I just joined and this is my first post…
I am interested in purchasing a 550 Spyder replica. I prefer silver blue, tube frame, disk brakes, IRS and an air-cooled engine 1915 or larger. Willing to consider any and all available. I don’t mind cars requiring a little work but I prefer a runner (no basket cases).
Also interested in current sources for new or used 550 Spyders.
Thanks,
Martin
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All Spyders are tube chassis, with the exception of the Perry 550, which I wouldn't even call a replica 550, as it is rear engined on a beetle chassis.
That said, there have only been a couple of IRS Spyders ever built, so if that is a must, get in touch with Greg at Vintage Motorcars. Tell him what you want and then get in line.
Or you can call Carey Hines at Special Edition/Beck. Of course he has quite a line as well.
@Lane Anderson posted:Or you can call Carey Hines at Special Edition/Beck. Of course he has quite a line as well.
Has Carey built any IRS Spyders? I thought most of his were torsion bar swingaxle, with a couple of DeDion cars years ago.
@mhconley posted:I just joined and this is my first post…
I am interested in purchasing a 550 Spyder replica. I prefer silver blue, tube frame, disk brakes, IRS and an air-cooled engine 1915 or larger. Willing to consider any and all available. I don’t mind cars requiring a little work but I prefer a runner (no basket cases).
Also interested in current sources for new or used 550 Spyders.
Thanks,
Martin
Next thread down in this section is a build thread with a lot of detail. That car is for sale.
My preferences were more a wish list...
That's a very nice car for sale but way more than I want to spend. If I had $75k for a car I'd be buying a CPO 991. I'm looking to keep it under $50k and preferably under $40k.
So based upon my research I guess I'm in the market for a preowned spyder. Or has the market passed me by?
Martin
Greg Leach worked on developing IRS for his Spyder in early 2000s but gave up. Carey had DeDion in a few of his cars with water cooled VW engines.
I personally think neither Greg or Carey would agree to develop IRS in a Spyder for any amount. Spyders are a part of their business but it’s not the money maker. Greg makes his money off of speedsters and Coupes. Carey makes his money off of speedsters and Super Coupes. I’ve had 3 spyders with rear swing axle and I’ve never had a big complaint. The car is just so light. If I was going to add anything to my Spyder it would be ring and pinion front steering. The steering is the weak link in the Spyder. I think the worm gear steering is the weak link in any replica.
991s are sweet, i have a 17 991.2 that is poop ur pants fast with the Cobb upgrade.
@mhconley posted:My preferences were more a wish list...
That's a very nice car for sale but way more than I want to spend. If I had $75k for a car I'd be buying a CPO 991. I'm looking to keep it under $50k and preferably under $40k.
So based upon my research I guess I'm in the market for a preowned spyder. Or has the market passed me by?
Martin
You might be able to get a new one under $50k - maybe. Not a chance under $40k. Used cars don't seem to be much less. Recent used Spyders on BaT have been in the $40s and $50s.
Greg can and does do IRS rears in Spyders. Front R & P steering is common too but NOT front coil over shock, "A" arms. That is what I wanted in my Spyder and have waited for more than a year for this to be developed but it ain't happening for me. I have given up on that after three capable fabricating shops have thrown in the towel on doing this for Greg. It will take an entire frame re-design to get it done. Maybe even extending the wheel base a little to get it. The problems are centering around the brake and clutch pedal assembly mostly. Sooner or later Greg will have to do something because front axle assy's are now getting a little harder to get and so are floorpans and parts associated with both of them. There's no question that it's doable but it will take a lot more that one would expect and not with current production schedules being amped-up so much..................Bruce
This looks interesting.
That Suby Vintage is really nice.
Greg's rear IRS looks the same as the original IRS I saw back in 1995 or so when it was ACI, which Greg got the molds/jigs for and started Vintage Spyders.
I don't know how many IRS rears have been done but I think not that many in 25 years. I've only seen maybe one handful in pictures, but I'd guess less than 1 a year.
As far as the rack and pinion steering, I'll let you know. I have all the parts to convert mine, waiting for the rain to rinse the roads clean of salt. Then the Spyder can take the prime "work" spot in the garage.
@aircooled I wasn't aware that rack and pinion steering was commonplace in Spyders. Is it really?
@550 Phil The steering box isn't the best, but properly adjusted it isn't bad. But hey, they RACE Formula Vee with them, they're required.
The front suspension issues are all packaging: brake/clutch masters, foot room, gas tank room, and get a good unequal-length A-arm in there with good Ackerman, no bump steer, and yeah some room for the steering column and rack too. It's a lot to package in a small space. I hope it can be done without lengthening the wheelbase.
@550 Phil posted:Greg Leach worked on developing IRS for his Spyder in early 2000s but gave up. Carey had DeDion in a few of his cars with water cooled VW engines.
I personally think neither Greg or Carey would agree to develop IRS in a Spyder for any amount. Spyders are a part of their business but it’s not the money maker. Greg makes his money off of speedsters and Coupes. Carey makes his money off of speedsters and Super Coupes. I’ve had 3 spyders with rear swing axle and I’ve never had a big complaint. The car is just so light. If I was going to add anything to my Spyder it would be ring and pinion front steering. The steering is the weak link in the Spyder. I think the worm gear steering is the weak link in any replica.
Yeah - I guess the weight is down low. I owned a lowered 56 bug once that handled quite well.
@barncobob posted:991s are sweet, i have a 17 991.2 that is poop ur pants fast with the Cobb upgrade.
The only 911 I've ever driven was a 1978 SC Targa and I thought it was insanely quick.
@Lane Anderson posted:You might be able to get a new one under $50k - maybe. Not a chance under $40k. Used cars don't seem to be much less. Recent used Spyders on BaT have been in the $40s and $50s.
Porsche people on BaT are nuts...
@Lane Anderson posted:This looks interesting.
I'll be watching that one...
@edsnova posted:That Suby Vintage is really nice.
Except they just don't sound right. I love the sound of a souped up VW.
Martin
Martin, that 1978 911SC Targa is SLOW compared to my Spyder, which is a Vintage at 1500 pounds and 180 hp (same power as the SC).
That 911 needs an 800 pound diet. That's like two Spyders, one with 180hp and the other with 120.
50% more weight= 50% less power
Danny........Yeah, your right about my unfounded comment about R & P steering being commonplace . It isn't, it's probably because I'm excited that Greg is pretty confident that I will have it in my Spyder, so it had been sloughed off, in my mind, as another... "obstacle removed" thus allowing myself to be......a little cavalier in my comments!!
On your other comments you forgot to mention that if it's Subaru equipped, a radiator is required as well. It almost looks like a real close review of gas tank configuration and shape should be done. Perhaps no useable trunk at all ! How about determining a closer clearance between the tank and the steering column?.
It seems as though there is more spatial review to be done up front before deciding to totally redesign everything. I don't work there and maybe I'm totally talking with my head unscrewed, but these are my thoughts and I enjoy reading others........Bruce
@aircooled, have you heard any updates on your car? Did you ever find out from Greg what rack he uses? I’m supposedly the next car in the build queue behind yours.
I stand corrected about IRS in a Spyder. I guess he worked it out. What is cost of the upgrade? It’s not listed as an option on his site. He certainly never mentioned it to me in 2017 when I ordered my Spyder. I’m pretty happy with the handling of my Spyder, other than the sloppy steering, so IRS would have to be a pretty cheap option for me to order it. But thank you for correcting me. I think I’ve ordered my last Spyder so I’ll live with swing axle. But never say never.
A little concerning when they don’t even show engine compartment. 1915cc engine?
We (Beck) did a few IRS cars over the years, in various forms (trailing arm, DeDion, and a few others) but I won't do it again. My opinion remains that it needs to be swingaxle and a properly set up swingaxle Spyder will out handle most IRS modifications out there. That's all that I'll say about that as it generally turns in to a Ford v. Chevy type argument.
As for your budget, you won't find a quality new build under $50K. You'll be closer to $60k on a new Beck and I believe Vintage is $60k on a roller, so more like $75k turn key these days. There isn't another Spyder manufacturer I'd consider. Used cars you can still find them near $50k for a nice example and close to $40k for a car that needs TLC. Some pop up cheaper on occasion but they're being scooped up by flippers that know they can make a quick buck cleaning them up or on BAT. You have to be quick on the draw if one pops up at the "old" prices.
I'd be interested to see the current developments in rack and pinion for old VW retrofits. The early VW beam based conversions for rack and pinion created a TON of bump steer and incorrect Ackerman, but I was told that someone made some offset brackets that help mimic the different offset swings of the VW Pitman arm, which is required to keep your suspension geometry proper with VW spindles and geometry. I just haven't seen anyone who has used them and has enough knowledge to report real world findings.
@550 Phil posted:I stand corrected about IRS in a Spyder. I guess he worked it out. What is cost of the upgrade? It’s not listed as an option on his site. He certainly never mentioned it to me in 2017 when I ordered my Spyder. I’m pretty happy with the handling of my Spyder, other than the sloppy steering, so IRS would have to be a pretty cheap option for me to order it. But thank you for correcting me. I think I’ve ordered my last Spyder so I’ll live with swing axle. But never say never.
IRS price was/is unknown. Greg told me he would let me know when he finished putting @aircooled Bruce’s car together. Bruce, have you heard anything? Same with rack and pinion.
I’m just looking for a fun car to enjoy as I approach retirement. 
I was hoping to get into this fairly cheaply. Unfortunately, the market that got us top dollar for my late father’s home also has desirable cars priced nearly out of my range.
I’ve loved the looks of 550 Spyders and 718 RSK Spyders for years and have always wanted one. 356 Speedsters are pretty too but don’t do it for me like the Spyders.
I looked at CPO 911’s but they’re just out of reach. Perhaps a CPO 981 Boxster is a more attainable goal. I’m keeping all options open but hope to be driving something new by summer. 
Thanks for all the input.
Martin
@550 Phil posted:A little concerning when they don’t even show engine compartment. 1915cc engine?
@Lane Anderson posted:You might be able to get a new one under $50k - maybe. Not a chance under $40k. Used cars don't seem to be much less. Recent used Spyders on BaT have been in the $40s and $50s.
My friend Rick looked for 2 years for an ~$40k Spyder. Ended up closer to $50k on both his 550 and RSK.
I doubt you’ll find one in the price range that doesn’t require a lot of work. It’s like the old adage: “There’s no such thing as a $10K Porsche.” If your initial investment is <$10K, expect a lot of maintenance and repair.
@mhconley posted:Unfortunately, the market that got us top dollar for my late father’s home also has desirable cars priced nearly out of my range.
No business cycle lasts forever, but it might outlast your willingness to wait it out.
If you sold a large asset you didn't need (your Dad's home) in an inflated market, good for you! Your cost basis was $0, so everything you got was gravy.
If you're trying to find an underpriced replica in a superheated world, you'll be frustrated. A very plain 45 year old Intermeccanica Speedster just sold for almost $40K on BaT. Sanity has officially left the market, and you're looking in the Spring when prices are highest.
If something else will scratch this itch, I'd recommend buying that other thing. MX5s are great cars and offer a ton of value. C8 Corvettes are the deal of this or any other lifetime.
Anything Porsche related (even if it's not "real") has rounded the bend into the surreal.
Something I'm trying to wrap my head around and simply cannot so let me ask a dumb question... It seems to me a VW engine & tranmission spun around 180° would provide 4 reverse gears and 1 forward. How does it work? 
Martin
@Stan Galat posted:Anything Porsche related (even if it's not "real") has rounded the bend into the surreal.
I used to think so too, but Rick seems to have a knack for it. He bought 2 real Porsches last year for <$25K. A retrofittted 914-6 and a 912.
But he devotes A LOT of time to the search.
He also bought a pretty nice CMC wide body for $17.5.
@LI-Rick posted:All Spyders are tube chassis, with the exception of the Perry 550, which I wouldn't even call a replica 550, as it is rear engined on a beetle chassis.
That said, there have only been a couple of IRS Spyders ever built, so if that is a must, get in touch with Greg at Vintage Motorcars. Tell him what you want and then get in line.
Vintage has "over 170 Speedsters on order" and are not "taking any orders on the Spyder until possibly 2024."
Martin
@mhconley posted:Vintage has "over 170 Speedsters on order" and are not "taking any orders on the Spyder until possibly 2024."
Martin
And I know Special Edition/Beck has a waiting list on all of their cars that is at least 3 years long. I'd say your options are limited to used cars at this point in time. Best of luck with the search as I know you'd really enjoy a Spyder.
@mhconley posted:Something I'm trying to wrap my head around and simply cannot so let me ask a dumb question... It seems to me a VW engine & tranmission spun around 180° would provide 4 reverse gears and 1 forward. How does it work?
Martin
You move the ring gear to the other side of the pinion head and it outputs the opposite direction. The early VW and Porsche boxes were designed with this in mind, and you can even do it in the slightly later 915 series Porsche box with a minor amount of machine work for ring gear clearance, and a little machine work to the 2nd gear slider so it doesn't contact the ring gear bolts.
Cold start today after four months sitting.
Hemmings Motor News shows a number of Spyders being offered by Beverly Hills Motor Cars. Does anyone know anything about them? Google results do not shed much light on them...
Martin
@mhconley posted:Hemmings Motor News shows a number of Spyders being offered by Beverly Hills Motor Cars. Does anyone know anything about them? Google results do not shed much light on them...
Martin
Yes, they likely have zero cars. They never take them down and use the years-old photos to generate phone calls to try and find a car for you or build one for you.
@edsnova posted:Cold start today after four months sitting.
Beautiful car. Love your build thread.
This photo concerns me:
My fat ass wants to know - Are all Spyder seats this narrow?
Martin
No. Most are a little wider, and/or not as deeply bolstered.
Re: Beverly Hills Motors: I very much doubt anyone there has ever built anything, let alone a car. That ain't their vibe at all.
@mhconley posted:My fat ass wants to know - Are all Spyder seats this narrow?
Martin,
I'm going to rewind here. Have you ever sat in a Spyder?
Not everybody fits. I changed my avatar to the current "bear on a tricycle" after attempting it for the first time.
Ed's passenger's seat is smaller than his driver's seat, and is the narrowest I've ever seen. Even though I am not particularly width enhanced in the derriere I was unable to ride in his car as a passenger at last year's Carlisle. The driver's seat was fine. I think he narrowed the passenger's seat so that the period-correct jack could fit next to it.
