Aloha,
Will they fit in a Speedster and how much do they cost? I'm guessing that replacement parts and initial cost are prohibitive...but I just had to ask.
mahalo,
Joel
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Aloha,
Will they fit in a Speedster and how much do they cost? I'm guessing that replacement parts and initial cost are prohibitive...but I just had to ask.
mahalo,
Joel
Will they fit in a Speedster and how much do they cost? I'm guessing that replacement parts and initial cost are prohibitive...but I just had to ask.
mahalo,
Joel
Oh yes, and yes, and yes indeed to added expense; I've had a 911.
Best fit would be in an IM because of the additional space for an engine (mounts are 2 3/4" to 3" farther forward), the tube frame which allows a custom "hanger" engine/trans mount, etc. It would be best to upgrade the rear torsion bars to a larger diameter and use a Porsche 901 four or five speed tranaxle, too (which means an IRS pan if your car is pan based).
After all of that is done the car will have a truly HORRIBLE rear weight bias and handle like a ruptured duck in quick corners, so maybe add 150 lbs. (or more, lead?) in the trunk which kinda defeats some of the extra BHP.
Best fit would be in an IM because of the additional space for an engine (mounts are 2 3/4" to 3" farther forward), the tube frame which allows a custom "hanger" engine/trans mount, etc. It would be best to upgrade the rear torsion bars to a larger diameter and use a Porsche 901 four or five speed tranaxle, too (which means an IRS pan if your car is pan based).
After all of that is done the car will have a truly HORRIBLE rear weight bias and handle like a ruptured duck in quick corners, so maybe add 150 lbs. (or more, lead?) in the trunk which kinda defeats some of the extra BHP.
Joel, take my word for it. Don't do it!! Do yourself a favor, check the price a type I or IV engine vs. a newly rebuilt 911 engine. You will be able to get pretty wild VW engine for considerably less than a 911 engine & rebuilds are a hell of alot cheaper with the VW. I started my speedster project with a 911 engine I had left over. After much frustration & frame/suspension mods. I'm switching back to a Type IV engine with 901 tranny. I'll put the 911 engine where it belongs, back in a P-car.
My IM has a 911 engine and I wouldn't trade it for a VW. Having said that...I wouldn't build one with a 911 (bought mine already done)unless I had a lot of money to spare. The HP that is coming out of the VW nowadays combined with the lower weight will make a better handling car.
As far as HP goes...you can't compare these cars to say a Neon boasting 135HP. A Neon weights a lot more than these speedsters. It does not take much HP to enjoy these cars. You don't need a Turbo with 200+ HP to have fun. These cars are all about low weight, modest HP and low gearing...with that combo you'll have a great car. You can always add a higher HP VW engine later on with very little mods.
I'm looking at getting higher HP out of my 911 and let me tell you the options are very costly. Up to $1,195 for cams, $1,500 for pistons/cylinders, then the build...$5-$10K minimum. (I'm thinking of Nitrous for $600...comments?) Switching to a VW now would mean a fair amount of modifications.
Brian
As far as HP goes...you can't compare these cars to say a Neon boasting 135HP. A Neon weights a lot more than these speedsters. It does not take much HP to enjoy these cars. You don't need a Turbo with 200+ HP to have fun. These cars are all about low weight, modest HP and low gearing...with that combo you'll have a great car. You can always add a higher HP VW engine later on with very little mods.
I'm looking at getting higher HP out of my 911 and let me tell you the options are very costly. Up to $1,195 for cams, $1,500 for pistons/cylinders, then the build...$5-$10K minimum. (I'm thinking of Nitrous for $600...comments?) Switching to a VW now would mean a fair amount of modifications.
Brian
Brian, back in 1990 we rebuilt my 2.4 73 1/2 911T into a 2.7 nicasil cylinder engine with E cams, NOS dual Webers, aluminum flywheel, and a very nice S/S aftermarket performance exhaust. Installed IX XI chain guides and upgraded to hydraulic "Carrera" style chain tensioners. I can't remeber everything we did but it cost a bit over $10,000 and that was then. Power ouput at the flywheel was around 230 BHP and throttle response was very quick indeed.
I imagine that engine would cost a bit more than $10,000 to build today.
I imagine that engine would cost a bit more than $10,000 to build today.
Alohas,
I knew it was going to be in the $10k range to have a nicely rebuilt 911 engine, and I know its almost 5 times the cost for parts and everything else. But, they sound so cool. :)
I suppose I should be practical, but then again...these cars aren't exactly practical in and of themselves.
Oh well.
mahalos again,
Joel
I knew it was going to be in the $10k range to have a nicely rebuilt 911 engine, and I know its almost 5 times the cost for parts and everything else. But, they sound so cool. :)
I suppose I should be practical, but then again...these cars aren't exactly practical in and of themselves.
Oh well.
mahalos again,
Joel
Brian, I just got my 911 engine back from the builder. Complete tear down, new pistons, cams, the works. My bill was just shy of 5K and that was with a little horse trading, etc. I'm still tempted to stuff it into the speedster. As for nitros. that'll shorten the life of any engine. Honda's are a dime a dozen & cheap so let'em run nitros. How about a turbo or supercharger. There's a group down in NYC that will make a supercharger for any porsche engine. Lots o'bucks & lot o'HP!!!
$5K sounds very good!
I know I spent $5K CDN 10 years ago to rebuild my 912 and I did the tear down and assembly myself. I guess it all comes down to what has to be renewed. When I did the 912 it was always "Well, since I've gone this far I might as well _______" ..you fill in the blank with words like new cam, new lifters, new pistons and jugs, new carbs, etc. Then you might as well powder coat all sheet metal and Cad II plate all nuts, bolts, etc. What started off as replace the flywheel seal cause it was leaking on the clutch disc ended up with a full rebuild.
Brian
I know I spent $5K CDN 10 years ago to rebuild my 912 and I did the tear down and assembly myself. I guess it all comes down to what has to be renewed. When I did the 912 it was always "Well, since I've gone this far I might as well _______" ..you fill in the blank with words like new cam, new lifters, new pistons and jugs, new carbs, etc. Then you might as well powder coat all sheet metal and Cad II plate all nuts, bolts, etc. What started off as replace the flywheel seal cause it was leaking on the clutch disc ended up with a full rebuild.
Brian
I'm with ys JOEL. I could whait for a lambo, but I KNOW these little 'TUBS' are so cool.
Joel; You can't throw $$$$ at this. It is a work of the heart. (art)Eather you love'em or you don't. That goes for all the 911's, boxter's 944's ect. It aint the same!!! These are the Daddy's. The seat of the pants gut cars that made ALL the rest.
Fly a Lear or a Beech. Nice, but not as much FUN as a BIPLAIN.
Fly a Lear or a Beech. Nice, but not as much FUN as a BIPLAIN.
I'm with JOEL. I could whait for a lambo, but I KNOW these little 'TUBS' are so cool. The owners of the above are not too cool eather. 356's are a 'nice' bunch that allways help. Not snobs. Sorry I have had both sides, and I will stick with my little 'tub', and I can whait for a LAMBO. DOUG I'll go for him, HE HE HE LOL
Have you looked into installing a VW type4 motor? MUCH cheaper than a flat 6 to build and maintain. If power is what you're looking for, you can always turbo a small type1 motor- a well built stock 1600 with 6-8 pounds of boost will give you 125 or so ft. pounds of torque and ~120 HP.
Or, how about one of the 911 four cylinder SOHC engines? Dean Polopolus can supply the main case castings, crankshaft, cams, modified cam towers and valve covers, and modified oil pump. You need donor engine rods, cylinders and pistons,custom exhaust, oil tank, and cam drive housings and parts, flywheel and clutch, and complete cylinder head assemblies. Dean can also supply intake manifolds for a dual 48 IDA Weber carburetor setup. The 911 fan shroud has to be customized, or Dean can supply a custom fiberglass one.
Best results would be with dual ignition; Dean can supply a distributor. A 2.4 liter version would probably make 220 BHP without raising a sweat. If you're good at scrounging 911 parts you might be able to build one for $15,000 or less.
(Message Edited 6/19/2003 12:34:37 PM)
Best results would be with dual ignition; Dean can supply a distributor. A 2.4 liter version would probably make 220 BHP without raising a sweat. If you're good at scrounging 911 parts you might be able to build one for $15,000 or less.
(Message Edited 6/19/2003 12:34:37 PM)
Phillip, you can build a type 1 2,110 turbo that will make 240 BHP, act like a lamb until you put your foot in it, has 1 lb. boost at around 2,000 RPM and suffers very little (if any) "turo lag" above 3,000 RPM. CB Performance has a "hide-away" blow-through turbo kit that will work on most Speedster replicas.
The problem would be keeping your VW transaxle from grenading; it should be a late swing axle with welded gears, super-diff, etc., (or comparable, built-up IRS unit). Even with a "built" transaxle you might break it - fast turbo and non-turbo VW 1/4 mile cars break transaxles all the time.
The problem would be keeping your VW transaxle from grenading; it should be a late swing axle with welded gears, super-diff, etc., (or comparable, built-up IRS unit). Even with a "built" transaxle you might break it - fast turbo and non-turbo VW 1/4 mile cars break transaxles all the time.
I have the 911 Speedster featured in Excellence in October of last year. It is a stone grey Carrera look speedster. The car is very well balanced. I bought the engine (2.7RS) from Dave Avery (spyderclub.com) for $4500 with carbs. Other than replacing seals and some carb tuning issues, it has been a dream.
There is extra cost, but the hp and torque is awesome. Coupled to the 915 transmission, it is a joy to drive.
Don't listen to the guys who haven't driven a speedster with a 911. They don't know.
There is extra cost, but the hp and torque is awesome. Coupled to the 915 transmission, it is a joy to drive.
Don't listen to the guys who haven't driven a speedster with a 911. They don't know.
If you are going to do a 911 powered car, the only way to go is IM.
Henry and his father have outdone themselves.
Henry and his father have outdone themselves.
Mike,
For the past two days I've been eyeing the article about your car in Excellence (BTW, September issue) wondering how to contact you and here you are. Gorgeous car! Are you planning to bring that beauty to the East Coast Speedster Meet at Carlisle in May? Henry Reisner will be there and doing a seminar. Are you still living in Michigan? There are several Speedsters coming from your direction. I'll add you to our distribution list and hope you'll be able to join us. Check it out: SpeedstersEast.home.att.net
For the past two days I've been eyeing the article about your car in Excellence (BTW, September issue) wondering how to contact you and here you are. Gorgeous car! Are you planning to bring that beauty to the East Coast Speedster Meet at Carlisle in May? Henry Reisner will be there and doing a seminar. Are you still living in Michigan? There are several Speedsters coming from your direction. I'll add you to our distribution list and hope you'll be able to join us. Check it out: SpeedstersEast.home.att.net
Before I'd go with a 911 --- I'd look at installing a Subaru engine. Either a 4 or 6 would fit. Turbos available too. Plus you'd get a modern engine with heat and AC and decent gas mileage, low polution and modern electrics. 137 hp - 270 hp with 4 speed automatic or 5 spd manual. Check out
www.specialtyauto.com/Engines%20and%20Transaxles.htm
www.specialtyauto.com/PORSCHE.htm
www.specialtyauto.com/Engines%20and%20Transaxles.htm
www.specialtyauto.com/PORSCHE.htm
I spent last weekend at Intermeccanica sitting around talking with Henry and his wonderful mom. He had a car in the shop that was stunning. Talking with Henry has convinced me that were I to do it again I would do a 911 based car, and it would be a roadster. 7 inch wheels in front, 9 inch in the rear, ft and rear 17" diam. 3 piece fuchs center w/BBS inner and outer. 3.2 L carrera engine and full 911 carrera suspension. 21 gal fuel cell....
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Dale,,,What's the cost on something like that ? Must be astronomical
"The vacaville guy"
"The vacaville guy"
Hey Dale, that blue IM looks like it's four wheel drive!
Ron
Or is it that it's driving on four wheels?
Either way....I want it!
Ron
Or is it that it's driving on four wheels?
Either way....I want it!
Gary: I dont know the full price. It really depends on the cost of the 911 parts. The best, most ECONOMICAL way is to find a 911 for the donor parts that may have a bad body but good mechanicals. Then ship or drive them to Henry. He has a frame that is made for 911 running gear. It has more reinforcement to handle the added weight, power and suspension.
Dale:
Is this just some 'California dreamin', or will your Speedster be for sale soon?
Bob
Is this just some 'California dreamin', or will your Speedster be for sale soon?
Bob
It is pure dreaming. I do often wake up knowing Ive been dreaming about it however. No car change in sight. Just hearing that car's engine/exhaust does stiffen the sole however.
oops question asked and answered up above
If all goes according to plan, this summer I will have a 3.0 911 engine for sale. It is fuel injected, smog legal, upgraded tensioners and very strong with only about 120K on it.
I say this not as the shameless self-promoter I can be, but from a plan ahea d point of view having recently been thwarted on a few upgrades to my speedster, that with proper planning in the build stage would have been accomplished easily...but now, F- - - - it, too much hassle, too many dollarzzz!
So, you guys tuning in and squirming to have some authority under the hood, let me know.
I say this not as the shameless self-promoter I can be, but from a plan ahea d point of view having recently been thwarted on a few upgrades to my speedster, that with proper planning in the build stage would have been accomplished easily...but now, F- - - - it, too much hassle, too many dollarzzz!
So, you guys tuning in and squirming to have some authority under the hood, let me know.
Paul, don't you also have a 60-67 single cab?
Ron
Ron
911 engines are great till they break... The open the wallet.
Hell, I can build half of a TIV engine for what it cost for tune up parts!
Hell, I can build half of a TIV engine for what it cost for tune up parts!
I had to replace the fuel pump in my 911 pickup. I couldn't beleive the price of a new fuel pump. $425 US! Also needed a fuel accumulator...$88. Luckily, I found a used fuel pump for $85 Canadian (I'll have to see how long it lasts). Now I'm looking at spark plug wires...$200 US. I agree with Jake. These engines are NOT cheap to run.
Ron
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS
NEED TO BE CHANGED,
FOR THE SAME REASON
Ron
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS
NEED TO BE CHANGED,
FOR THE SAME REASON
I have seen spark plug wires go for over 300.00, alternators for over 1K, and I won't touch any engine build for less than 10K STOCK!
Ron,
My V-dub is a 1957. It will get my 1776 when the dust settles after this T-4 extravaganza.
My V-dub is a 1957. It will get my 1776 when the dust settles after this T-4 extravaganza.
I used a Fuel Cell as well. With the weight of the fuel cell and fuel moved up front and low, it offsets the weight of the engine in the rear somewhat.
There are many dismantlers (Oklahoma Foreign) that will sell complete suspension front and rear, transmissions, etc.
If you spend the time, it (911 power) can be done reasonably.
There are many dismantlers (Oklahoma Foreign) that will sell complete suspension front and rear, transmissions, etc.
If you spend the time, it (911 power) can be done reasonably.
I've heard that it's not uncommon to get 150k out of a Porsche 3.0 litre, with regular maintance. Less with the 2.7, but I'm not that concerned, since I only have 69k on my motor (famous last words). Adjusting the valves is an absolute bitch of a job. Can take up to (and over) 4 hours to do a complete valve adjustment! There is some consolation, in that they 'only' have to be adjusted every 10k. I have had a fair amount of trouble with my CIS fuel injection system. I may end up going to triple Webers, sometime down the road.
Ron
Ron
Nice to see this thread resurrected.
I decided that if I want a flat six, I'll buy a 911 and keep it in a 911.
The only reason I don't give Jake a ring and go for a T-4 is that I already have a T-1 sitting here collecting dust as I type. I could sell it, but I have an awful lot of cash invested in it and it'd be a shame to just let it go (I only got to break it in before I sold my project Bug to help pay for my wedding reception...I'm sure I've said that before...okay, I'll shut up).
I did the T-1 thing because I thought it would be less expensive. Turned out to be damned near as much as an engine Jake could've put together for me.
~Joel
I decided that if I want a flat six, I'll buy a 911 and keep it in a 911.
The only reason I don't give Jake a ring and go for a T-4 is that I already have a T-1 sitting here collecting dust as I type. I could sell it, but I have an awful lot of cash invested in it and it'd be a shame to just let it go (I only got to break it in before I sold my project Bug to help pay for my wedding reception...I'm sure I've said that before...okay, I'll shut up).
I did the T-1 thing because I thought it would be less expensive. Turned out to be damned near as much as an engine Jake could've put together for me.
~Joel
Ron,
I think you underestimated the life of a well cared for 3.0 by as much as 100K miles.
Known to wear out odometers,
MM
I think you underestimated the life of a well cared for 3.0 by as much as 100K miles.
Known to wear out odometers,
MM
Joel- That happens all the time...
Plus you didn't get our balance or dyno service-
I have seen guys spend more in parts than I sell the entire engine for.
Plus you didn't get our balance or dyno service-
I have seen guys spend more in parts than I sell the entire engine for.
Aloha Jake,
I have to be honest and say that I was also wary of shipping costs from Georgia to Honolulu. I know I never asked, but its just ridiculous to ship things (via freight) that weigh less than a fifth of what a VW engine weighs, so I figured it'd be insane coming from Georgia.
Anyhow...I am thinking of selling my T-1, and then when I am finally able to get myself a fun little Porsche (real or replica) I'll be giving you a call. Of course you probably hear that a lot. It might take a long while, but I'll be in contact.
~Joel
I have to be honest and say that I was also wary of shipping costs from Georgia to Honolulu. I know I never asked, but its just ridiculous to ship things (via freight) that weigh less than a fifth of what a VW engine weighs, so I figured it'd be insane coming from Georgia.
Anyhow...I am thinking of selling my T-1, and then when I am finally able to get myself a fun little Porsche (real or replica) I'll be giving you a call. Of course you probably hear that a lot. It might take a long while, but I'll be in contact.
~Joel
my daily driver 911 with 3.2l engine is just going through 232,000 miles and runs great. One valve job and two alternators are the only unexpected maintenance items to date.
great engine!
Mike
great engine!
Mike
Very true, Paul. Guys have posted on the Pelican forum with 3 litre motors running well over 200k. Seems that valve guides are the first thing to go...resulting in start up smoking....but they just keep on going.
Ron
Ron