911 Fan Cooling Kit

I was looking through the latest HotVW mag and saw in a Bernie Bergmann ad a different way of cooling Type 1 engines.

Pictures here:

www.bergmannvw.com/engines_iv.htm

Kit:

www.bergmannvw.com/images/bergmann%20pics%202/Bergmannvw%20disc%202%20012a.jpg

Price looked like $850, which seems a little steep to me, but if it cools way better than the standard way of doing thing and you don't melt your engine any more, might be worth it.

Anyone have one of these?

Yes, Chris I do and I can end this discussion with one word...don't.
Bernie will tell you that it is a simple bolt on..it's not. Plus, the carb linkage has to be reversed and then will usually hit the firewall..and the list goes on.
But more importantly, unless you're running a very big, hot motor or a turbo, the 911 fan will overcool your motor. I've had to go to a smaller pulley to slow the fan down a bit.
You also have to go with an external cooler and fan, which adds to the overall cost.
Save your money...get a doghouse cooler and modify it for a Type 2 or 3 oil cooler. George runs this set-up with a 2110 putting out 170 hp and his doesn't overheat. Put your money to better use, such as polished and ported big value heads.
On the plus side it does look very nice in my engine bay. I did have a picture of it in files, but I deleted my file (by mistake) while trying to delete just one picture.
If I had it all to do over again, would I buy the 911 fan? NO!
Ron

Ron, the doghouse shroud takes a type 3 oil cooler as the stock setup; you have to modify it for a type 4 cooler (like mine). Gene Berg sells a type 4 shroud modification kit or you can send Berg your shroud and let them do it for you. I also run the smaller Porsche 356/912 alternator pulley in warm weather then go back to stock VW pulley in cold weather (only takes five minutes two switch over).

I've also heard that setup pulls quite a bit more hp to drive. If you are going turbo, there are some advantages, space/heat.

(Message Edited 1/13/2003 5:44:59 PM)

From what I can gather, the loss in hp is about 4 or 5 over the doghouse. I figure going to a power pulley has almost evened out the loss. I would like to turbo my motor... one day. Then, the 911 shroud would be useful.
Ron

see my pages of Jake's Thoughts- Axial cooling, for info about 911 shrouds in General..

You may never overheat your engine again, and at the same time you may never again reach operating temperature, and thats just as bad as being overheated.

Cure overheating problems at the source, not the symptom.

www.aircooledtechnology.com

(Message Edited 1/15/2003 9:39:44 PM)

There are a lot of large displacement, high performance VW type 1 engines on the street running the stock doghouse shroud with stock type 3 oil cooler and a 3.5 quart bolt on sump that do not have cooling problems. Proper internal engine clearances, a blueprinted oil pump, tuning (carburetor jetting, ignition timing, and exhaust size), and correctly fitted engine tin go a long way toward having an engine that runs with oil temperatures in the 185 to 205 degree F range with correspondingly low cylionder head temperatures.

The 911 shroud conversions can be made to work but you will need to experiment with 911 fans (there are several, they have different numbers of vanes) and perhaps crankshaft and alternator pulley diameters to get the correct cooling air flow.

Also, if you must buy a 911 kit, buy one that uses the original Porsche 911 alternator (I believe the Bernie Bergman kits do not).

(Message Edited 1/16/2003 2:24:05 PM)

The Bergman unit uses a Golf alternator.
Ron

If you want to get your engine to run cooler take a look at the original 356 Speedster. The rear engine decklid has not one but two more inlets for fresh air to enter. As it sits the VS replicas (and probley many others) have only two inlets for the carbs. The carbs get fed air but what about the fan? The original Speedster has one hole at the top, botttom and sides (the fiberglass rain gaurd underneath the engine grill). The side inlets are for the carbs. and the top is directly for the fan and the bottom is for engine compartment circulation so I suspect. Bassically these replicas (at least my VS) does not have enough ventilation for the fan to work. I'm in the process of modifing the engine lid for this needed ventilation. Yep, my car runs too hot too, but I'll get it right! I think this mod will do it.

J-P

Jean-Paul, a single grill rear deck lid on a Speedster replica should allow enough air flow for carburetors and cooling fan on all but the largest displacement high performance type 1 engines. Often overheating is due to several different problems - carbs jetted too lean, timing too retarded, bad seal causing hot air to be sucked back into the engine compartment, restrictive exhaust system, fan belt loose, etc.

Tuning is EVERYTHING with heat...I have seen 10HP and 40 degrees difference in just tuning on the same engine.

Ok Jake,

Your the expert here, you built and experianced VW's far far longer than I. Can I ask you, how does a person tune a carbed. car without a dyno? What instruments do you use. I've only been on the basic level of looking at sparkplugs, muffler tips and going for drives searching for flat spots. What do you do?

J-P

Jean-Paul, the only people I have seen that can really "read" spark plugs are the Champion representatives at Bonneville Speed Week. Repeated testing and performance measurement is one way to check jetting but it takes a lot of work and can give misleading results.
The only accurate method for jetting is to use broad-band air/fuel meter while driving at different loads.

If you have dual Webers email me carb info (size/type, venturi size, emulsion tube), general engine specs (cam, compression, ported heads or not, valve sizes, exhaust system) and I'll email you back a fairly accurate jetting combination. If you have dual Kadrons you need to contact "Mr. Kadron", A. J. Simms, and he can give you jetting info. You can find AJs email address on the CLF forum.