Lads, I see some speedsters have 4 bolt wheels and others have 5 bolt. Could someone pls. give a small dissertation on what are the implications / benefits / drawbacks of either? Choices in disc brake conversions ? Tire size opportunities ? etc. Anything to do with IRS vs Swing Axle ? Thanks...
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The wide 5 (5x205mm) pattern was, of course, original on pre A, A and B series 356's (and beetles until 1967-very important for our purposes). To put wide 5 drums on a ball joint front end requires '66 or 67 front drum/brake assemblies, and on the irs I believe you'll need the complete brake assemblies as well, and will need a 5/8" spacer under the axle nut to make up for the longer splines. While there are discs available in the wide 5 pattern, there aren't as many choices like there are for the 4 bolt (4x130mm) or Porsche (5x130). If you use an older swing axle (to '66) trans you'll get the short axle/short spline axle and tube assemblies for the narrowest stock rear suspension, and greatest ease at getting wider tires and rims under the back fenders. Wide 5 drums use slightly narrower brake shoes (I think), and (I know) can't be drilled for the 5x130mm pattern.
4x130mm drums came on '68 beetles with longer (long axle/long spline) swing axles. Starting in 1969 all beetles in the U.S. came with irs, while in Canada some cars still came with swing axle suspensions until about 1973? You can retrofit 4 bolt rear drum assemblies to short/short swingaxles by cutting 5/8" off the snout of the drum, and front 4 bolt drums and brakes will fit '66-'67 ball joint front ends. I think that the later drums can be adapted to king/link pin front ends by using different bearings, but don't quote me on that.
Irs trailing arms can be narrowed for wider tires/rims, and with the 4x130 (and Porsche) pattern there are more choices for disc brakes, starting with Karmann Ghia discs for the front and 914 style discs with a variety of different calipers for the rear. There are even different choices for vented and/or bigger fronts and bigger rears.
I'm sure I've left a ton of sh*t out and if anyone notices any errors, please feel free to correct me. Al
PS- Forgot to mention- If you can find them, earlier (short/short) swing axles can be used on any swing axle trans for wider tire clearance; you'll need the appropriate axles and tubes. If you're getting these out of a donor trans get the fulcrum plates as well, as good ones are getting hard to come by, and if you're buying a set from someone, see if they'll throw in a set of fulcrum plates.
Another PS- If you're going for the "outaw" look it's wide 5 rims and no hubcaps....
ALB is this the outlaw look you mentioned? In addition, great dissertation on bolt patteren and wheels.
Yeah, she looks bad enough; just sayin'...
Your talking about the rim and wheel right?
ALB, My God you're mind is like a data base. Did you ever work for VW US or Canada? I don't recall your name from the corporate files! perhaps Wolfsburg? I'm going to have to contact the old crew in Ontario or Aurburn Hills Mi.
Craig
You need to carry or find a tire store with the special adapter to balance wide 5 rims by high speed spinning them (unless you are happy with old fashion static bubble balancing).
Are we sure David is talking about wide-5, and not a Porsche drilling 5 lug hub?
If it is the latter, that is easier to accomplish. 4-lug EMPI brake kits are available with Porsche drilled hubs. The kits are cheap, and require no new this-'n-thats (in addition to what's required for the 4-lug kits).
Going wide-5 is an order of magnitude harder. The smart money is on Porsche-drilled hubs and Fuchs or some other cool later P-car wheel.
What Tom said 
Craig- If you'd spent as much time as I have playing with VW's over the years....
I drove beetles for the first 15 years or so of my driving career and was mainly concerned with making it faster, hanging out at a friend's shop a lot of the time and drinking a lot of beer; you know, your typical mis-spent youth. If I'd only paid more attention at Don's shop; I missed so much (thanks beer!), and he's long gone now.
I thought I'd covered it all, but you're probably right Stan. I forgot to mention that anything that was the later 4 bolt can be drilled to the later 5 lug (5x130mm) pattern, so more options there too. As I said, stock VW to aftermarket replacement and even bigger 944 vented discs and monster sized calipers (big weight gain here).
Thanks for the info, Al
I was talking about wide-5's which is what's on my current Speedster. I have a line on another vehicle and it has 4-lug wheels and I just wanted a bit of background info so I may know what I'm getting into. I've no ambitions for Fuchs etc.
Dave: I think it's a general consensus that wide five's look cooler and more "correct" for an early Porsche, and 4 x 130 IRS works a little better in the corners.
And like ABL said, the later hubs are easier and cheaper to upgrade to disc brakes.
Possible dumb question here. I now have a swing axle rear end and have no problems with ground clearance with my stock Soob oil pan. I hear others say that installing a Soob engine will require a shortened oil pan for decent ground clearance, hence this question. Does an IRS rear end hang the engine lower than a swing axle rear end ?
Thanks...
They make the parts to put wide 5 discs on irs arms and a ball joint front end, David, so that's not a problem. And the engine position doesn't change between rear suspensions.
Mine's a bit of a low rider, Dave. I've got 5 inches under my (shortened) pan.
