have about 4" of travel.
You're right, I do have just the one adjuster, on the upper beam. As far as I know, all of the stock leaves are installed in both the upper and lower beams.
It could be the original shocks were always bottomed out from new. I do know that a test drive with the bottomed out Konis was quieter than driving with the old shocks, so Koni at least makes a much higher quality bump stop than EMPI.
This all started on a four-day trip to the coast over some really crude mountain roads, when I realized just how much the front end has degraded.
I'm getting some loud clunking on really sharp bumps. The new shocks helped a lot, but there's still noise coming out of what feels like the steering gear and linkage that we're trying to get sorted. Don't think it's the steering box itself and Tony says the tie rods and the trailing arm bearings themselves are solid, so the search continues. (The rag joint also looks OK.)
I think the plastic bushing at the top of the column is shot, but it's more than that.
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@El Frazoo, as others have stated, the white shocks are probably KYB but I haven't seen anyone mention that they come in two flavors. I had KYB GR2s, which I believe are not gas shocks and I liked them. The ride was fine. The KYB Gas-Adjust shocks are the ones that are too stiff, if memory serves me.
@Lane Anderson posted:@El Frazoo, as others have stated, the white shocks are probably KYB but I haven't seen anyone mention that they come in two flavors. I had KYB GR2s, which I believe are not gas shocks and I liked them. The ride was fine. The KYB Gas-Adjust shocks are the ones that are too stiff, if memory serves me.
Lane is correct. The white KYB Gas-Ajust will rattle your teeth out. The GR2 was discontinued a few years ago and was replaced by the Excel-G. The GR-2 shocks were grey, the Excel-G are black. They are a low pressure gas shock, but are still relatively stiff.
@Lane Anderson posted:@El Frazoo, as others have stated, the white shocks are probably KYB but I haven't seen anyone mention that they come in two flavors. I had KYB GR2s, which I believe are not gas shocks and I liked them. The ride was fine. The KYB Gas-Adjust shocks are the ones that are too stiff, if memory serves me.
The KYB GR2 shocks I have(sitting on a shelf) are silver. I cut the dust covers off, removed most of the bump stop, and rewelded the dust covers back in. Then sprayed the welded area with some kinda-matching silver(which is why I remember the color). The white KYB shocks are Gas-A-Just or something similar.
The GR2s were better once modified since they were no longer bottoming out.
But not as nice as the Konis. The Koni shocks are supple, riding firm without being harsh(like the GR2).
I have an earlier version of the Koni shocks from the 80s. They were really short and without the whole dust cover arrangement. Back then, you could get the bumper, dust cover, and a steel shock extension as factory VW parts. They were still available in 2017-2018 when I built the Spyder. The shocks came from Greg at Vintage for free, they were sitting on a shelf at his shop unused and new, but beat up from rolling around. I painted them with Krylon orange(factory correct Koni match) and got repro stickers. They looked brand new again.
My particular Koni shocks DO NOT bottom out, even though my beam is lowered some. I cannot speak for the length of the shocks today(even though Stan has kindly found and listed the length).
These are the bump stop/shock extension parts, no more plastic dust cover available from WCM:
https://www.westcoastmetric.co...rt-113-413-031e.html
Shorter stock shock to be used with bump stop/extension above:
https://www.westcoastmetric.co...4-thing-1973-74.html
Whole kit available here in the UK:
I really wish you had a PN for those shocks, Danny. I'm super-curious now.
@Sacto Mitch posted:.I'm getting some loud clunking on really sharp bumps. The new shocks helped a lot, but there's still noise coming out of what feels like the steering gear and linkage that we're trying to get sorted. Don't think it's the steering box itself and Tony says the tie rods and the trailing arm bearings themselves are solid, so the search continues. (The rag joint also looks OK.)
I think the plastic bushing at the top of the column is shot, but it's more than that.
Are you sure the sway-bar isn't hitting something now that you have suspension travel again?
@Stan Galat posted:I really wish you had a PN for those shocks, Danny. I'm super-curious now.
It's the same part number 80-1787 as I recall. Somewhere along the line Koni changed from the old style separate bumper/extension/dust cover to the all-in-one part of today.
I'll get the car up on the lift later and verify it.
@Sacto Mitch posted:.I'm getting some loud clunking on really sharp bumps. The new shocks helped a lot, but there's still noise coming out of what feels like the steering gear and linkage that we're trying to get sorted. Don't think it's the steering box itself and Tony says the tie rods and the trailing arm bearings themselves are solid, so the search continues. (The rag joint also looks OK.)
I think the plastic bushing at the top of the column is shot, but it's more than that.
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If it's not something hitting something else, I'm wondering if one of the shocks wasn't primed at installation. I had something like that once. I was told to remove the shocks, turn them upside down and run them through complete extension and compression a few times then re-install. No more clunking.
Of course, that might have been 50 years ago, but a shock is a shock.
@Stan Galat posted:Are you sure the sway-bar isn't hitting something now that you have suspension travel again?
The problem is Mitch hoons and makes the car dance. If he just did like 99% of the guys and putted around leisurely, he wouldn't have these problems.
Shame on him for having a good time, far beyond the design parameters of the People's car.
Every time I look at my Vee or my Spyder, I wonder if Herr Porsche is flopping over in his grave. I mean we ALMOST break the laws of physics with these contraptions.
Then we break parts instead.
@Stan Galat posted:The Koni 80-1787 shock for ball-joint front ends is listed as being 427 mm extended (16.811 inches), and 339 mm compressed (13.3465 inches). This means that they have about 3-1/2" of travel...
... The EMPI shocks are 15-1/4" extended and 10-1/2" compressed. I'd assume that's what the AC Industries shocks are too, but I think I'll call and check. I'm curious now.
I called SoCal this morning. I've got no idea where the measurements are taken, since the shock has a stud on the top which makes measurements approximate (are they to the tip of the stud? In the center of the rubber mounts on the stud?). But I had the guy who answered the phone pull one off the wall and measure from the tip of the stud to the center of the bottom mounting hole. He said, "about 17-1/2" extended and 13" compressed". That's 4-1/2" of travel.
I just went out to the shop and took off a front shock. It is a 2005 vintage Koni 80-1787, and fully extended my shock is about 19-1/8" from the center of the bottom mounting hole to the end of the stud and 14-3/8" compressed to those same points. There's about 1-1/2" from the end of the stud to where the shock mount rides (the center of the two rubber donuts on top of the shock). If we subtract 1-1/2" from the measurements, I'd say my shocks are 17-5/8" extended and 12-7/8" compressed. That means there's 4-3/4" of travel.
Subtracting that same 1-1/2" for the mounting donuts and nuts from the measurements the SoCal guy gave me - their shock for lowered ball-joint cars seems to come out to 16" extended and 11-1/2" compressed - or about 1-3/8" shorter than Konis on compression and 1-5/8" shorter on extension.
My car is on the lift with the suspension at full drop, and I measuring about 17-1/2" from mount to mount with the wheels hanging, which jibes (+/- 1/8") with my figures. When I took the shock off, the suspension had another 1/2" of available drop (I got 18-1/8" from the center of the bottom stud to the bottom of the top shock mount).
This is where I got especially proud of myself. I fully compressed the suspension by blocking up under the trailing arm and the lowering the car on the lift. Fully compressed, I measured 12-9/16" from the center of the stud to the bottom of the top shock mount. This means that my Koni shocks can bottom, but that there's only an additional 5/16" of suspension compression still possible after my shocks are fully compressed. If the shocks for lowered cars are shorter than 12-9/16" compressed, they're shorter than is useful to me (in the case of the SoCal shocks, 15/16" of an inch too short).
I'll put my car back on it's wheels and measured where my ride height is at static, but from what I'm seeing - if I'm running out of travel, the answer is to go with dropped spindles, not shorter shocks.
Your mileage may vary.
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It's not me and the way I thrash the car every time I'm at the wheel.
This is a fine machine that can handle such abuse. It was handcrafed from some of the finest parts ever to come out of third world sweatshops. It took nearly three weeks to build. It was in paint for almost two hours. The quality most definitely went in before the name went on.
No, the problem is largely our roads.
We hooners, of course, avoid the bright lights of the interstate. Too much scrutiny. We prefer to do our hooning far from the grasp of John Law's long, long arm.
Which means secondary roads Or maybe roads better described as tertiary.
Around here that means roads that may have last been paved 50 years ago. When holes and ruts develop out here in farm country, it's not cause for repaving. Repaving costs money, and that tends to get funneled to neighborhoods closer to the seats of power.
Instead, a patching crew is summoned (usually after the nephew of a legislator has bent a rim on his M3) and patching is done. When enough of the patching crumbles away, more patching is eventually done over the old patching. And so on, and so on, and so on. After a few decades of this, whole stretches of right of way are entirely patches upon patches upon patches.
While this admittedly adds some quaint charm to the rural stretches that we hooners favor, the resulting 'paving' seldom aligns with the grading intended by the original highway engineers. (If 'engineers' were ever formally involved in the paving at all.) Often, the surface at one spot aligns with no other spot in particular.
Now, all of this makes little difference to the dedicated hooner, or at least to the dedicated hooner helming a modern machine. Modern suspensions are simply miraculous in their abilities to mask the worst of a bad surface from the driver while maintaining enough feedback and uninterrupted contact with that surface to enable some creditable hooning, and while also doing this in enough quiet to allow all 14 speakers of the modern automotive sound system to be heard within the cabin.
But, alas, my suspension is anything but modern. In the best of times, the lack of modernity adds a new dimension to the hooning experience. More complexity. More unpredictability. More Je ne sais quoi.
And sadly, these are not the best of times. Something is rotten in Denmark, or at least something is loose in Sacramento. There's a clunking every time I hit one of those patches over patches over patches places at speed. There was some clunking before at times like these, but now's there's just more of a bad thing.
Yes, the swaybar does, uh, 'conflict' with the bumper bracket. But it has always done that. And, it does it on the rebound. This new noise is happening on the bound. When I jack up the beam, the wheels have to be nearly off the ground before the swaybar 'conflicts'. These new troubles are something else.
We took a swipe at sorting this on the first go around when it was discovered the shock absorbers were no longer absorbing any shock. I've done the required subsequent road testing and, while the clunking is much reduced with the new shocks, it (or another secondary clunking) is still there.
It's time for more scrutiny, more analysis, more head scratching, more disassembly, and ultimately, more Benjamins.
.
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Stan, I'm not doubting the soundness of your theoretical predictions for required shock length.
I'm just going on empirical data here.
When we plugged in the Koni on my car, it no go. And supposedly, the Koni we tried is the only one currently available for a ball joint beam.
There are probably many differences between the geometry on your car and what I've got (and I rully, rully wanted to fit Koni's), but them's the facts.
Tony reminded me that the very best way for me to go would be a new beam (with two adjusters) and lowered spindles so we could use the Konis.
I may eventually get there, but today's not the day.
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No, I really appreciate your honesty. Your story really resonated with me, which is why I tore apart the front of my car and started measuring.
I will periodically get a hard "clunk" from my front end as well. I also have standard spindles and am "dumped" on my adjusters. Measuring and looking at things today, I developed a theory (for my car, which may not apply to yours). The limit of my suspension travel is only a fraction of an inch more than the limit of my shock travel, but I still think I'm bottoming, because I think I'm probably only using the bottom inch or two of the spring.
The problem (and the only problem, IMHO) with dropped spindles is that they dump the car 2-1/2". Almost everybody says, "that's too much" and just uses the adjusters on the beam to get the car down. The thing is - I'll bet I'm 2-1/2" lower than most guys ride height already anyhow, and I think I'd rather scrape the bottom of the car on the road than keep running out of travel.
I proved to myself today that I've got the right shocks (for me, not for anybody else), so what is left is dropped spindles. I wish somebody made dropped spindles with less than 2-1/2" of drop, but I guess people figure that it's not worth the effort unless you're getting back to close to stock geometry, etc.
This entire effort is not meant for anybody else - but it's captivated my interest today. I'm genuinely curious now.
I think you're on the right track, Stan. I think you'll end up raising the beam an inch once you put the drop spindles on. Which of course, is totally fine.
Mitch, I hope you fix your bumpity bump stuff.
@Stan Galat, I may have missed it, but if your car has 2 adjusters, and they were installed in the neutral position, I can’t see how drop spindles would be a problem. If 2 1/2” were truly too low, the adjusters could be used to raise the beam.
I don’t understand the philosophy of just using one adjuster, besides trying to save a few dollars. When you lower a car using one adjuster, you have now taken load off one set of torsion bars and increased the load on the other set. When adjusters are used in tandem, you can adjust both equally and distribute the load evenly.
The car does have two adjusters - curiously, one Avis on top and one Sway Away on the bottom, so adjusting them with the same preload is going to be a trick. I'm not sure they were installed neutrally on the tubes. The top (Avis) adjuster is at the limit of its ability to drop the car, but the bottom seems to be screwed in to provide preload.
Once the car is back on the ground, I'll probably measure where I'm riding right now, then raise it on the adjusters to the limit of its ability to be raised. If I've come up 2-1/2", I'll install the dropped spindles. If not... I've got some decisions to make.
I’m not sure why anyone would install two different style adjusters, doesn’t make sense to me. If the dropped spindles aren’t the answer, maybe a Red 9 or Mendeola would scratch your itch. 
Sorry to be late back to the party. Looks like you all are carrying on just fineeeee.
- Replacement Koni rear shock (80 2149)
- Replacement Koni front shock (80 1787)
- Empi 3/4 rear sway bar (Cip1)
- Stock German heat treated front sway bar (Cip1)
- TRW Steering Box
- Higher tire pressure
The tire pressure was the key variable once I had everything all set up. It corners amazingly now. I turn in and if I am really on it I wait for just a touch of tail wag and treat it like it is drifting (even though it’s not). In every other “normal” situation racing around the hills, I turn in and the rear is just is effortless in following through. I talked with Stan, Danny, Joel and the board about what choices to make, and I think it is perfect. Maybe the next change will be even “more perfect,” but I’m very happy. It isn’t darting. It doesn’t oversteer, except as I describe above - just a hint when hooning, which works well because you are feeling for the drift anyway. This car handles beautifully. It drives like a Porsche and that is the highest compliment. On my “real” Porsches I could hammer into corners at double the signed suggested limits and it would feel fast, but right. I think the speedster might actually be a little faster than that, but it’s controlled. Maybe the ‘69S was a bit faster through twisties, but it’s been a long long time since I drove it (in 2001 it went back home to the motherland).
I have rambled enough.
Regarding Stan’s idea of the 5/8” front bar. I think that might be a great setup having tried the smaller front bar myself. I can’t really take much credit for the smaller front bar idea. It’s been tried by racers galore, and my long-time friend and P-car mechanic recommended it. I do believe he was right. @Stan Galat , we await your verdict. For now, I stay with stock front bar and 3/4” rear!
Oh, and I repeat my revelation. Your steering box affects your handling A LOT. Don’t forget it. I haven’t heard about Greg’s rack and pinion yet. I am sure it could be a great thing. Meanwhile, the TRW box is so light and smooth. I didn’t realize what a grinder what I had in there until I Fl%cked up my old one and had to put a TRW in. Great happenstance!
@LI-Rick posted:I’m not sure why anyone would install two different style adjusters, doesn’t make sense to me. If the dropped spindles aren’t the answer, maybe a Red 9 or Mendeola would scratch your itch.
It's a tight fit where the beam is nestled. I'm sure the two different styles of adjusters were to accommodate adjustability in the space available. Regardless, it makes adjusting in tandem "interesting".
Because of the tube-frame, no aftermarket A-arm front suspension I've ever seen would fit. I've considered doing an Airkewld beam with no leaves, set up like an airbag beam, then using coil-overs so I could corner-balance the car and set ride-height independently side to side. The problem is that an IM moves the beam mounts out to near the trailing arms, and I've got a Golf rack that's also got a mount welded to one of the tubes. There'd be nothing easy about replacing my beam.
That's what I meant when I said,
@Stan Galat posted:If not... I've got some decisions to make.
Alternatively, I could just leave it alone. I've enjoyed the car for 18 years as it sits.
@Teammccalla posted:On my “real” Porsches I could hammer into corners at double the signed suggested limits and it would feel fast, but right. I think the speedster might actually be a little faster than that, but it’s controlled. Maybe the ‘69S was a bit faster through twisties, but it’s been a long long time since I drove it (in 2001 it went back home to the motherland).
One of my perverse joys is to approach a particularly twisty corner at the posted speed limit. 99% of the time, it will attract an impatient driver to sit on my tail. Then, I don't drop speed through the corner, and usually add just a little because, you know "Don't lift." Marianne grits her teeth and I try not to chuckle too much as the car behind me goes into the corner with way too much speed. I know it's evil, but I enjoy it so much...
Mr. Picket: yes that is a kick. Mea culpa. Works especially well with my DD, an Accord Sport, particularly if I ask the turbo to step in.
As to the rest posted here, and there is a lot to cipher, I'm still not sure about what if anything I might do to improve things. Certainly swapping out shocks is pretty easy, and not too costly. [Perhaps it is nigh perfect as is, and "perfecter" is not within reach/budget. One of my sponsors at work schooled me in the philosophy which states that better is most often the enemy of good. So I think about that too.] When asked, I specifically told JPS that I wanted the car set up to handle -- at the time the word "hoon" was not in my vocabulary. And rightly or wrongly, I trusted JPS to understand this and put the car in that condition to the degree it could be done. I have thought to make the measurements as Stan has described, and then know a bit more about what goes on with my car and the way it's done (it does have ball joints, I know that; as to adjusters, number and type of spring leaves, or any such stuff, I know not, but could learn. I realize that stating that "my shocks are white" is pretty lame. )
@Michael Pickett posted:One of my perverse joys is to approach a particularly twisty corner at the posted speed limit. 99% of the time, it will attract an impatient driver to sit on my tail. Then, I don't drop speed through the corner, and usually add just a little because, you know "Don't lift." Marianne grits her teeth and I try not to chuckle too much as the car behind me goes into the corner with way too much speed. I know it's evil, but I enjoy it so much...
I do this in my pickup truck(99% of the time Michelle is not in the truck when I do this). Accelerating and driving the proper line gives a NICE exit speed, then I usually have to slow back down to the posted limit.
It's really funny when there is a "sport compact" behind me AKA fart-canned and clapped-out Suby or Honda, who promptly disappears from my mirrors into SLOW land.
I do it in the Spyder too, but that accelerates so quickly out of the corners it's almost too easy.
I do that with the "tuners", too. My DD has a couple of different "Sport Modes" that tighten up the suspension, re-calibrate the shift points and allow more turbo boost. There is a shopping mall near me that is accessed by an interstate off-ramp which is quite long and then does a 180 around to the right and another long stretch up to a light. If I see a tuner back there when exiting I can pop it into "Sport+" and hammer it through the 180 while watching said tuner disappear from view. This is best done when alone, for obvious reasons, but it even surprises me at how hard it bites through the turn and then launches out of it, all while shifting somewhere around 6,500 and making delightful screaming engine sounds. Can't do that with the Speedster, for sure.
Oooo, oooo, oooo - I do it too!
.... oh wait, we don't have any curves with posted limits...
nevermind
@Stan Galat posted:Oooo, oooo, oooo - I do it too!
.... oh wait, we don't have any curves with posted limits...
nevermind
Flatlander. I left the impression I was talking about the curve speed limit. I actually was referring to the road limit before the curve. Makes it more fun.
@Michael Pickett posted:Flatlander. I left the impression I was talking about the curve speed limit. I actually was referring to the road limit before the curve. Makes it more fun.
I got that.
Flatlander. I was called that once by someone from the Catskills. I live in the Hudson Valley in the Shawangunk mountains. Our "range" tops out at 1100-1200 feet or so.
The Catskills are over a mile high, so I get it.
But, we have one of the east coast's best mountain climbing and hang gliding spots, both about 20 minutes from my door. And some really nice twisty mountain roads. So there's that.
Me, a flatlander? I don't think so.
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@Michael Pickett posted:....One of my perverse joys is to approach a particularly twisty corner at the posted speed limit. 99% of the time, it will attract an impatient driver to sit on my tail. Then, I don't drop speed through the corner, and usually add just a little because, you know "Don't lift."...
@El Frazoo posted:.Mr. Picket: yes that is a kick. Mea culpa.
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@DannyP posted:....I do this in my pickup truck...
....I do it in the Spyder too...
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@Gordon Nichols posted:.I do that with the "tuners", too...
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@Stan Galat posted:.Oooo, oooo, oooo - I do it too!...
Gentlemen, this is just shameful behavior.
Taking advantage of defenseless hooners when they're at their most vulnerable — in the middle of a curve.
How can they use 500 HP to fight back at a time like that?
And you're all probably just rubbing it in by downshifting before you get to the curve, aren't you?
(Uh, just guessing about that part.)
Honestly, sometimes I don't know why I hang out here at all.
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But, I don't feel any shame!