911 motor in speedster???

Will a 911 motor physically fit in the speedster? I have heard rumors of it being done, and I have an opportunity to get one, just wanted to check. Same goes for the breaks, or anything else for that matter.

Before I settled on a type 4, I seriously looked into acquiring a used 2.4 liter Porsche six. The core motor was a bit pricey, but not too bad. The labor to do a complete rebuild was not too bad. Then they told me the price of new pistons, rings, etc as might be typical in a rebuild. HOLLY COW! That was the end of my desire for a Porsche engine! Not to even mention the future maintainence costs. Nor the weight penality and front to rear vehicle weight distribution.
One thing about a Porsche six, it makes any built type I look like an absolute bargin, and makes a type IV look like a real viable alternative. Now if I was filthy rich, one of those new 3.6 liter engines cut down to four cylinders sounds like lots of fun. But then, so does a date with Heather Locklear . . .

Yes they do fit - with a lot of time & money. Unless the frame is specifically made for a 911 engine, there is a lot of fabricating to be done. New shock mounts (no torsion bar), new tranny mounts, new engine mounts, 901 or 915 tranny needed,etc. this list goes on. I think only InterMech. make a frame for the 911. I've modified my SB frame. It's taken a lot of time, frustration and beer to make mine fit, but it's finally in. I'm not too concerned about the weight distribution, because tranny and engine are actually mounted more forward than a VW engine. I'm sure it's not an idea weight distribution, but I doubt I'll every put this on the track. Right now I'll be happy just to get it on the road.

It can be done and many of us have them in our cars. I see that Jeff posted and I know that he at first was going to do it, then decided not to and then decided to do it again....all in all it sounds like it was a fair amount of work for him.

My IM was delivered with a tube frame set up to accept the 911/901 engine/trans. Not much of a big deal for the original owner I suppose but I'm still trying to sort some of the issues out such as cooling.

My car also had 180lbs of lead in the front...I can only suspect this was to try and offset the increased weight.

I love the 911 engine...the sounds with the headers and extractor or even the supertrapp are great. But, those 4 bangers are putting out as much if not more HP with less of a weight penalty and for less money.

If you're thinking of doing it just so your replica can be more of a "porsche" then I wouldn't bother....its still a replica. If you're doing it because you welcome the challenge and are up to it then go for it.

The reason I am considering it is that I am in the starting phases of building my own flared speedster, and I have the opportunity to buy a '74 911T (heavily rusted out) for almost nothing. If the engine and tranny are too far gone, and if I rebuild at a cost close to that of buying a new 1776 and tranny......I guess I just like the challenge and the fun of fabricating. I am also planning on using a 944 disc setup, again just for the "why not" factor, so if anybody has any info other than what is on performanceghia or ricola, I would appreciate it. Guess I am not a big purist, but it would make for a fun car:)

Fred, I've got a 1970 VW single cab with a 2.7 Porsche motor in it. There is good and bad in having a Porsche flat six transplanted into another vehicle. The good is the power and that great Porsche flat six sound. Mine puts out around 200 hp, but it's not that hard to get close to 200 hp out of a type 1 motor. The big difference is that my Porsche motor is only sightly modified, so it's not under a lot of stress and should see WELL over 100,000 miles (it already has 66,000 on it). One can only guess how long a 200 hp type 1 motor would stay together.
The bad part is the cost of parts, rebuilds and valve adjustments. Parts are very expensive ($240 CAN) for a fuel pump; to work with the high pressure CIS fuel injection). Spark plug wires....approx $150, and the list goes on. I have no problem adjusting the valves on my (now departed) 84 IM (type 1 powered), but I would not even think of trying to adjust the valves on my 2.7 motor. Estimated cost of a valve adjustment is around $300 to $400. Mind you, they only have to be adjusted every 10.000 miles. The 2.4 is not a great motor. Neither is the 2.7. If you're going to buy a Porsche motor go with the 3.0 or 3.2. These motors are near indestructable and can go 200,000 miles. You will seldom see a 2.4 or 2.7 go over 120,000 miles before rebuild time.
Ron

Ron, your post about your 2.7 pickup always gives me hope that my 2.7 will give me as much pleasure. If and when I actually get it fired up. It does look pretty in the engine bay!

Or you can build one of Dean Polopolous's four cylinder 911 engines; I'm getting the parts together for a normally aspirated dual ignition 2,500cc version of the 911-4.

It will weigh about the same as a stroker VW type 1 engine, have a 7,000 RPM redline, make about 235 BHP, and be stone reliable when properly serviced.

Only drawback is the co$t.

The 911 can fit in the CMC's. I have an excerpt from my manual that shows how to do it with very little adaptation. I went the cheaper route with a 13B rotary which used the same end mounts and got 165 hp much cheaper...only draw back is finding someone competent to work on it and reasonable.

Michael

Seems like the consensus is against a 911 in a speedster.

I beg to differ. I have one in my IM speedster (915 transmission, '84 carrera brakes and suspension).

This car is awesome. The sound and feel is amazing.

This is the car that appeared in Excellence last fall.

If anyone is seriously looking at doing one and wants to drive one. Contact me. You won't regret it.

Where does the line start for test drives? Sounds awesome just tad rich for my beer budget! Think of it "A Porsche Cobra mongoose"!

Problem with a 911-6 in a Speedster replica is additional rear weight bias, and the 915 transaxle is also heavier than its predecessor, the 901. Almost all performance BHP gain will be a trade-off with the weight gain, and properly servicing a 911-6 engine in a Speedster replica will require German gnomes.

A 200 BHP type 1 or 4 engine with 901 transaxle will be lighter, easier to service, and provide about the same overall performance up to about 100 mph.

The big difference with the Porsche motor is that it can run 220+ horsepower in basically stock form, and that means many, many trouble free miles. Try that in a 200 hp T1 motor. Having said that, the cost of putting a Porsche 911 motor/tranny in a speedster is way over the top, compared to a T1 or T4 motor. For most of us (the great unwashed) it would be WAY too expensive. Having a 911 in your speedster gives you some bragging rights (what ever that's worth) and the sound of a flat six is sweet music to a car nut's ears, but I'd go with a fuel injected, turboed T1 motor (CB would be a good choice) and a well built VW four speed tranny. Biggest bang for the bucks.
I had (I say had because I just sold it) a Porsche 2.7 motor and 901 gearbox in my 1970 VW single cab pickup and I was always worried something was going to go wrong with the motor. Sure, it went great and sounded great, but working on it was a bitch. And, try pricing parts for it...you won't believe what Porsche parts are worth. Try pricing fuel pumps, distributors and spark plug wires!
Ron

Alright, thanks for all your input. I priced out some parts, and even though the engine was a good deal, the parts made me crap my pants! During this time, I started considering another option, Subaru 2L Turbo with the 911 tranny. A 230hp stock motor can be found on ebay for around $800. Givin, there is the water cooled problem ( I prefer to call it a challenge), but if SAW can pull it off....Any input?

Its been done do a internet search for Ricola speedster and you should find his site. He did the liquid cooled conversion. His site gives details and if you email him he is very nice about giving information.

I have a 3.2 ltr 911 motor in my IM GS. Henry's GS flairs allow me 8"X17" wheels in back and 7"X17" in front. W/ bridgestone SO3's I have found the handeling to be superb!

Having had the oportunity to drive many 911's in the past I am quite impressed by Henry's cars W/ tube frame.

With a GLH exhaust it sounds nasty!!

It's fast.

This motor is making a reliable 250 HP, fuel injected and extremely reliable and the G-50 5-speed trans makes anything else feel sloppy.

LOTSA WORK!!! (Henry say's he won't do it again) lotsa money.

For me it is worth it, wouldn't trade this car for anything.

Don't know if it's worth it with out the purpose built frame. Never drove a 4-cyl car so I can;t speak to the difference

Marcos

Marcos, I looked at your car a few times while at Henry's. VERY nice. I even offered to do a redline test for free, but Henry just smiled and walked away. Then he let me do a redline test on Robert's car. Shows what he thinks of Robert's Rooster!
On a side note, I went through the Sumas border crossing on Wednesday and sitting in no-man's land, between the two border buildings, was a new powder blue IM, with dealer plates. Another one of Henry's babies making its way south?
Ron

Ron,

My car was at Henry's long enouch for you to have looked at it many times! :-)

Thanks for the compliment. It realy is all I expected it to be. I'm having a blast with it.

My Porsche mechanic at Protosport who set up the suspension for me was equaly impressed!

Marcos

PS. Having a 911 engine in your VW must be fun!?

The 911 motor in the single cab is really too much motor for the vehicle.
Ron

also note that when Henry builds a 911 engined replica the frame is different - heavier steel box sections, etc.

Absolutly!! The frame in my car was built for the 3.2 ltr motor and G-50 trans. That's what makes it so much fun.

2.7 RS-spec Engine from Dave Avery (spyderclub) $4000
Rebuilt 915 transmission from Oklahoma Foreign $2250
Various 84 Carrera suspension stuff $1200
Smile on my face ... Priceless.

I've driven many 911s and find the car to be as well balanced. I run pretty aggressive negative camber (2.5). May reduce the negative camber soon. No spins. The 2.7 is lighter than the later 3 and 3.2 motors.

The fuel cell is mounted in front and low between the front wheels, which offsets the weight when full. Nonetheless, I usually keep it with less than 5 or 6 gals of gas (don't know why but just do) and find the car is still well balanced. So did the Excellence reviewer.

My friends with 911s are very impressed with the package, performance and balance.

George - have you driven a 911 based car. Henry tells me that he wants to build a Speedster-6 with the 2.7 for himself - what does that tell you?