901 adaptation?

Carl- All of the 901 trans to VW conversions I have seen/read about have been into independent rear suspension (irs) equipped cars. Dave Folts builds a kit to install a VW type 2 irs transaxle into swingaxle beetles for drag racing, but I've never heard of anyone using it in a street car. The kit consists of (I believe, don't hold me to it) a u-joint that attaches to the output shaft and a custom axle. I don't know what's used at the spring plate/drum end.

You could weld irs pivot brackets into your car and convert to irs; it would even improve handling. With the cost of a 901 trans (and refurbishing) and converting, wouldn't a 5 speed from Gene Berg Enterprises be a viable option? The kits can be built swing or irs. Al

Thanks Al, your response is just the kind of 'experienced' feedback I need to scratch this itch with!!

Gene Berg $$ is out of the question. The cost of this 901 isn't too much more than the price of a decent boat anchor...it sort of looks like that's what it's been used for too. As for refurbishing, that would be totally up to me.

"weld pivot brackets"?? This I've got to investigate. Harbor Freight was foolish enough to sell me a mig welder...and I'm just foolish enough to think I can use it.

That's pivots for the trailing arms; they're mounted where the frame horns join the torsion tube. There are templates to locate the pivots so they are in the right place. Some places that sell the pivots have them. Try Aircooled.net, maybe?

Another point with a side shifter is that those were for mid-engined cars - the later 914's.  So when the transaxle is facing forward as in a 914, the side shift mechanism on on the left side.  When you push the shifter forward (like for reverse, 2nd and 4th) then the shift rod pushes external mechanism on the transaxle toward the rear of the car or if it makes this easier to understand - toward the tail end of the transaxle.

When you put a side shifter into a rear engine configuration (obviously flip the ring and pinion - easy on this trans) you now have to think about the shift configuration.  Now when you move the shifter forward (reverse, 2rd and 4th), the linkage pushes the external mechanism toward the rear of the car - but now this is the FRONT of the transaxle.   So guess what?  Your shift pattern is upside down.  It is also flipped left to right so your reverse/1st is now on the right and 4/5 is on the left...  Upside down AND backwards...

I'm sure there is a cable mechanism, or possibly a mechanical one, to resolve this that someone has utilized that will reverse the throw so that you select the standard pattern for a 901 (reverse on top, first on bottom - swing across and up to 2nd, etc).  But let me offer this suggestion...

The side shifter is the one everyone who builds a mid-engine car wants.  Everyone from the 914 guys to the spyder guys, etc.  Why not swap it for a tail shifter?  In a speedster configuration, the tail shift 901 is a delight.  Incredibly direct shifting, fully sorted, no guessing and no gimmics.  A tail shift 914 transaxle is EXTREMELY cheap.  It is the cheapest 901 you can own which means that you may on a trade, get that transaxle PLUS cash for your side shifter.  Cash is cool... 

Just a thought.

angela

Talk to Kevin at Mendeola Suspension in San Diego.  He knows everything about setting these up.  He set me up with a front transmission mount that makes life a lot easier when doing this and it makes the install look factory.  Check out this posting and look at the photos I have up there.

https://www.speedsterowners.com...ent/2135445019639222

My car was already setup with a 901 in it so you still have to deal with a lot of other stuff but Kevin is a cool guy and I know he can help you out.  He also did some aluminum welding on the bell side of my case so i could use VW motor mounts as well.

Angela, it's a pleasure to see your post. It's been a long time.

Thank you for your experienced info on the 901. The purchase is iffy and may not go through, and would be way at the bottom of my to do list anyway...But in case it is purchased I contacted an tranny guru here on the east coast for an estimate on cracking it open for inspection, flipping the R/P, buttoning it back up and telling me if it was a good buy or an odd shaped boat anchor!...Well, his inspection quote is $450...Flipping the R/P is an additional $125!!!...gulp.

Your statement that the R/P is no big deal gives me hope that I'll be able to wrench it open and determine if it's a boat anchor or not.

...and, Angela, your old comment that Steve married you because you were fertile, had a steady job, and owned your own tools...still gets a chuckle out of me. You sound like a great gal.

Carl... (BTW my VS and S-10 are black, black, black)

That's pretty steep for an inspection assuming that the transaxle is out of the car.  When we realized our first one had the R&P flipped the wrong way, we got phone directions to flip it.  With the transaxle out of the car, I think we spent maybe an hour pulling the whole case off, flipping the R&P, and putting it back together.  First time - never done one before.  

One thing to point out from HBKMAT is that he is using a 901 from a 911/912.  Those have a mount from the bottom.  The 914's 901 hangs by ears that are at the tail of the transaxle.  In a rear engine configuration, you'll have to see if those will clear - or swap to a 911 style which should clear w/o problems.  Sorry - forgot about the ears when I put the above post up - too much egg nog.

Alot of fellows put he 911/912 901 into VW bugs so the bits to do that are sorted, available and there are several "how to's" on the internet.  Kevin at Mendeola is tremendously knowledgeable.  

One thing to be aware of with 901 transaxles is that the early ones (911/912) have known weak spot called a simplified differential.  Not sure which ones did or did not have the simplified diff. The 914's were a later style and this had been fixed by the factory.  I am bringing this point up because if you opt for the 911/912 early transaxle, this may not have been fixed.  A speedster and an early 911/912 only weigh a few hundred pounds difference and none of those early cars was more than 190 hp.  With stoutly built new engines and modern sticky ties, this is a point that should be addressed.  When shopping, also remember that the 901 from a 911/912 can be either a 4 speed or a 5 speed whereas all 914's were 5 speeds.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com...01-07-transaxle.html

That said, in my humble opinion, the 901 is a lovely transaxle for a speedster.  Not as strong as the later 915, but definately lighter, and it shifts very nicely.  Don't hammer on first gear and the lifespan is very satisfactory.  

angela (got tools, love black cars)

901 from an early 911/912 - see mount?  Bottom side - bolts on/off.  You can remove the mount and just put on anything that you need - including a VW/Speedster conversion.

Now this is a 914 - check out the big ole ears on that one - they are cast into that part of the case.  I apologize for the dirtiness, this was pulled from the internet.

As Angela mentioned go for the 914 '70-72 tail shift transmission over the '73 up side shifter.  Early 914 owners often convert to the side shifter as it gives them a more precise shift (less linkage and play).  Be sure to get the shifter and linkage as they are required too.  I sure wouldn't pay $450 for just an inspection of a 914 trans.  I wouldn't pay over $200 for a used one either.  Lots of rusted out 914 on East Coast so many are available. Just pull drain plug and inspect the old fluid for gear bits and silvery shavings - sure not a 100% check though.  Below is close up of the tail shifter 914 trans - it is to the side but not nearly as much as the later side shift version.  You do need to replace the nose cone and couple interior bits to get it exactly like the 912/911 901 version (using a 911 nose cone or specially machined one).

Angela, Wolfgang, & all of SOC!

Taking your advise and passing on the side shift. Just purchased a 901 5 speed tail shift from a 914 (for half the asking price of the side shift!)

This is going to be a complicated (for me) adaptation to my type1 engine because my swing axle will have to be... as I understand it ...converted to an IRS. And with that done the type1 will eventually be swaped for a Subie EJ.

This is an ambitious, perhaps daunting, project for me that has to be done as inexpensively as possible...so over time I'll be gathering the required parts, compiling information, and asking advice!

Should you have answers for questions that haven't even occurred to me yet: carlberrystudio@yahoo.com

Thanks, Carl 

Keep combing the Samba and Shop Talk Forums for info on the conversion from swing arm to IRS.  It's not too big a deal and you also then have the option of going for a Porsche 924 or 944 hubset and diagonal arms, including the rear disk brake and e-brake setup.  Get the weld-on diagonal arm mounts, then weld them in where they tell ya and everything bolts in.

Wait a minute!  What's your plan for getting the torsion bars out and swapping spring plates (if necessary)???????  The torsion bars are captive on Speedsters because there's no  hole in the body/fender) to allow the bar end cap to be removed.  That might be a show-stopper, unless you have a plan for lifting the body up or cutting a hole in the fender.

You might end up opting to sell your swing-arm car and just buy an IRS Speedster, instead.  That would be a LOT less work - Just fab a front mount for the tranny and bolt everything in!

If it were me, I would keep collecting parts (you already have the tranny, after all, so get it freshened) and get a Subaru engine and conversion kit lined up during 2013, then, find a decent IRS Speedster that you like (engine version is a don't care), sell your current car and buy the IRS car, then sell the engine and tranny out of it and install your new stuff.  

You can take your time during 2013 to gather stuff and do the job right over next winter.  In my humble, thinking-inside-the-box opinion

Inexpensively? Not sure that is possible especially since you are starting with swing axel.  Check out the fake inspection holes on VS/JPS for removing the rear torsion bars.  Holes could me cut out and glassed back on for a more authentic look.  Gordon is probably right.  At least buy a new chassis and make alteration to it and then swap your body over when done.  Someone (in PA?) has/had a tubular chassis for sale - that would be simplest solution. Your old chassis/engine could be sold either for another Speedster owner or shortened more for a dune buggie.

Assume you have link to 5 spd conversion with photos?  You will need new 912/911 nose cone - again, someone on SOC had extra.  I've heard that swapping the pinion gear is easy but don't know of anyone that has done (takes moving the vent and some clearancing I believe). I'd tackle that as you go through trans to ensure its serviceable - before you invest much more time/$.