901 or 902 tranny?? Which is better

I want to put a 5 speed in my speedster with the intent of better ratios for spirited driving as well as cruising on the freeway, It looks like a Porsche 901 or 902 trans is the easiest way to accomplish the task. I am running a type 1 vw motor with approximately 150 -160hp. Which would be better a 901 box from a 911, or a 902 from a 912? On one hand I think the trans from the 912 would be more suited to a 4 cylinder application, but on the other hand the bug engine probably is as powerful as a 911 was in 1969? I would prefer to buy a tranny I can use without changing ratios and will fit my needs with the stock gears. If anyone has input I would appreciate it. Also if you have a 5 speed, shifter, shift rod and couplers, please let me know as I will be needing them.

It might be easier to use the Gene Berg 5-speed conversion on a VW transmission.

I'd use a berg set-up if I was a millionare, does anyone have a used one? The idea behind the 901 is to be able to find one that works and not have any rebuilding costs. I could buy 3 or 4 used 901 or 902 for the prices I've seen 5 speed conversions. Does the berg have any major advantages that make it worth the big coin? The fabricating of mounts etc doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't want to rebuild a box myself. If someone has a working berg for reasonable $$ let me know, that may be as likely as someone having an extra pot of gold laying around.

Berg unit is like $3k! I've been toying with idea of a '70-72 Porsche 914 5 Spd. (Later models are side shifter which would be more difficult to mate to shift mechanism). Apparently it is 901 transmission but with a different case. They can be had in good shape for under $300. Apparently flipping the pinion gear (so you don't have 5 speeds in reverse!) is a snap. Here's UK site that had info on other challenges:

http://www.bugat5speed.de/cms/content/view/21/52/lang,en/

Flipping the ring gear is easy and fast on a 901. Steve had to do it in ours as the transaxle came from the builder with the ring and pinion turned the wrong way (so we had 5 reverse gears...)

angela

I was told you can use the nosecone from a 901 or 902, along with some internal rods and adapt a 914 from side shift to tailshift like a vw. Has anyone done this? Is it a difficult process?

Yes, you can do that. YOu can also switch a side-shift 914 to a tail-shift 914. The tail-shift 914 transaxle is usually the cheaper of the two 914's to begin with though. Going 914 side shift to 914 tail shift is a pretty cheap swap because the 914 guys go the other way around for better shifting in mid engined cars. That means that tail-shift pieces are laying around collecting dust... Somewhere. Check a 914 forum, might pick one up cheap.

angela

I looked into converting the 914 transaxle but after doing the research I found that it will be less expensive to buy a freshly rebuild 901 with a tailer 5th gear.

I have the 914 transaxle(tail shifter) but still needed to buy a kit with shifter forks, new nose cone and mounting arm about $2500.

Is there a reason you wouldn't consider going with a 915, to get rid of the 901's 'dog leg' shift from 1st to 2nd?
Ron

I have heard that after you get used to the dog leg that the 901 or 902 actually shifts much better. I am also worried about having to cut too much out of the frame horns to clearannce for the bigger case of the 915. Anyone out there put a 915 in a VW??My other concern is that the 915 came in a 911 with way more horsepower than a early 911 or 912 did. I was afraid if I use a 150 hp motor the stock gears would be too tall. I'd like to use a box that can be utilized without an expensive rebuild or changing of ratios. I have never put a 5 speed in a vw before and am relying on hunches and second hand knowledge. Any input is appreciated.

I would think that a 902 would be better than a 901 for a VW based car. Although your engine has the HP of an early 911 does it have the RPM's and does peak power come on at the same time as a 911? I would think that these may be more important than just the HP.

The 902 was geared for a 4 cylinder with less top RPM than a 911 and about 100HP, but of course it could handle more. Angela once posted the gear ratios between the 902 and 901 and you may be able to find that in her pics to try and compare.

Personally I like the shifting of the 901 versus the 915. For some reason it just seems more intuitive to me. Plus there's little change of catching 2nd when you want to downshift from 5th to 4th.

If you are interested, I do have a spare 902 that I'll probably sell...but the shipping from here is dear. Its in good condition but suffers from the usual 1st gear synchro problems where you have to come to a stop before downshifting to 1st. Pelican Parts forum has a tech article on how to replace this synchro, looks not too difficult, and I think the parts are about $250. I just learned to live with it.

Brian

Oh yeah, forgot I'd posted that chart...

angela

I don't see a 902 listed and I'm up in a small community on Hudson's Bay at the moment so can't check mine at home. I suspect the 912 is the 901/12 or 901/13 as I don't thing that the 911 ever cam with a 5 speed although it probably could be ordered.

We've had a couple of early 911's in the shop - all 5 speed. Maybe you could get a 4, but I don't know under what circumstances. We've also had a couple of early 912's in. One was a 4 speed, the other's were 5 speeds. Don't know the circumstances for those either.

EDIT:

Redbook shows all 911's, even pre-production 64/65 prototypes as having 5 speeds. EXCEPT looks like the elusive 902 was a 4 speed offered in the US only in 1967/68.

So it would seem a 902 is the 4 speed and it is fairly rare. Not necessarily desirable for your conversion, but fairly rare.

angela

I had a "discussion" with someone on Pelican that assured me I was a dumbas#$& because I didnt know that all 911's came in 4 speed. The 5 speed was a extra cost option that had to be ordered. It was an "option" that was sort of forced apon you. Thats why 99 % are 5spds

...hmmm, aside from the early Turbo's, I've NEVER seen a 4-speed on either a European or U.S. model 911.

In a similar vein as the 'expert' at Pelican, I was at the Newport Beach Porsche Dealership (SoCal) looking for a replacement steering stabilizer (looks like a little shock absorber) for my '68 911S. The parts guys at the dealership told me there was no such thing for that car. I asked if I could look through the dealership parts micro-fisch/microfilm (this was in the pre-computer age of the mid '70s).

After a minute of scanning the micro-fisch, I pointed out the part I needed and read out the stock number. His reply was "...I didn't realize they had those!". Obviously!!! Just shut-up you dumb-ass and get me my part!

That was my position on the 4 speed(only turbo). I have the Factory manual and it does list the 4 speed(with ratio's)for the 911 and a different one for the 912.

Lots of people emailed about owning(or knew someone that did) a 4 spd 911. It's not rare nor uncommon.I just never knew about it.

Bryan

BT -

That's what I enjoy about SOC, I learn something new most everytime I visit this site!!

Peace - Out!

By the way, if you come across a turbo 4-speed at a decent price buy it and put it in storage. Sell it when you need cashola - they are money in the bank... It's not a 901 though, it's a rare 915.

angela