36hp shroud

I currently have an original shroud w/plugs over where the heater hoses went. It looks "crappy" and since I don't, and won't, have heat in my car, I ordered a new 36hp shroud for looks. I was wondering if there is anything I should look out for when I go to install it? It's from Cip1 and it lists that it fits all 1600cc from 71-75 so I'm assuming I'll be able to use all the existing hardware? My engine is a standard 71 vw 1600cc with dual solex carbs, nothing fancy, it's pretty straight forward. I'm just hoping to get a little more traditional look and maybe a little better cooling with the new shroud.

It'll fit fine with all your existing hardware and will look cooler (more like an original 356 engine) but it will never work as efficiently as a German OEM '71-up doghouse shroud. That's why I switched my 36 hp style shroud and engine tin for German OEM stuff.

I added the thermatat flaps but spot welded them open and cut off the linkages for cleaner a look.

I dont beleive you have to add them, but I did to correctly guide the air onto the heads and jugs.

I wish they offered a dtm like the 36 hp shroud. I made one for my T-4 . I wish I could just buy one for my T-1 and avoid the hassle of dismantling a fan shroud and then putting it back together after twisting it into a DTM. I remade all the veins inside it back to specs, TIME CONSUMMING.

I don't realy want to have to make another.

Well Barry, I've seen the Type I DTM's offered for $399.00 by Serrano's on The Samba.com.

i agree with ricardo, nothing cools as good as the original vw beetle stuff. I have a scat chrome 36hp style shroud with a dog house oil cooler and it's going straight in the garbage!!!! That thing is JUNK. Not only are the heater fresh air outlets useless, but the actual shroud gets really hot.
i'm going back the the oem vw tin, and thermostat/flaps setup, alot of people just don't realize how important the thermostat/flaps are for a long lived engine. I find without the thermostat in my bug, now at this time of year the oil temperatures never go over 130*deg F, which is WAY too cold, this reduced engine life, creates fun to clean brown goo at the breather vent, and really shortens engine life, it's prooven that engine's show half the wear at operating temps between 180*F - 195*F, then lower. sorry for the long post.

So, I getting the feeling the general consensus on these 36hp shrouds is to NOT use them?
I drive my car almost everyday in the spring, summer and fall. I don't do a lot of long distance driving and the engine isn't "high performance" in any way. I guess what I'm getting at is, are these things THAT BAD? Am I putting my little 1600cc T-1 at risk? If it is that debilitating and distructive to an engine why are they available at all? What purpose do they srerve? I could just send it back and get an original doghouse W/out the heater vents. I was hoping for a more authentic look, but not at the risk of damaging my engine!

the 36hp shroud was re-designed in 1992, and modified to run on a late T1 doghouse oil cooler setup. If you hold the 2 side by side, you see the difference. Don't throw yours out, they have many uses, huge paperweight, wall orniment, fustration outlet (also requires hammer)!!!.
poeple liked the look of the 36hp shroud, they look more round than the oval later models. I'd just get the original vw shroud with the heater outlets, never say never, one day you might want heat, besides if you go to any hardware store you can get pvc block-offs that fit right on the outlets (2" i think). I thought i'd never want heat in my bug, then i put it in - the best thing i've ever done to that car, now i drive it 11 months of the year instead of 6 or so.
Remember, not only is it important to have the oe shroud, but the thermostat, and flaps in the shroud. Your engine will be alot happier, and last longer. Even in hotter climates it's important to keep oil temps in a range, rather than constantly over-cooling.

Well Mickey, what Martin says is 100% right but I wouldn't go as far as saying that the 36 hp shrouds are paperweights since a lot of engines out there use them but one thing is for certain; they don't have all the correct vanes as designed by the factory. In fact, Jake Raby did a test and found one of those 36 hp style fans that worked as good or even better than the OEM. He said that since said manufacturer changed its design it's not even worth it to mention it; plus it had some sort of a dispute in terms of the design with another manufacturer.

Me, being the nitpicking type, decided to swap to original OEM fan and tin.

ricardo, my CHROME shroud is not even good enough to be a paperweight!!!! lol. I'm gonna smash it just cause i can!!! that thing gets soo hot you can't even hold your hand on it, while my oem shroud stays stone cold. The 36hp shrouds with the heater ducts really are bad, almost no air comes out of the fresh air vents, all it is is a pipe cut at about a 20deg angle, and there's no veins in the shroud to direct air to the fresh air outlets. But i guess if you paint one, and don't want heat they would cool the motor ok, but the chrome ones are JUNK!!!

Well my paperweight, er I mean, 36hp shroud arrived today. I'll admit I don't know much about fan shrouds but this seems to be OK? It's black (not chrome, has 7 veins(?)in it, and looks as if it's designed to direct air to the oil cooler(?).
As for heat, I really don't have any intention of ever putting heat in my car, I can only imagine the fogging issues it would create, and it would almost be pointless to drive with the top down and heat on. If I am ever in the market for a Speedster with heat, AC, defog, etc... I'll be calling Henry. But for now this one will do fine without. So again, should it stay or should it go? I'm only looking for it to cool a normal 1600cc and for it to look "neater".

mickey - actually the heat does come in handy even with the top down on those cool nights, and the defrost actually works.

Your new shroud will cool the motor fine, infact it might over-cool the motor, the chrome ones really get hot (as does mine) but what you really need to do is install the thermostat and flaps. The oem shroud would for sure be a beter choice.

Agree with Martin 100%; with the OEM shroud you'll notice increased heated air flow into the cabin as compared to the 36 hp style. In the end that's what I did; it might not look as cool but it works as the factory intended.

Martin and Ricardo,
Thanks so much for your input and knowledge. I'm in no hurry to do anything so I guess I'll kick it around for awhile before I decide.

mickey - i know where your comming from, after about 7 years being deep into bugs, i am finally starting to "listen" and read what the old school guys are saying after having first hand expirence with the normal mods done to a air cooled vw motor. Everything in the end comes back to the stock setup, and parts, even the damm air cleaner for a stock 34pict3 carb!!! if you have dual carbs then this does'nt apply, BUT the fan shroud, thermostat and flaps serve a purpose, and without them your motor will run, but not last as long as it would with these parts. Sure the 36hp shrouds look cool, but the OEM stuff works better. Start daily driving your car and you'll see all the little issues that come up like too cold oil temps, nice brown goo comming out of your breather, and accellerated wear on the cylinders from running too cold oil temps. Now i know your speedster is a "fair weather" car, but it could really benifit from the thermostat/flaps/OEM shroud in the long run. I'm driving my beetle almost all year (with the mild winters now a days) and i'm going back to a stock setup with the bug. My speedster on the other hand will get a OEM VW shroud, proper heater boxes, therostat/flaps, ect.....but i'll stick with the dual dellortos for the power increase. Even though now you say you'll never want heat in your speedster, you'd be supprised with how well the proper stock vw heating system works, it lets you use your car even more with heat, even with a open speedster; it just takes the "chill" out of a cool night where you'd otherwise not drive the car.

Not to mention that the heater takes the fog off the windshield. I do not have heaters. Fog is a problem. Trust me I know.

Hey Ricardo, which exhaust are you using? I like the way it looks.

Well Darren; that's a Tri-Mil exhaust that from what I've seen gets modified for Speedster use by Vintage Speedsters; it's like they tilt down the tailpipes so that it clears the rear apron. I've read that the Tri-Mil for Type 2 Buses also works for Speedsters but I don't know first hand. From our experience it might or might not clear the rear apron on a CMC.

Dang it, thats what I thought. I have the 4 Tip monza and really like the tri mill. Might just have to get one and take it down to the muffler shop to get it fit properly.

My DTM does surpass the cooling of a stock system in both overall average temperature as well as temperature delta between all 4 cylinders. It also effectively utilizes the larger Type 4 oil cooler and shoves 20% more cooling air through it- something that can't be done with any other system.

It took me 8 solid months to beat the stock system, the other systems were their own worst enemies!

I ran across this - read the notes on it, they mention installing it on a Speedster replica

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2D35067&CartID=1

Micky-

I bought one of the first of these to hit the US market several years (and cars) ago. It was an ill-fitting disappointment. I'd pass.

In my case that's what it had originally from the shop but I strongly suspect it was also modified to fit the Speedster. It's also more restrictive (1-3/8" tubing) but that was the more originally looking and cost effective alternative at the time I had my car built.

So if one was looking for a more stock-looking version of that type exhaust what would you all recommend, tri-mill? Please keep in mind I have an original 1600cc engine with no plans to "trick it out". I'm just looking for ways to make my engine and car look better, not necessarily perform better.

My opinion is that the Tri-Mil looks more authentic than the VW Mexico or EMPI knock-off.

The Tri-Mil would be perfect for your car- you'll love it.

Looks like I will be making another Shroud but out of a stock t-1 I have't forgot what it was like taking the other one apart but this time

Im making patterns of everything and taking lots of notes. I want to figue out exactly what the folks in germany did.

Most vws I have seen have the flaps removed or wired open. as long as you start slow on start up a averge T-1 will be at operatig temp in about 5 minutes. Now in the dead of winter it needs to idle first for 5 minutes or so. Or thick oil can blow the oil cooler. i keep hereing the same thing over and over from owners around here. they just wire them open.

I don't think this has been mentioned here as yet, but, it's worth a mention.

Anytime you install chrome parts such as upper, lower or shroud tin, they get hotter than those that are painted flat black.

Powder coating is nice but it too retains heat.

The flat black stock OEM tin radiates heat away from the tin and thus, stays cooler. Engine cases that are powder coated also retain heat.

If you're going to paint your engine, I suggest a ""thin"" coat of flat black as it will also radiate heat from the case.

Yelp thats right . they will be hotter.

I wish some one would just make a aluminum set up even if its only brushed aluminum it would realy help disapate heat.

I've been talkin with a fella wanting to build a bug truck with a type 3 engine.

How good is the T-3 cooling system?

Actually, I've seen aluminum tin for a Type 1 engine. Very expensive and I don't have a clue as to the manufacturer.

The stock type 3 cooling system is horizontal as opposed to the type 1's vertical system. That means that the cooling fan is driven directly by the crank and forces air across the top of the cylinders.

Back in the 70's I built a 2180cc engine using stock type 3 cooling and it ran "real hot" and that was in an open sandrail (dunebuggy)

I also built an 1835cc type 3 (early pre injected engine) for a customers notchback, it seemed to be OK heat wise but all that was done was to increase the bore from 85.5 mm's to 92 mm's.

Maybe today, someone has modified that system so it will cool better but I seriously doubt it.

My fried will need to read this post I dont know if he will like the bad news .

I wonder if a suby engine will fit under his truck bed that might be what he will have to go to.

I did a real quick nip and tuck on a stock fan shroud removeing the heater outlets and lettiing the air divert down into the heads, then expaned the oil cooler tin and outlet vent for a T-4 oil cooler.


I hope it will be enough for my 1720 cc bug engine 85.5 x 74 only a 8.25 compression twin carbs. 1 and 5/8 sidewinder exhaust.

I hope its enough to cool it

Actually, 85.5 bore with a 74 mm stroke is 1699 cc's

For a 4 cylinder engine.....bore x bore x stroke x 3.1416 = engine dimension
(Example, a stock 1600 cc VW engine has 85.5 mm bore and a 69 mm stroke 85.5 x85.5 x 69 x 3.1416 = 1584 cc's... In your case, 85.5 x 85.5 x 74 x 3.1416 = 1699 cc's)



For an engine with more or less than 4 cylinders.... bore x bore x stroke x .7854 x number of cylinders = engine dimension

(Example, Porsche 3.0 engine with a 95mm bore and 70.4mm crank
95 x 95 x 70.4 x .7854 x 6 = 2994 cc's


This can be used for engines with inch dimensions also
(Example, Ford 302 cid 4 inch bore and 3 inch stroke
4 x 4 x 3 x .7854 x 8 = 301.59

Thank you Larry for sraighting me out. So its a fare statement to call it a 1700 and leave it at that. but it should have a little more touqre.

I let Mr Vestal have the fan shroud this afternoon. But it has not been DTM ed

I only expanded the oil cooler cavity to a t-4 and tinware that ataches on the back. that was the main monifacation.

I also removed the heater pipe snouts then snipped the inner vein and bent it againt the walls inside and spot welded them and capped off the openings Now the heater air goes to the heads.

Do you think this enough, for a engine this mild ? It will be twin carbed, and full flowed with remote oil filter, which the builder requires in his warrantiee, but no remote oil cooler.


HEATER Is now electic with twin heat guns 5000 BTU's each and a separate 100 amp alternater

So long as you use good quality tin, the 1700 cc engine should dissipate heat with no problem. Having a Type IV oil cooler is a big advantage

Having the full flow system also gives you the opportunity to add an external oil cooler at a later time, should you need it, without any problems.

When it comes time to screw on an oil filter, DON'T use a FRAM HP1, go to your local NAPA auto parts store and buy a WIX 51515R. (Some NAPA stores carry this filter under the part number 1515R) I've done a great deal of research on these filters and I feel that they are a quality item.

WIX makes filters for NAPA so it doesn't make any difference which part you purchase but regardless of part number, the WIX 51515R or NAPA 1515R are a far superior oil filter and is pressure rated to 500psi

Thanks Larry/ Is that the same as a Rabbit Diesel filter it sure sounds like one on my T-4. its also is rated at 500 psi.

Sorry but I'm not sure if it will fit a Rabbit Diesel but I do know that it far exceeds a FRAM HP1 in filtering qualities