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'83 IM Speedster Advice?

FM Former Member
I would like to request some advice/input from the group regarding a potential Speedster purchase. As I am a first-timer, I wonder if I might benefit from the group's collective wisdom. I guess I can appreciate the advantage of owning a new VS or JPS, but it seems these cars turn over fairly often. Is it because the owners buy before they know what they are getting into?

For what it is worth, and please excuse the insult to this board, I am also considering a Z-3, 911SC, supercharging a Miata, and a Cobra replica.

In the end, I think the Speedster is by far the most elegant, but I wonder if I should be concerned about the age of Dave's.

Thanks for the help.

Chris

THE CAR: (Reproduced with Dave's permission)

It's an IM that was purchased in 1982 as a rolling chasis (I think, finding the history on these cars is next to impossible). The car was completed in IL and owned by the same gentleman up until 2000 or
so.

Body is in great shape. There is one small spot of rust (about the diameter of a pen cap) in the floor board on the driver's side; however, it's very minor. The body is fiberglass so there's no rust on it... there one small spot in the back of the car where the fiberglass is cracked...

1600CC engine

The car runs fine; however, as for any car of it's age it does require some tweaking from time to time (e.g., carb adjustment, new plugs, etc). Mostly little stuff. Also, with an older restoration, there will be times when you'll need to investigate little annoyance... for example, on this car the driver's side blinker doesn't work... it's a wiring issue... also, the gas tank is not vented properly... so sometimes the fumes in the garage are a
little strong... both of this issues could be solved for a few buck;
however, it needs to be done.... now if you have a new Z3 or Miata you'll never have to address any of these issues....

At the end of the day, this car is not an everyday driver... it's a weekend fun car... as for what it needs, the gas tank
ventilation needs to be fixed eventually... also, the car needs to be
rewired sometime in the near future... no immediate problems, just the this and thats of an older roadster....



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FM Former Member
I would like to request some advice/input from the group regarding a potential Speedster purchase. As I am a first-timer, I wonder if I might benefit from the group's collective wisdom. I guess I can appreciate the advantage of owning a new VS or JPS, but it seems these cars turn over fairly often. Is it because the owners buy before they know what they are getting into?

For what it is worth, and please excuse the insult to this board, I am also considering a Z-3, 911SC, supercharging a Miata, and a Cobra replica.

In the end, I think the Speedster is by far the most elegant, but I wonder if I should be concerned about the age of Dave's.

Thanks for the help.

Chris

THE CAR: (Reproduced with Dave's permission)

It's an IM that was purchased in 1982 as a rolling chasis (I think, finding the history on these cars is next to impossible). The car was completed in IL and owned by the same gentleman up until 2000 or
so.

Body is in great shape. There is one small spot of rust (about the diameter of a pen cap) in the floor board on the driver's side; however, it's very minor. The body is fiberglass so there's no rust on it... there one small spot in the back of the car where the fiberglass is cracked...

1600CC engine

The car runs fine; however, as for any car of it's age it does require some tweaking from time to time (e.g., carb adjustment, new plugs, etc). Mostly little stuff. Also, with an older restoration, there will be times when you'll need to investigate little annoyance... for example, on this car the driver's side blinker doesn't work... it's a wiring issue... also, the gas tank is not vented properly... so sometimes the fumes in the garage are a
little strong... both of this issues could be solved for a few buck;
however, it needs to be done.... now if you have a new Z3 or Miata you'll never have to address any of these issues....

At the end of the day, this car is not an everyday driver... it's a weekend fun car... as for what it needs, the gas tank
ventilation needs to be fixed eventually... also, the car needs to be
rewired sometime in the near future... no immediate problems, just the this and thats of an older roadster....



FM Former Member
The Z-3, 911SC, or supercharging a Miata, are much better cars. They benefit from years of engineering and design.

The question is what are you after. I bought my speedster based on emotion and my understanding of the handling and maintenance requirements of the beetle family of cars. I love the way rear engine cars handle. I love to play with the oversteer. I have restored Beetles when I was just about broke for less than friends paid for used toyotas. I don't mind adjusting valves and working on a simple to fix car.

When I bought my Toyota truck, I was amazed at the lack of necessary maintenance. Modern cars require little, if any, wrenching.

The choice is yours, but remember these are not modern cars.
FM Former Member
I agree with Eric, e.g., make up your mind as to what you want. I came very close to buying a super-cherry 328 Ferrari GTS a month ago but settled for my new Speedster Carrera replica instead. Anybody with good credit can buy a nice Ferrari 328 (or 308, 308QV, or 348; these are the Fiat V8 "Ferraris") and I don't look like Tom Sellick so the choice was easy - the replica will be quicker than the Ferrari, too.
FM Former Member
Eric:

As a relative mechanical neophyte, would you suggest that the 1600 cc engine is easy to "learn" on?

George: (or Eric)

If I were to decide a Speedster is for me, since I haven't yet driven one, would you have any reservations about the '83 IM, knowing it might need some work, vs. a newer (and understandably more expensive) VS?

Thanks for any help.

Chris

FM Former Member
A 1600cc engine is fine if it is a single port engine. The newer engines have dual intake ports and should use twin carbs. The job of balancing twin carbs is easier than keeping a dual port intake manifold tight and leak free. A 1776 or bigger engine is not really any harder to work on. The only concern should be miles and type of maintenance.

I was going to order a new VS. I wanted the all new parts. I was happily surprised to find a great deal on a new VS with 1200 miles. $15,500.00. There has been a few newer models for sale in the various forums since my purchase.

How old are the brakes? Replace the brakes with discs as soon as possible. Get a good manual. There have been a few mentioned here. Consider the cost of buying a new engine with the purchase. Drive the car. Do You Like It!?
FM Former Member
A more-or-less stock 1600cc VW engine in a replica won't have enough power to pull a fat kid off a tricycle. Driving should be fun, and a lack of horsepower will make it a boring chore.

Do you want some teenager in a Civic with tomato-can muffler and weird graphics blowing you off when the light turns green?
FM Former Member
George:

Though I have no plan to pull fat kids on their tricycles, I would be humbled were I to get blown away by a hopped-up Civic.

It sounds like you might prefer a bigger engine, but are you implying that a newer Speedster is considerably more powerful?

Additionally, if I did want to pull a fat kid off his tryke, could the stock 1600 be modified, or is that a whole new can of worms?

Thanks

Chris
FM Former Member
My last engine was bored/stroked 2,110cc about 165 to 170 BHP. my new 2,387cc engine will probably be around 195 to 215 BHP. Stock 1,600cc dual port single carburetor VW type 1 engine is 55 BHP.

A 130 BHP 2,110cc type 1 engine can be stone reliable and with the correct transaxle gear ratios will provide very good (but not exceptional) performance.
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
Chris, I have an 84 IM that I've owned for about 3 1/2 years. It started out with a stock 1600 motor which I had upgraded to a 1776 a year later. I got sick and tired of being blown away by older 4 cylinder Honda Accords etc. (probably auto boxes). The 1776 was a big improvement, but with stock heads and a mild cam it was quick but nowhere near fast. I've now upgraded again to a 2110 with 044 heads. Next year I want to get the heads done and sell my Weber 40's for 48 IDA's or IDF's. The urge for more power never seems to stop.
These cars are nowhere near as reliable as a Miata or Z3, but I wouldn't sell mine for either...well maybe an M Roadster. My wife also tells me it's a money pit...but I don't believe her.
Ron
Stan GalatStan Galat
What do you plan to do with the car? You have to understand that unless you are ready to spend really serious money, even little things that we have all taken for granted for many years are a struggle with a replica. Making a replica water-tight, for example, is next to impossible. Making it wind-tight really IS impossible. NO ONE drives one in the rain on purpose. If a Z3 would do it for you- than by all means, buy one. REALLY nice ones can be had all over for $15K- $20K. That kind of money gets you in the door in this club- talk to George about how much is possible when you go full tilt. But for most of us here, nothing but a 356 replica will do (unless it's a 550). For those of us not in CA, or FL, or TX, we have to learn to live with the limitations of usability, and constantly try to make improvements to get an extra 2 weeks in the spring and fall. Its going to be minus 12 deg tonight- I'll not be driving my replica for a while, but if I had a Z3- it could be out every day. I have a '96 328i- its everything my speedster is not. It is almost impossibly tight. Its got heated seats. Its got a weather radio for crying out loud. I got it for less than TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS! And you know what... If I and to choose one or the other, I'd probably keep the speedster which cost close to three times as much by the time you add freight and upgrades. Probably. My advise? Buy what you are after.

(Message Edited 1/21/2003 9:21:46 PM)
FM Former Member
Thanks for all of the input.

After absorbing what you all have said, I still wonder whether the inclination of thegroup would be to start with the '83 IM that Dave has, with an eye towards upgrading the engine in the future.

Alternatively, the VS sponsored car looks awfully nice, though it too has a less powerful engine overall.

My apologies for the ongoing dialogue, but it is tough to find a car like this to drive in Northeast Wisconsin, especialy when the wind chill is -20F.

Thanks for the help!

Chris
WideRidezzzWideRidezzz
Hey CMoss...
Here's my two cents worth.
I've been a Porsche fanatic all my life and the thoughts of a replica sent a chill up my spine.
BUT I bought one anyway. Granted I have an older 911Carrera, that doesn't leak as much, that I drive more often in the winter,but I view my Vintage (purchased a year old w/2700KM on the clock)as a driver.
Very reliable, with some minor fix-em-ups.
Originally very under-powered with a stock 1776 and single carb.
Now an intoxicant for even higher performance and by today's money standards, within reasonable reach.

The coachwork of an IM has been bragged up and down by owners of the marque, over the 'other' brands. EH?

The resale value has been up and down. I feel I bought mine when there was some growing interest and may have paid a $1000 more than neccessary, but it has been a very enjoyable $17,000 expenditure.

You really have to look at this replica thing like you'd look at any other large purchase item. The Vintage being offered on site is a value. The IM you are describing sounds like a bargain.

What is your experience with bargain shopping?

The Vintage is literally a turnkey and you could drive it, enjoy it and never feel the need to tweak it. The IM may need some initial shop work and then it happens, " Well as long as we have it in for XYZ, why don't you consider QRX..." and so it starts.
MM
FM Former Member
C Moss, In all my years of buying expensive cars, guns, and boats, the best advice I've ever been given was "spend as much as you can possiblly afford up front to get the best possible base to start with. Because anything you do after will allways be harder and more expensive. JMHO.
K ktmitsy
I gotta tell you... reading all of the comments above makes me not want to sell the '83 IM... If I wasn't closing on a house next month I wouldn't... regarding a bargin... hell yes it's a bargin... at the same time, value might also play here... I told Chris it depends on what he's looking for out of a car... for me, I didn't have $20G to drop on a car I wouldn't drive everyday... I am a weekend warrior that drives my Speedster about 10 - 20 times per year... that's enough for me...

Hey guys, thanks for not bashing my '83 IM too much... it is a very nice car...

Dave
Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
I bought my 84 IM three years ago for $16,000 (Canadian) and since then I've put about 10 grand into it. For that price I could have bought a newer IM with a tube frame, instead of the Beetle pan. Would I have a better car? Sure. But I've had one hell of a lot of fun personalizing my car. For me, a big part of owning these cars is looking at the plethora of after market and customized parts avaliable, and then picking and choosing what I want on my car.
Ron
FM Former Member
If you are mechanically oriented, or have access to a friendly VW or german mechanic, you can handle the IM. The gas and turn indicator are simple fixes. Sounds like a check valve on the vent and a probable ground on the indicator.

A 1600 will get you around and you'll get to enjoy showing it off for the first season. If you are like many of us, you won't be able to resist backing up the classic look with some state of the art performance...

If you are looking for a classic look, not a comfortable sportcar, then go Speedster. If you want some creature comforts and the classic look, maybe you want to consider the VS... a turnkey classic sports car wonder. jmo
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