'58 steering column and shaft restoration/install

I have purchased a steering column form a 1958 vw beetle. I did so in order to install an original looking hub and turn signal indicator. I also did so without doing much research.

Has anyone installed an older steering shaft/column on their speedster that can pass on any information? Has anyone ever restored one of these? The horn contact switch is interesting and very new to me. Im wondering if it can be used in the speedster as it was intended in the vw.

My initial question is will i have to lengthen the shaft several inches in order to keep the steering wheel in the same position? I plan on having Lanes friend Mike Lempert build a flat spoke Derrington style wheel for installation.

Paul

Here are some links to discussions of horn grounding.

http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqhorn.htm

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/wired_12_00/wired_12_00.htm

Your '58 column used an overly complicated system for the horn involving a carbon brush rubbing on the shaft.

I used a column like yours but used the '62 - '69 horn system.

Where you have that protrusion on the side of the tube I soldered on a copper cap with a tab riveted to it for a push on connector for the ground wire.

Your hub looks very nice.

I don't know if you need to lengthen the shaft. I wanted the wheel to be further from the eyebrow so I lengthened the shaft and tube. You can look in my photos to see how I lengthened the shaft.

I used a '66 - '67 bus turn signal switch with dimmer. The bus tube is smaller diameter and the switch is bigger. I used the right side of the VW switch housing and the left side of the bus housing. I used a 1 1/2" sanding drum to open up the bus housing to fit the VW tube.

i am running an OEM 1956 steering wheel, steering shaft / sleave, horn brush (new), and turn signal assembly.

it's 3 wires so it doesn't get easier to wire than that. it's non-canceling, so you have to keep an eye on it unless you want to be 'that guy' driving around with the turn signal on.

i documented the installation on my site.

My turn signals are non-cancelling too and all too often I was driving with a signal on. I did have a flashing indicator above the speedo but the steering wheel rim was blocking it from view. Solution was to mount an idiot light on the dash in a position that could not be missed. My horn just crapped out on the negative side so this thread is very timely.

I have done this as well... a few times. The last time I took a bunch of photos on how we sleeved the column and turned it down so it was spaced out enough for the wheel. I also took several shots of how we kept the original 356 horn isolation sleeve and made it work. We used a similar turn signal mechanism, but used the 9 wire version which has the dimmer switch on the turn signal stalk. I'll send some photos your way Paul.

Carey,
I am doing what Paul is doing on my build as well - mind sending a copy of your pic's my way as well?
Thanks,
Dale
dlschu42 at comcast.net

Paul,
I love your hub as well - would you mind letting me know where you found it? Maybe we can talk about it if you come my way this Saturday. Rust removal 101 - believe me - I have done enough

"i documented the installation on my site. "

You have a site documenting the build for your BEAUTIFUL car?

PLEASE post a link or email me the link, would you? I'd love to check it out, seriously ! ! !

Thanks,

TC

Sent to all. Hope it helps.
Carey

Carey,

I received the email. Thank you. Its going to take more than a quick read over lunch to make sense of it all! Special Edition is really doing some good work with regard to accuracy in their builds. I like it.

Dale,

Why dont we try to get together Sunday. We could talk through a couple things. Its going to be a baumy 47 degrees and sunny. Ill drive the speedster. Let Greg know, its probably time for him to quit showing off that first place trophy anyway.

Michael,

great links, thank you. beautiful detailing on your car... you spent a lot of time thinking through the details. you should have been an architect.

10-4 - I will give Greg a call
Bring your rusty stuff if you want it cleaned up - we can do it in my garage unless you want to just try David's way.
I would still like to see your hub etc. to see what you are doing -and exhange some ideas.

TC

the build URL is my name

<----

Paul, I am an architect.

--> temporary thread diversion -->

Mike - How's the Speedster coming? You gonna have it ready for Carlisle?

<-- you may now return to your regularly scheduled thread <--

Paul-As an addendum to this thread, I was wondering if you had researched (or care) whether this older steering column is non-collapsible; VW first introduced a collapsible column in 1968. Don't know if this could be an issue for you or your thoracic surgeon. Bit of humor there!?

Lane, I plan on it. It seems like there is not much to do. It also seems like I am not making much progress these days. I am distracted by work and the garage is cold. It was 4 below outside this morning.

I would hate to have Wolfgang make it there with his car and not me.

If you can, best to weld a late model crush cage onto the shaft ....

Paul,

Just call my cell if you need anything clarified on the column.
Your switches/bezels/knobs went out today via 2-day priority, just FYI.

Yes and yes!! Both the shaft and the tube will need to be longer.

I made mine like a 58. and had never seen one Haa! Thats a HOOT!

I found a old tv antenna pipe at a junk yard that was perfect. just cut it to lenth, and i used the super beetle universal colum link at the lower end Unmonified. You will need 2 inner shafts to make a nice longer one

When i put the 67 bus turn signal switch on mine. (Built in dimmer switch)..

I knew it had no place for a contact ring. when adding that switch

If he upgrades the turn switch.. I think he will be glad he has that.

It may be more complecated but it solves a problem, and give you room for a dimmer switch on the colum.

I like mine.

Went down and hung out with wolfgang and Dale S. last Sunday. Dale helped me clean the rust off of my column parts while Wolfgang went for a drive in my speedster (the thing hasnt run the same since). I have started painting the parts.. not sure i am doing it correctly. figured id look for advice here. So, the following is my process:

1st coat primer
wet sand with 1000 grit
2nd coat primer
wet sand with 1000 grit
1st coat of color
wet sand with 1000 grit
2nd coat color
wet sand with 1000 grit

there is where i am as of today. I need to apply a third and hopefully final coat of 'color' because metal came through in some thin spots.

question is how to best finish the job. Do i sand the final coat of color with 1000 grit then 2000 grit and then apply a coat of clear, sand with 1000, second coat of clear (heavily applied), sand with 2000?

Man, it made a real bad noise when I pushed the shifter down trying to find 5th gear! Kind of a grrrunch-gerrrrr-bang. 1915cc is making me wonder if I'll be happy for long with 1641cc. Thxs for letting me drive - pumped me up to get moving on mine.

I built my own steering column using a 57 x 50 tube, old donor Beetle steering shaft, a new 6 wire 67 bus switch assembly from Cip1, 2ea. #6205 bearings, U-joints and a bit of splined shaft from Borgeson.

It is necessary to machine one of the u-joints and TIG to the steering shaft, plus a bit of lathe work.

Looks period correct, and works great with the wheel centered with the driver.
email me if you would like the drawing

I just test wired up the old (new?) switch from the '58. hooked the power up to the relay, right front indicator to the 'right side' indicator and the left front indicator wire to the 'left side'. evrything works, including brake lights. So, new question. Am i going to screw anything up but ot hooking up the remaining 3 wires? Its the one that is supposed to go to the brake switch I am wondering about.

If all this works I can move on to figuring out how to get high beam capability again. the fun never stops.

The '58 column i purchased included the original turn signal switch. I was hoping to wire it up and use it. The current switch is a 5 wire. It has a high beam switch on the stalk, I think it is late 60's. The switch out of the '58 is a 6 wire. On the '58 there is a single wire for each turn signal, a total of 4. left front, right front, left rear, right rear. that leaves two wires, one to the relay (power) and one that connecs to the brake light switch???? Strange.

the switch installed only has one wire for left indicators and one for right indicators, both front and back.

In order to use the switch from the '58 do i need to purchase a 12v relay for that year vw? Can I wire this up using my current relay? how?

Any help here?:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_58_USA.jpg
main page: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php

I appreciate that, actually had the same diagram up this morning prior to loosening lug nuts and jacking the car up.

One more generally related thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=346998

I'm redoing the turn signal circuit on my '64 panel type 2- I can answer the brake switch question.

The idea is that older beetles and buses did not have separate brake and turn signal bulbs- only one dual filament bulb in the holder. So- if you don't use the wire from the brake switch, the brake lights don't work right. What VW was after was a solid light on the non-flashing side when the brakes were applied, and both on when no turn-signal was on.

If you've got a separate brake light bulb (and most replicas do), then you can ignore the 4th (and 5th, and 6th, and 7th) wire.

Thanks Stan. Ill run it with the 3 wires hooked up.

some pics of the install. I need extra length welded to the steering column to clear the front bulkhead. I also need to get the steering collar machined to accept the larger diameter column. I trued to use the orginal collar and am not happy with the look.

Paul,
Not that my opinion matters but I gotta say how glad I am to see you ended up keeping that car. I always liked the story from the begining - going out west and doing a shakedown on PCH, the color combo (my personal favorite), and now you doing what so few rep-speedster owners do, making it look right from the inside out. That car is by far one of my favorites and now it'll be even better. I know it was a rough journey to this point but as you already know, thats part of the "madness" as they say.
I look forward to seeing your car again at Carlisle.

Paul,
Nice work! I like the early turn signal switch. The steering wheel looks a little far from the dash, but I'm sure you probably had a reason for that or is it an optical illusion?

I was glad to see how far the wheel is from the dash because mine is too. Now I don't feel like mine is so odd.

I spent a lot of time looking at pictures of original Speedsters to see how far away their wheels were from the dash. It was hard to tell.

With your hands comfortably on the steering wheel, you should be able to reach and actuate the headlights and wipers without taking your hands off of the wheel.

At least that's how an original is spaced.......

Paul, emailed you re the column.

Nice work & thanks for posting. I'm learning a lot just watching.

It is an illusion in the picture, the wheel is actually drooped down, no bracket holding it up. You can see the top 1/2 of the alluminum collar still mounted on the underside of the dash. The '58 column is too large to re-use it. I threw something together with the original column mount, but am not happy with the look. I am dropping off the aluminum piece tomorrow hoping they can machine it to receive the larger diameter column.

Ill take a couple pics tonight of the actual mounting position before i pull everything out.

Paul

silly question. who is the manufacturer of your car? I see the low tunnel but appears to have high inner longitudials. Intermeccanica?

Paul,

Those aluminum things are are really cheap and come various sizes.

You can get 1" of column adjustment depending on where you secure the column shaft clamp/ bolt on the flat portion of the steeing box shaft.

Michael- Got a link to some of those cheap, available, AL clamps in various sizes? I've got a project begging for them.