356's

OK, Tell me again why I should not buy a real 356A/B/C and Should get a replica!

Getting closer to purchase time and I'm getting all confused:}

In its most simplistic reasoning;

(1) Personal preference and allotment of your disposable cash!!

(2) Real = peer pressure from P-car colleagues for 356 purity & exclusivity

(3) Replica = who cares what those P-car guys think, this replica is way too much fun!

...I'm just saying...

For the cost of a real coupe that needs work you can have a reeeeally nice replica convertible. Real convertibles can cost as much as your house.

Replica bodies don't rust, and the metal bits are all new (or at least newER).

Replicas are generally more powerful, have better brakes, and can have better suspensions than real ones.

Replicas are available with amenities such as power windows, A/C, etc.

Replica parts and maintenance costs are generally much lower.

We're a lot less stuffy than some (but by no means all) of the P-folks.

That said, the real ones are nice and there is no substitute for history - if that matters to you.

Rust and cost/availability of parts.

The 356 is a unitized body which rusts even in AZ. Structural floor pans rust, front fender back edge, and door bottoms too. If it isn't rusty now you either spend over $60k or its been temporarily covered with bondo.

356 parts are getting very costly if you can even find them NOS. Even parts like tie rod ends which are VW bug are priced 5x the VW part (doubt many other parts are interchangeable). VWs are simpler too - so easier to work on with the benefit of much cheaper more available parts.

My guess is insurance would reflect above too.

If it's to sit in garage or on a trailer as an investment - go original Porsche (a nice Cabriolet or Karman Knotchback with sun roof). If you'd prefer to drive it - go replica.

This is what i thought with respect to parts cost. I have been looking at 356 coupes here and there and for 35,000 it looks like a pretty well-restored car could be mine,but....? what happens when it needs some engine work. I know the real speedsters are way out of reach, but the coupes?. Has anyone got experience with past ownership of real coupes ;how they drive/road-feel verses the road -feel of your replica. That's the question I would have to have answered, most likely, but painstakingly test-driving and wasting the seller's time (of an old,real 356). O.K., I'm lazy. Here I am wanting free advice and subjective opinions but That is what this group is all about, right?

Peter,
I've driven real 356's and a couple replicas. If I could afford a real one I'd buy it. There is something about having that "soul" in the car, but it may just be me. I can say this -I drive my replica alot different than I would an original if I owned one. If you're looking for an investment, buy an original, If you're looking for a fun car to drive that grabs a lot of attention with no worries, buy a replica. My car is faster than an orignal but I've never noticed much of a difference in handling or braking from the few originals I drove, but I also didn't "drive" them. Remember, there is a difference between being able to "buy" an original and being able to "afford" an original.

Peter -

FWIW - Through the years, I've owned 7 Porsches 3 of which were 356 ('57 1600S, '61 Super90 and a '62). They were solid cars and fun to drive, but even in those days repairs/parts were costly.

Including ownership of four various 911's (and 25 year member of PCA & POC), our VS Speedy is hands-down the most fun car we've ever owned and this SOC group the most fun down-to-earth group of car folk to hang with!

EXCEPT FOR VINCE
HE IS THE REASON YOU SHOULD CONSIDER A REAL 356

Mickey and Jim : I really value your reponses. It is the kind of shared wisdom/experience that I just don't have. Good distinction: cost of purchase vs. cost of ownership. I am heading south to Disneyland with the kids in the Fall and will be visiting Vintage and JPS. So many people have unabashedly endorsed "Kirk" at Vintage that it would be hard to ignore the prudence implied in a VS purchase. On the otherhand JPS is still out there and "He" evidently has repeat clients.(I have read many,many posts that put the JPS car-buying experience in a cloud of misgiving...remorse(?)) My gut feeling is (and my wife contends) that I'll never be happy with a 50 year-old car. I have an old 1982 Alfa Spider that feels so sloppy and loose that I crave supple, solid and tight(spare me Vince) open road sports cars. I know,I know:I really need to get to a gathering of speedsterowners.com to meet y'all and sample the creations.

I hope some devoted JPS customers will weigh-in and try to help JPS sway me away from the other builder(s) just for a counterpoint perspective.As someone once said, here it sounds like a Vintage Speedster website what with the number of happy VS customers---That is a very good endorsement ..

Gerd; You were reading my mind--Ivebeen lurking here long enough to know when I'm setting myself up for a few choice shots from Vince.

This a fun gang and I aint met none of you yet.

Peter,
As you probably already know, owning an original means a lot more attention to upkeep. And ask yourself what you're after; having fun driving it or basking in the fake adoration of anal-retentive, passive-agressive P-car snobs.
Plus you may want to price out common Porsche replacement parts. Sticker shock!

This isn't the first time I've been used as a "bad example"
An example.....and I quote.
My wife works at a large company (Northrop) one day a woman walks into her office, looks at a pic of me on her desk and says "I know that guy", Teri promptly says "that's my Husband" to which she replied "you married that guy".....

hey Vince, I also have a pic of u in my office. When someone screws up in the office I make them keep your picture on their desk all day as punishment.

Peter,
There are lots of good reasons to pick a replica over a real 356, those reasons have been presented here.
The one really valid reason to pick the real over the replica is value. A nice, used replica will hold it's value for a number of years. An authentic 356, regardless of it's condition, will continually appreciate in value.
Solution? Buy a nice, well sorted used replica and a decent 356 driver. Have fun with one and watch your retirement fund grow with the other.

".......you can drive it like you stole it "

Peter, why not ask this question over at the 356 registry site and see what they have to say. Then you can decide what group seems to fit you. Just don't drop my name.....

This is a replica site... and as such, the perspective you'll get here will obviously be slanted towards the virtues of a replica. Over on "the Registry" site, you'd probably get a different opinion.

With an original 356, you get authenticity and history- and everybody should be aware that there's no way to replicate either of them. I can equip my car to appear about 99% original, and even fake a bit of patena to make the car look "old", but nothing will ever change the fact that it was built a couple of years ago. The authenticity and history of an original is kind of cool, and worth (a lot of) money- but it won't bring more than about 5 minutes of enjoyment looking at the car, and none at all driving it.

A replica is simply more usable. I can drive my speedster to the store, and leave it in the parking lot without feeling like I've left a 4 ft tall pile of $100 bills sitting unattended on the parking lot. I can change the exhaust for a merged unit, install a fire suppression system, or any one of a hundred other things- and not have destroyed a piece of history. I can "drive it like I stole it", bash the sump on a speed bump, and not need to take out a second mortgage to fix it. I can install a monster 200 h/p engine and all the related stuff, and never worry that the numbers don't match any more.

There are guys who do this kind of cool stuff with original 356s. They own islands, and these cars are trifles to be played with. The Emorys do this all the time. Their cars start at way over $100K and go up really, really fast from there.

With either car (original or replica), even a heavily modified one, you're going to have to live with 50- 70 year old technology- these aren't modern cars, and they reward people with some mechanical skills going into the deal.

To sum it up- If what people think matters to you, I'd buy an original. If you are a "car guy", and want to work on and improve your car- I'd buy a replica. If you just want to get in and drive it, rain or shine- I'd buy a nice used Boxter.

It's really up to you. These cars require some compromise. If you aren't willing to make them, you probably aren't a good candidate for owning one.

Yeah! I was just about to write just what Stan did. We think a lot alike. Good one, Stan, you beat me to it again.

Thanks, buddy.

Stan, My hat is off to you well said. (excuse the glare:) ~Alan

STAN U ARE THE MAN
GREAT POST

Excellent advice and a thoroughly reasoned answer from Stan. I get it.

I'm not a rich man and like the look;it's really about the period engineering/technology and the look. I get all that with the replicas. Yeah, I thought about the Boxster----naaaa,thats too boring. Want to get my hands dirty too.

By the way,this crowd here is so open and lively. Feels right to me,right here.

Peter : )

Welcome home ,Peter

Peter, at the risk of making Vince get all weepy I have to say that this crowd is as big a draw as the cars. Welcome to our own special brand of madness.

So Peter, where the hell is Penngrove, anyway....My fellow SOC'ers are mighty quick in accepting you into the fold, don't mistake that for any special privledges....You still need to run with us for a while....and wear a funny hat, perhaps one with a propeller on it..
Gerd, Jim, Marcos and I all have funny hats....think about it...

I have to say I've been feeling quite at home here for a while now. Penngrove is up in Sonoma County Just south of Santa Rosa,Vince.

Yes, this feels like the place for a tired car nut looking for comradery and appreciation for a simple,unpretentious motoring hobby.

Appreciate the hospitality,look forward to meetings in the new future.

Peter.

Buy a replica with a Porsche motor like mine :-)

Cal, you're insane for doing that.
I'm just sayin' ...

I've only driven thru Sonoma, but have spent some time in Napa, great area for a speedster, the roads are magnificent....
Northern Cal is the bomb...

I'd buy an original. They don't cost much more than the replicas.

I love the sign that used to be at the entrance to Sonoma valley: "Sonoma makes wine, Napa makes auto parts"

Stan pretty much nailed it but there is one additional thing to consider and that is that these replicas can actually go places.

Many of the SOC members actually go places in our cars, for example to the national show in Carlisle, PA; Marty from Chicago, Lane from Charleston, SC and me from Arkansas. Same to the fall Smokey Mountain event. I would never consider driving a steel "real" 1957 356 Speedster or coupe more than a few miles. I trust my car to get me there and bring me back home without breaking down. A few of us are planning to attend Morrow Bay next Spring---by actually driving outr cars out and back. That's a huge difference between a real Speedster and one that you can go someplace in.

The payoff to these trips is the great folks you will be hanging out with---just peruse this site to see what I'm talking about (Well--for the most part). That's why we drive these cars--they are not just "garage Queens."

And you get the great Speedster l-o-o-k and SEG the whole time you are on the road.

Good luck with your decision. ---Jack

Vince,
Come on up. I'll show you some great roads.
Bring your own Oban.

Hey Peter,

There are a lot of good advices here on making your replica or real decision, however, you should also check with the 356 registry and see what they say. You can get the feel which one accept you as a car enthusiast.

Once you have made up your mind in getting the real or replica, then if you decide to go the replica way, then your decision is to get the speedster or coupe.

If you decide to go speedster, then you have a lot of choices, like Vintage, JPS, Thunder Ranch, etc, not to mention Intermeccanica which is the gold standard for these replicas, they also make the convertible.

However, if you decide to get the coupe, you only have 2 choices, JPS and SAS. I have a JPS Coupe so I am biased, but it is highly recommended for you to visit him very soon, as you might see Gerd's car being finished. He has a lot of individual touches, but you can see what John can do.

Good luck, but these should be a fun decision to make

Eddy

Oh yeah, making the build choices is one of best parts!

Lane is right! He's also right about amenities, such as radio, disc brakes, automatic transmission and cruise control, oops almost forgot 173 stock hp without any engine mods, over 300 if you go the turbo version, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

All good! The enthusiasm and support is incredible! You're all mad! I love it.

Definitely want to come down to Morro Bay even if I don't have a car of my own,yet. Really need to see,touch,feel,hear and smell the differences in the makers. But am also looking for the comradery and shared passion.In the meantime I'll be meeting Vintage and JPS this fall. Naturally this is very exciting.

Cheers to all of you!

Just read Cal's post from Australia. The Porsche engine at that kind of cost differential is nuts . That is the quetion I had when I started this thread. Answers the first key quetion. Sold on a replica thank-you-very-much.

Sucks to live in Australia with a scarcity like that. Spoiled having grown up here in California with the(car)culture.

Peter, don't forget the hat with the propeller....
I'll have my UPS girl deliver it...