Is there any easy conversion for a highway gear in our cars? Either a direct 5 speed swap or to add an overdrive?!?
Any suggestions?
I feel at highway speeds I'm always wanting to grab another gear...
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Gene Berg Ent. will lengthen your pinion and mainshafts, perform all the necessary machining on your parts and provide a new trans nose cone and 5 speed shifter. Read-
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=13_387
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=5SpeedConversionKit&cPath=389
The kit is $1647, but with the core trans, close gears, mid mount, shifter, a super diff or quaife, assembly and what ever else count on spending the better part of 3500 or $4000. It's not cheap but it is sweet...
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?cPath=13_387
http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=5SpeedConversionKit&cPath=389
The kit is $1647, but with the core trans, close gears, mid mount, shifter, a super diff or quaife, assembly and what ever else count on spending the better part of 3500 or $4000. It's not cheap but it is sweet...
You can also go with a Subaru 5 speed, but it will probably cost you more than the Gene Berg 5 speed. Unfortunately, there is no cheap, easy solution here.
If you can weld and fabricate in a few critical areas the conversion to some of the Porsche 5-speeds doesn't look too difficult but I don't think those ratios would help in your search for a higher freeway cruising gear. The conversion: http://www.aircooled.net/vw-transmission-porsche-5-speed-conversion/
The stock VW 4th gear is already an overdrive. If you go to slow the engine even more you'd probably need to be continually shifting in or out of the new high gear to try to keep the engine cool. It could easily cost more than the small additional comfort is worth much less the high cost of making the conversion.
These cars aren't freeway cruisers.
The stock VW 4th gear is already an overdrive. If you go to slow the engine even more you'd probably need to be continually shifting in or out of the new high gear to try to keep the engine cool. It could easily cost more than the small additional comfort is worth much less the high cost of making the conversion.
These cars aren't freeway cruisers.
When changing the top gearing you have to consider what range of speeds you will be cruising at. The VW type 1 motor needs to run above about 2800 rpm to cool properly; any slower will cause overheating. The problem with using a Porsche 5 speed transaxle is you may have to "adjust" the gearing for it to be usable in front of a type 1 motor, and that gets expensive very quickly. With the Berg 5 speed conversion the already overdrive 4th becomes 5th and you have the opportunity to create a custom, close ratio box with a freeway gear.
Using this gear calculator http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ - with a 205/60-15 tire, 3.44 r&p and .89 top gear, 2800 rpm doesn't happen until 67mph (3500rpm clocks in at 83mph). 2800 is the bare minimum you can run continually at; in hotter weather you may have to bump it up a little to avoid heat issues. A 3.88/.82 combo comes in at 64-80 mph. And if the motor will stay cool enough, you can run higher than 3500; I have driven a car at 4000-4200 rpm on the highway in cooler weather for a couple of hours at a time.
As the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
Using this gear calculator http://www.scirocco.org/gears/ - with a 205/60-15 tire, 3.44 r&p and .89 top gear, 2800 rpm doesn't happen until 67mph (3500rpm clocks in at 83mph). 2800 is the bare minimum you can run continually at; in hotter weather you may have to bump it up a little to avoid heat issues. A 3.88/.82 combo comes in at 64-80 mph. And if the motor will stay cool enough, you can run higher than 3500; I have driven a car at 4000-4200 rpm on the highway in cooler weather for a couple of hours at a time.
As the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for.
Allen, I've cruised my 2275 at 4000 rpm in cool weather and the fuel injection behaves itself and the oil temperature and CHT stay in the normal range. When I drive at 4000 rpm on a hot day my fuel injection gets cranky, my oil temps go up slightly and my CHT stays the same.
When I pop the engine hood, which lowers the temperature in the engine compartment, the fuel injection behaves itself and the car runs fine. Having said that, I'd be much happier cruising along at 3000 rpm.
When I pop the engine hood, which lowers the temperature in the engine compartment, the fuel injection behaves itself and the car runs fine. Having said that, I'd be much happier cruising along at 3000 rpm.
Ron- Are you sure it lowers the temp in the engine compartment, or could you have an air starvation problem? The aquarium tube and water glass test at speed (with the engine lid closed and then open) could tell you something...
Allen, my engine compartment may be starving for air. I do plan on trying the aquarium tube and water glass test in the near future.
which subaru 5 speed is suitable for a type I engine?
what kind of modifications are needed to fit?
With a Porsche 901 5 speed, and a 2332 c.c. engine, I cruise along at 3,000 rpm's doing around 115-120 kph. That's about 70 mph - at least, that is what my speedometer reads.
These cars certainly can be 'highway cruisers', and quite enjoyable at that.
I'd kill for a 5 speed. Okay, maybe I wouldn't kill, but I'd do some serious maiming.
We've done a few Porsche 915 swaps and it is easy and much stronger then a berg five speed. We have also done a bell housing mod and front mount for Mat one of the club members....
Come on, Ron, you know you'd kill.
Originally Posted by coolryde:
We've done a few Porsche 915 swaps and it is easy and much stronger then a berg five speed. We have also done a bell housing mod and front mount for Mat one of the club members....
Kevin- Does it have to be regeared for a big type 1 motor (I'm assuming anyone with the funds and/or expertise to do this/have this mod done would have a fairly healthy larger than 2 liter motor)? How involved is the install? Custom or which stock axles? Will it fit between the horns in a pan based car? Cost?
TJ,
I have the .82/3.88 gearing in my widebody with a mostly stock 1600 DP.
50 MPH/2500 RPMS
60 MPH/3000 RPMS
70 MPH/3500 RPMS
I verified these speed with a handhelp GPS and I'm using a somewhat accurate VDO
tach. The only real problem I have is not liking the huge spread between 3rd and 4th.
You really have to spin the engine tight going in to 4th or its dead. I'm sure the guys
with bigger engines have less of a problem though. I seem to run 200/205 degrees
no matter what.
David
Great real world info, Dave! What size tires are you running? And this is the problem with trying to go with the stock 3rd (1.31) -bus 4th (.82) spacing; with a big motor I can imagine it not being so bad, but with a 1600... Al
Hey Al,
I'm running a 225/45/17 on an 8" rim. The tire charts show that as a 25" tire but you really have to go with the radius X2. So the diameter the trans would see is closer to 24.5.
The engine kind of finds a sweet spot at 3500 but it feels like I'll be pulling parts from my backside running it that way! I'm used to V8's with deep overdrives turning 2500 at 80MPH!
David
Kevin- Does it have to be regeared for a big type 1 motor (I'm assuming anyone with the funds and/or expertise to do this/have this mod done would have a fairly healthy larger than 2 liter motor)? How involved is the install? Custom or which stock axles? Will it fit between the horns in a pan based car? Cost?
It does not have to be regeared, in fact the one that I have in my speedster allows me to cruise down the freeway at 70 mph and only be turning about 2800 rpms in 5th.
The install of a 901 box is easy with out mods to the frame horns, a 915 box does need mods to frame horns on earlier pans to allow the cv's to clear. Later IRS pans fit nicely.
Stock axles, stock cv's for a 901, and stock axles with type 2 cv's for a 915 trans.
Yes it both fit between the frame horns.
Cost...... trans, mods, axles, cv's, shifter and shift rod, coupler...... Total it is like a $2500-3000 dollar gig depending on what kind of deal you get.
Originally Posted by Jim Kelly:
Come on, Ron, you know you'd kill.
Maybe, if I Knew I could get away with it....
One of my Type 4 purchasers from many years ago just traded in his 2563cc Type 4 and Berg 5 tranny toward my JR28T Suby package to include my Suby tranny. I have no use for the Berg 5 and it is available.For details emil jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com
Swing or IRS?
Its IRS...
Do it Stan! You know you want to...
Sold pending my return from vacation and funds transfer :-)