1957 Speedster replica from Vintage MS on BAT High Watermark?

That's very high for a Vintage, but that's also quite an engine in it.  Not sure it justifies the price, but if the market wants to go there, the seller will be a very happy man.

People are getting certifiable....maybe it's the diamond interior? 

Nice looking car and nice motor but come on ....usually you only see this kind of overpay at the auctions.

$52,356 at 3:00pm CST. Wow, I'm thinkin' that might be a record for a Vintage. I'll take $45,000 for mine, and no diamond tuck to look at.

Regarding the wrong tail lights: This replica is listed as a 1957.  Porsche changed from bee hives to teardrops in mid-year 57, so both types are correct.  

https://www.speedsterowners.co...5#624508347993964445

I was under the impression that all 57's had teardrops, thanks for the correction.  i like the bee hives, but thought they were exclusive to the 55/56 cars

Hello all,

We built this car last year , this car has more then just "The Engine" to build this car again today you would be in the mid $60k + . 

Engine $15k

Gearbox $5k

wheels $5k 

so we are $25k in the engine trans and wheels alone...things start to add up when you do the build correct with quality parts, you cant compare this car to a normal Vintage Speedster built with 4 lug wheels and a 1600cc engine... just saying. 

Greg

www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com 

I was just about to say....

That Speedster certainly has all the bells and whistles and serious eye appeal too. It will probably go north of the current high bid, a very nice Vintage Motorcar ride for sure ~

Jim Kelly posted:

Regarding the wrong tail lights: This replica is listed as a 1957.  Porsche changed from bee hives to teardrops in mid-year 57, so both types are correct.  

I was under the impression that the change from beehives to teardrops was mid '56?

@VSpyder wrote-"things start to add up when you do the build correct with quality parts, you cant compare this car to a normal Vintage Speedster built with 4 lug wheels and a 1600cc engine..."

Yeah, you start customizing things and it adds up really quickly. That is a very nice car you've built, Greg!

And I agree with what Lane said below- sales like this never hurt resale values!

Me too, Al.  Regardless of the quirks, this is a nice looking car with one hell of a drive-train, so YAY! for raising our resale values! 

Mid-March 1957 for tail light changeovers, per my Porsche restoration book by Dr. Alan Johnson IIRC.  I even had the chassis numbers for last bee hive vs. first teardrops.  This seems to be a date that generates lots of discussion, so there may be sources that disagree.  I'll try to dig out my source book.

ALB posted:

Jim Kelly posted:

Regarding the wrong tail lights: This replica is listed as a 1957.  Porsche changed from bee hives to teardrops in mid-year 57, so both types are correct.  

I was under the impression that the change from beehives to teardrops was mid '56?

 

1957.

They also changed from shine up to shine down plate/reverse lights somewhere mid-1957. Not sure if it's possible to have an OG Speedster with beehives and a shine down, or teardrops and a shine up, but I'd guess the answer is probably.

Re when the taillight change took place- not that we, as plastic clown car owners really give a sh*t one way or the other!

I have read, @Stan Galat, that the licence plate light change didn't happen at exactly the same time so there are cars with the wrong taillight/licence light combination as well.

Dr. B. Johnson, The 356 Porsche, A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity, Oct. 1997, p. 72:

"At coupe 100001, cabriolet 61701 and Speedster 83201 (March 1957), the teardrop unit appeared, combining tail light, turn signal and brake light.  This configuration continued throughout the remainder of the production.  The only variation was the difference in all red U.S., red-amber European and amber-red Italian lenses."

Johnson has a few other items of reference to those changes in his book, with corresponding dates, when the T 2 body changes came into existence in mid-year 1957, including lower positioned striker plates on the doors, modified rear cowling and front vent windows on the Cabs, along with chrome-plated tubular overrider bars on the bumpers (p. 4).

Vintage Motorcars is not the same as Vintage Speedsters and add that kickass Fat Performance... I can see it.

VSpyder posted:

Hello all,

We built this car last year , this car has more then just "The Engine" to build this car again today you would be in the mid $60k + . 

Engine $15k

Gearbox $5k

wheels $5k 

so we are $25k in the engine trans and wheels alone...things start to add up when you do the build correct with quality parts, you cant compare this car to a normal Vintage Speedster built with 4 lug wheels and a 1600cc engine... just saying. 

 

Greg

www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com 

 

Greg, the more I look at it, the more the price on this car is justified.  It's just beautiful.  All of the subtle things that set this car apart makes it a lust worthy object.  I showed my wife the pictures, and while she is usually not impressed with other cars (she only likes her CMC Widebody)  she told me that if we got another one, this would be it.  mmmm tempting.

BTW with 8 hours left one the clock $56,356!  worth every penny!

R3d

With the economy the way it is and the way it looks like it is going, I am glad to see it bring this kind of price.  Many  other auctions (and sales) are not reaching reserve.
I am holding off on selling my IM until things smooth back out. A good excuse to keep it .  :-)

VSpyder posted:

Hello all,

We built this car last year , this car has more then just "The Engine" to build this car again today you would be in the mid $60k + . 

Engine $15k

Gearbox $5k

wheels $5k 

so we are $25k in the engine trans and wheels alone...things start to add up when you do the build correct with quality parts, you cant compare this car to a normal Vintage Speedster built with 4 lug wheels and a 1600cc engine... just saying. 

 

Greg

www.vintagemotorcarsinc.com 

 

Oh...forgot to ask- what would make the gearbox work $5k- all aftermarket gears?

Agreed Al. It's not a Berg5. I can't see the trans being more than $2500. But I could be wrong.

DannyP posted:

Agreed Al. It's not a Berg5. I can't see the trans being more than $2500. But I could be wrong.

"I could do a Berg5 for that" was my first reaction too, Danny, but if you used a new hd case ($300?), aftermarket mainshaft ($1100+- it is type 4 powered, so a longer 1st would be nice), 3rd and 4th gears (no, the 'Sportsman' ratios won't work, so 800 instead of 600), either 3.88 or 3.44 r&p (350? 400?), super diff (250?) or Quaife (1200?), new syncros, bearings and misc. new parts (200-250), core charge (300? 400?) and shipping (300?) it adds up pretty fast. 

A far cry from a stock ($899) or Pro Street ($1195) build, but you know as well as I do- you get what you pay for.

Maybe it has a ZF in it?

LI-Rick posted:

Maybe it has a ZF in it?

ZF's are pretty hard to find, but it's possible, although I think the ad would mention that tidbit if it was so equipped.

Agreed. If it DIDN'T have an open diff, that would assuredly be stated.

If you have Rancho start with a brand new gusseted Rhino case, add all Weddle gearing in non-stock ratios with the appropriate welding, hardened Weddle shift forks, heavy duty aluminum side covers, IRS 930 or Vanagon axle stubs, 3.88 R&P, and a Quaiffe or Peloquin Torsen differential you can get to $5,500 easy. It'll be bullet proof, too (that's the theory anyway...)

I got to see this car when I was at Vintage visiting Greg last spring.  The pictures don't do it justice.  It's a total kid-in-a-candy-shop build.

@VSpyder what bumper trim did you use?  Is it the GT trim like SMC offers?  Did you weld the ends?  Is it the same trim on the rockers, under the doors?

Thanks!

James

JMM (Michael)'s post X2.  I didn't order the Rancho monster in JMM's post, but I did get the new case & taller gears.  In my car about 2 years, moved the needle way up on the fun stuff o meter.

$81k, those 2 bidders must belong to the Jay Leno club.

$81,000 for a Vintage Speedster???

What's this virus doing to people?

https://bringatrailer.com/list...6-speedster-replica/

JMM (Michael) posted:

If you have Rancho start with a brand new gusseted Rhino case, add all Weddle gearing in non-stock ratios with the appropriate welding, hardened Weddle shift forks, heavy duty aluminum side covers, IRS 930 or Vanagon axle stubs, 3.88 R&P, and a Quaiffe or Peloquin Torsen differential you can get to $5,500 easy. It'll be bullet proof, too (that's the theory anyway...)

I got to see this car when I was at Vintage visiting Greg last spring.  The pictures don't do it justice.  It's a total kid-in-a-candy-shop build.

Yeah, that's about as bullet-proof as you can get, but a little overkill for a Speedster- the gussetted case isn't needed unless you're seriously drag racing and have the power AND suspension to pick the front wheels up off the ground. Type 1 axle stubs and cv's have gone 11's in street cars and survive, and there are trans builders who say that stock side covers (if in good shape) are all that are needed at our level as well.

$81,000 for that car- WOW! and it's a 4 speed...

There has been more auction volume on BaT, probably a result of cancelled in-person auctions nationwide. Usually they have upwards of 240 that are live at any moment, now they are pushing 300.

Three bidders were in this over $75k. Very strong showing for a nice example. 

Tech question: Would a Berg 5 even stand up to a 2400cc Type 4 by Roland Rascon? 

Yeah, sure. They're just as durable as a 4 speed, at least in 1-2, and maybe 3-4. I know 5th is a little weak. If the trans had the above-mentioned stuff plus a 5th, why not?

It would be fine, Ed.

81K, what a price. Congrats to the seller. MIght be time to call BaT.

I would be curious what my car would do in auction setting.

You might do well but I would have a reserve for sure.

Tom Boney posted:

81K, what a price. Congrats to the seller. MIght be time to call BaT.

I would be curious what my car would do in auction setting.

Tom,

IMHO, BaT is a great place to market your car.

DannyP posted:

Yeah, sure. They're just as durable as a 4 speed, at least in 1-2, and maybe 3-4. I know 5th is a little weak. If the trans had the above-mentioned stuff plus a 5th, why not?

Why do you say 5th is a little weak?

I thought it was, or may have read that. Because 5th is outside of the main bearing in the gear carrier?

DannyP posted:

I thought it was, or may have read that. Because 5th is outside of the main bearing in the gear carrier?

A lot (if not all) of oem 5 speeds are like that, Danny, including Porsche. It's not an issue. I don't think you'd want to hang 1st off of the shafts like that (with no support on the other side), but there aren't enough forces placed upon the 5th gears to be problematic.

A properly prepared Berg5 will be just as durable as a comparable type 1 4 speed. They have proven to hold up in numerous 12, 11, and even 10 second street cars as well as numerous drag race cars. There's a guy locally with a turboed oval window 'street' bug  (I really don't know how much he drives it on 'the street' these days, but it does have plates and all the equipment to make it street legal) equipped with a Berg5 and I believe he's run 9.80's in the quarter mile at the local track- and the trans shifts flawlessly (once they got the weight thing figured out).