4 bolt to 5 bolt

Depends.  On a classic non-flared body and 5.5" rims with IRS there is probably NOT enough room to use an adapter (spacer) in the back.  You can buy properly drilled new rear drums (CIP1 $144 each).  On the front - I'd recommend their wide five front disc brake kit.  Disc mean no front brake adjustment and better braking.  You could use an adapter on the front as there's plenty of room in front wheel wells.

Thanks - No mods needed with those rear drums?

Will purchase a classic body car, prefer to avoid adapters

JB

Check out those alloy wide fives from http://www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com - they run $160-170 each but are great looking.  They have 4" backspacing.

I purchased the rear Italian drums for $65 each at So Cal Imports, simply undo the axle nut (I'm renting the multiplyer/torque-tool out if you're interested) and bolt them on. Part number: 113501615 DIT

The front of mine has discs and I want discs so I purchased the Wide 5 front disc kit which was $380. Part number: 498520 V I've not installed them yet as I had some engine trouble that interrupted the wheel change process...

Here's a shot of the Vintage 190 wheels (polished-4 1/2" wide) without hubcaps

and here they are with hubcaps, they are 6 lbs lighter than the 5 1/2" steel wheels

JB Nash posted:

Is it as simple as machining a spacer for the rear end, and installing 67 drums upfront?

thanks much!

JB

Close. In the back you may find that the later brake shoes are wider; I'll have to look in my notes, as you may be able to machine the inside of the drum deeper to use the later shoes. You'll need a 5/8" spacer underneath the castle nut. Listen to people for the front; go discs. Yeah, it's more expensive, but in a panic stop from 80mph the brakes in a Beetle will fade and you'll have nothing at 30-40mph, so do the smart thing and be safe. Al

From my technical database... if you look at Vintage Speedsters, this may help.    This is from the work done on my Vintage Speedster in 2014.  ( pricing may vary today) ...Happy hunting!

-----------------

2013 built VS Speedster
Builder Alignment and Brake Specs:
Builder- Kirk Duncan, Vintage Speedster, Hawaiian Garden, CA

CAR base: 1972 pan, ball joint front, and rear short swing axle (not IRS. Car has been modified to short swing axle)

Front end Alignment
- 16th” on both sides toe in
- ¼ degree negative camber

Rear end Alignment
- 0 toe in

Brake System- installed by builder:
Front – 4 lug Disk brake kit by AC industries. Uses non OEM front spindles specific to the disk kit.

Rear- 4 lug drum brake (w/ e-brake), uses OEM brake shoes #270 (1965-1967).
Note: bake shoes #315 (1968-1979) are too wide. If installed as replacement to #270, they will rub/bind the drum.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CONVERSION OPTIONS- to convert to a wide-5 set up while keeping appropriate body clearances and keep modifications to a minimum, following two options available form A/C Industries. 

1) For front & rear disk brake set up:
- Front- Ball joint specific wide 5 bolt front disc kit for VS speedster.
-Rear- 5-wide bolt disc kit with e-brake for short swing axle.

Note: you will need to replace the front non-OEM front spindles used with the 4 bold disk kit and install front OEM spindles to install the AC industries Wide-5 front disk kit.

Parts list from A/C Industires:
Front kit 498520V $379.95
Disc dual M/C 113611020BDD $37.95
LT drum spndl. 113 405 311ERE $40.95 Used OE, reconditioned
RT drum spndl. 113 405 312ERE $40.95 Used OE, reconditioned
Rear kit 111698601DNS $369.95

Or

2) For front disk and rear drum set up:
- Front- Ball joint specific wide 5 bolt front disc kit for VS speedster. (same parts as above).
Note: you will need to replace the front non-OEM front spindles used with the 4 bold disk kit and install front OEM drum spindles (OEM part for yrs 1969-1977) to install the AC industries Wide-5 front disk kit.

- Rear- 5-wide rear drums, Qty 2- OEM part for 1967 (correct part number to use with #270 brake pad set up currently installed in the car. If your car uses #315, the drum hub will need to be machined down to allow for the wider brake pads.).  Part # for Rear wide 5 lug drums #113 501 615DIT ( Italian made)- to fit #270 ('65-'67) brake pads

Additional notes:
- A/C industry front disk kit is a 0 offset kit.
- Replacing 4 bold rear drum hub with 5 bolt rear drum (OEM part for 1967) will reduce offset by ¼ “ (give you an additional ¼” of clearance between wheel and car body).

For questions regarding installation of AC industries Call: Andy Shoe, Owner So Cal VW

----------------------------------------

Don't forget to take into consideration the offset of the wheels you will be installing.  Both the Cip1 and the Vintage speedsters aluminum wheels clear all fenders... I have installed both, and currently run the aluminum Vintage Speedsters 190s.

Lfepardo posted:

From my technical database... if you look at Vintage Speedsters, this may help.    This is from the work done on my Vintage Speedster in 2014.  ( pricing may vary today) ...Happy hunting!

-----------------

2013 built VS Speedster
Builder Alignment and Brake Specs:
Builder- Kirk Duncan, Vintage Speedster, Hawaiian Garden, CA

CAR base: 1972 pan, ball joint front, and rear short swing axle (not IRS. Car has been modified to short swing axle)

Front end Alignment
- 16th” on both sides toe in
- ¼ degree negative camber

Rear end Alignment
- 0 toe in

Brake System- installed by builder:
Front – 4 lug Disk brake kit by AC industries. Uses non OEM front spindles specific to the disk kit.

Rear- 4 lug drum brake (w/ e-brake), uses OEM brake shoes #270 (1965-1967).
Note: bake shoes #315 (1968-1979) are too wide. If installed as replacement to #270, they will rub/bind the drum.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CONVERSION OPTIONS- to convert to a wide-5 set up while keeping appropriate body clearances and keep modifications to a minimum, following two options available form A/C Industries. 

1) For front & rear disk brake set up:
- Front- Ball joint specific wide 5 bolt front disc kit for VS speedster.
-Rear- 5-wide bolt disc kit with e-brake for short swing axle.

Note: you will need to replace the front non-OEM front spindles used with the 4 bold disk kit and install front OEM spindles to install the AC industries Wide-5 front disk kit.

Parts list from A/C Industires:
Front kit 498520V $379.95
Disc dual M/C 113611020BDD $37.95
LT drum spndl. 113 405 311ERE $40.95 Used OE, reconditioned
RT drum spndl. 113 405 312ERE $40.95 Used OE, reconditioned
Rear kit 111698601DNS $369.95

Or

2) For front disk and rear drum set up:
- Front- Ball joint specific wide 5 bolt front disc kit for VS speedster. (same parts as above).
Note: you will need to replace the front non-OEM front spindles used with the 4 bold disk kit and install front OEM drum spindles (OEM part for yrs 1969-1977) to install the AC industries Wide-5 front disk kit.

- Rear- 5-wide rear drums, Qty 2- OEM part for 1967 (correct part number to use with #270 brake pad set up currently installed in the car. If your car uses #315, the drum hub will need to be machined down to allow for the wider brake pads.).  Part # for Rear wide 5 lug drums #113 501 615DIT ( Italian made)- to fit #270 ('65-'67) brake pads

Additional notes:
- A/C industry front disk kit is a 0 offset kit.
- Replacing 4 bold rear drum hub with 5 bolt rear drum (OEM part for 1967) will reduce offset by ¼ “ (give you an additional ¼” of clearance between wheel and car body).

For questions regarding installation of AC industries Call: Andy Shoe, Owner So Cal VW

----------------------------------------

Don't forget to take into consideration the offset of the wheels you will be installing.  Both the Cip1 and the Vintage speedsters aluminum wheels clear all fenders... I have installed both, and currently run the aluminum Vintage Speedsters 190s.

This is excellent information.  I've copied it and saved it for future reference.  Thank you.

The rear CIP1 5 wide drums are for the IRS rear (68up) and they accept the wider 40mm (than swing axel but not T3) rear shoes.  Will - yours is swing-axel so has the narrower brake shoes --- with that set up could you have gone with the 5 1/2" wheels (vs the 4 1/2")?  Since offset is same - they would stick out 1" more.

If anyone needs non-lowered ball joint front OEM drum brakes spindles  - required by some of the conversion kits (as cited above) - I'm willing to trade for disc brake front spindles either std height or dropped.  I have pair of calipers but need spindles and rotors. 

I could've gone with 5 1/2" wheels but I'm matching the "real" Porsche width and look.

I didn't need any spacer for the axle nut and the brake shoes fit the backing plates and shoes perfectly.

Wolfgang (or anybody),

If you want my previously installed 4 bolt AC industries Front disk kit (calipers, disk, spindles... everything that came out of the car except the brake lines, they were crap) , and rear 4 bolt hubs they are yours.

- Free of charge, you just pay for shipping (I'm in Seattle, 98144)

- I pulled them off my car with less than 4000 miles (if memory serves me, to install the Wide 5 kit.  They worked great.  They have been sitting in my parts shelve since 2014, and was thinking of trading for them... but now, I just want them out as i'm starting to accumulate to many "extra parts" I know I will never use.

Send me a PM if you are interested. I can take some pictures of the parts if you are interested.

Cheers,

I also have the 4 bolt pattern wheels and baby moons that came with the car. I belive kirk gets them from SoCAl imports.. Qty 4, chrome, if anyone wants them... also Free Of Charge- you pay shipping.

... I feel empowered to make some room in my parts shelve. ;-)

Send me a PM if you are interested.

Cheers,

Luis

Luis - I sent you PM on the front disc setup.  

Can't beat that deal.

Thanks all, for all the great info!

JB

@wolfgang , sorry for the late reply... I will get back to you with the specifics tomorrow afternoon... i'm just traveling back home from Spain today. Cheers

Luis,

You're a gentleman and a scholar. At the end of a pretty long week, reading your generous offer to your SOC brethren is really helping restore my appreciation for humanity again. 

Kinder words than I deserve Stan.  Many thanks.   With all the help this community has provided me over the years, paying it forward by sharing my extra parts is the least I can do.   ;-)

quick update on the parts;

- the front disk kit is now spoken for and will be on its way to a new home this weekend.

- the (Qty 4)  chrome 4 bolt pattern 5.5" wheels and baby moons still available.

- I also found  the (qty 1) grey 4 bolt pattern 4.5" wheel ( used as spare- fits frunk) --- also available.

- (qty 2) rear drums ( to fit #270 brake pads) still available.

all parts pulled from my VS built car with less than 4000 miles ( when I installed my wide 5s).   i can send pictures if your interested... parts free of charge, you pay shipping ( I'm in Seattle 98144)

i only wish someone local was going/driving to Carlile to be able to get these parts to anyone interested. 

cheers,

Here's my input. Buy the aftermarket drums. I have got them from CIP1 and had good luck. As for the front buy a ZERO offset disc brake kit with the 5x205 pattern for a ball joint beam. Either buy CSP or airklwed. My spelling is off on the airkweld.  Don't waste time on SoCal, empi or other brands. You need the zero offset for the tires not to rub. All those other kits move the wheels out 10mm.