A different steering problem

I have one little oddity in my steering that I've never quite understood, and that a 4-wheel alignment has not helped. If I make a significant turn in either direction the steering wheel does not return all the way to centered, even though the car tracks straight. Example: I turn left onto a straight road and the straighten the car out. To continue in a straight line, the wheel is now cocked slightly to the left, even though there is no pull in that direction. If I then make a right turn, the wheel may wind up straight. Another right turn, and the wheel will be cocked to the right, even though the car tracks straight with my hands off the wheel.

Any ideas?

Lane,
My best advice is for you to quit the circus sideshow and get your car out of that "barrel of death". Leave it to the motorcycles.

Check the flex coupling at the steering box. It may be worn in some peculiar way. Also the free play in the steering box -- there are posts here about how to do that. Something in the lash up has a dead band too big. To me, it would signal a warning of future trouble, possibly catastrophe. Check for slop in everything: bushings, ball joints/king pins, tie rod ends, wheel bearings. If you took it to an alignment shop, they should have gone over all of this stuff. Is there any joint in the steering train that is clamped (vs. say splined or bolted)? The clamping could be snug but not tight, so hard inputs allow a little slippage in the turned direction, while in normal easy running there is no slipping. Just stabbing in the dark here. Anybody else??

Maybe even a bad steering adapter.

The splines might be worn out or gone altogether but the steering wheel nut is holding the whole assembly tightly together.

Hmmm... Everything is supposed to be brand new, but I'll give it a thorough going-over for any looseness. Certainly want it safe for the trip up to Carlisle.

The recentering of the steering wheel after a turn is impacted by caster. On a T1 this is usually not adjustable - and is thrown off if a beam with adjusters is installed. If you have the beam adjusters - do you have the add on caster shims (made of aluminum and available for under $10 from CIP1)? (This probably doesn't apply to dropped spindles).

"Caster is the angle to which the steering pivot axis is tilted forward or rearward from vertical, as viewed from the side. If the pivot axis is tilted backward (that is, the top pivot is positioned farther rearward than the bottom pivot), then the caster is positive; if it's tilted forward, then the caster is negative.

Positive caster tends to straighten the wheel when the vehicle is traveling forward, and thus is used to enhance straight-line stability."

The natural crown (higher center portion of road) of the road also affects centering of the wheel. I noticed that in NJ and PA the roads all had a much higher crown than in VA - which meant that when going straight down a road the steering wheel was slightly cocked to one side. VA roads seem to be flatter. Assume the crowning was to get water to run off before it froze.

I have found that run of the mill tire alignment shops only seem to concentrate on toe in/tow out (since on so many cars camber and caster are either not adjustable or hard to adjust). It takes a frame shop to really do a thorough alignment, IMHO.

Good answer ! ! !

Do the wheels simply not center themselves after a turn or do they return back to straight ahead but by then steering is no longer in the same position that it was before the turn in?

The latter. The car centers itself and tracks straight with no input from me (unless there's a significant crown), but the wheel may or may not be fully centered. It's never more than 10-15 degrees, but it is noticeable.

There seems to be little play in the steering, and it doesn't feel lose in any way, but this issue makes you have to hold the steering wheel off center sometimes, which can get annoying.

Ok, fresh opinion.

NOW it's beginning to sound like either the flange that attaches to the worm gear shaft coming out of the steering box or the similar flange attached to the bottom of the steering shaft has come loose and needs tightening or might even have lost the bolt entirely and is moving on the splines.

OR, the steering coupler has come loose and is moving about and beginning to come apart.

OR, again the splines on the steering wheel adapter are worn and slipping on the top of the shaft and only the tightened nut is keeping it from moving about even more.


Maybe?

Now I'm getting curious.

Now I'm getting scared. Good thing I'm taking tomorrow off to tinker on the car.

Lane,
My wife's '96 Audi Cabrio did this same thing for a while. One day she found herself completely without steering. The bolts holding the steering box had sheered of because a previous owner had failed to put the nuts back on or torque them tightly enough to stay on. Thankfully she was only going about 10 mph at the time. She had been doing 75 on the interstate just minutes before.

TeamEvil.......Good steering demands a tight nut behind the wheel....Pass me another beer ;>)

I too am a survivor of the "loose steering box clamp". In my case a got a rather dramatic instant 90 degree rotation in the steering wheel. But everything still workied after the rotation. An undercar inspection revealed nothing obvious (because, in retrospect, everything was cramped and seemed to be tight). I re-centered the wheel and all was well until it happened again! This time I sought professional help. They found the steering box had come adrift on the upper beam, slightly rotated and then bound up tight again. Apparantly the forces on the steering assembly then binds everything up and all seems to be tight when you inspect it.

So check the steering box alignment on the beam. A very slight shifting of parts could potentially be lethally dangerous, but all ended well for me.

I had the loose pitman arm bug a few years back. It made a world of difference after I torqued it up.

~WB

I had the loose pitman arm bug a few years back. It made a world of difference after I torqued it up.

~WB

Yup, that's exactly what I said ;-)

Lane, Don't let this linger. Seems to me something needs to be fixed before it lets loose entirely.

I had a similar indication some time back on a project car I had recently bought and also could not locate the small amount of free play until ...the column crush cage snapped.
The cause was the steering box clamp was reversed 180 on the axle beam and caused vertical pressure on the steering shaft. FYI, there are two notches on the clamp half that set on locating pin that is part of the upper axle beam tube. One positon is for the Beetle and the other (reversed)is for the Ghia.
Since the crush cage is the weakest link, that's where it failed. Lucky for me, it was while backing out of my garage.
Lane, best to jack the speedster up then have someone rotate the steering wheel left to the stop and then to the right stop carefully watching all related steering components to see where the slop may be.
Could be as simple as a loose steering shaft clamp, this has a 13mm bolt with a bent over piece that rests against the head of the bolt to secure it from working loose. ~Alan

Whew! I've been working under the back of the car all day, and am hot and sweaty. Now it's time for the front. It's up on jack stands and the wheels are off. So far nothing's the least bit loose. There's only about an inch of variation, and Carey says it may just be free play in the steering box, or something like that. Still, he seconded the recommendation to check everything over thoroughly. I'll keep y'all posted.

Lane.....Don't just "shake" those parts....Lay a wrench on each and every one......Good luck....

Just a quick suggestion. Have someone turn your steering wheel all the way to the right until it cannot move any farther while you are watching things under the front end. Then have them turn the wheel to the left. Check to see that the Pittman arm is hitting the stops right and left.

Then have them turn the wheel again until the arm is against the stops and tell them to try to turn it even more. Watch EVERYTHING in and around the steering box while this is being done. Have the do this a few times with some force. Place your hand on the box, on the flexible coupler, etc., feel for movement that you might not readily see.

Unless I am TOTALLY misunderstanding what you are saying, there is no way in the world that a little play in the box can explain away what you describe. Free play really should only be an inch of movement at the steering wheel rim before you feel it engage.

Although . . . you DID write that the wheel cocks to the left and/or the right after making a turn. How much "cock" to the wheel is there? An inch or so perhaps?

If YES, them I'm SO sorry for ringing the alarm. I misunderstood EVERYTHING that you were describing. If this is the case, live with it or adjust the box and call it done.

Lane:

Some good BBQ may entice me to drive on up there to help out.

I'm a little concerned that there may be something amiss that's easily overlooked that might hurt you. Then again, it may be that the steering box needs adjustment. I have a tool for the huge hex do-hickey adjuster on the front, plus the experience adjusting those boxes to get it right, but I think there is something mechanical outside of the box that's at fault - just don't yet know what it might be.

gn

I'm jiggy with the BBQ idea - especially if that's all it takes to get Five-Cent-Racing to bring the magic toolbox up here.

Progress report: Absolutely nothing is the least bit loose. I couldn't budge a single nut or bolt. The coupler has safety washers that prevent the nuts and bolts from loosening, and also prevent you from tightening them further. I worked the steering back and forth, checked everything, and found no signs of problems. I'm becoming convinced that it's free-play in the steering box, and not a safety issue.

TC, yeah, there's only about an inch of variance. I may have made a mountain out of a molehill. My local air-cooled guru kids me about expecting 21st century performance in a steering system designed in the first half of the 20th century.

I think proper steering box adjustment is a tough nut to crack and get right. Probably most troubles start here as a majority of cars start out with a used box from the donor. I've gotten mine pretty close to acceptable short of replacing with new. It can be done though. I've driven Barry Crone's Speedster and there is absolutely no slop in it at all. Someone got that one spot on. Wish mine was as tight as his.
Maybe something to talk about at Carlisle.
Anybody have an old box they could bring for a tech session?

~WB

Now THAT'S a fine idea. I haven't heard much talk about tech sessions, but that makes a lot of sense.

I'm bringing my repaired "old" box for the auction.....Which comes first, tech session or auction???

Lane,
Did you check the 4 bolts that hold the top of the steering box on? (13mm bolts)
The top also has the adjuster and lock nut. If the top comes loose the free play grows and grows.
I've seen this happen... makes for very sloppy steering.


Greg

Adjusting steering boxes is really pretty simple, but you need to make up a special tool to adjust the huge hex socket on the front. I just made an "L" shaped tool out of a piece of 1-1/4" wide flat stock to fit across the hex flats, and made it shallow so it'll fit between the fiberglass and the hex socket (there isn't much room there). I also bought an adjustable wrench designed for sink flanges (it's a plumber's tool) to get the huge lock nut loose.

The other thing that's overlooked is that, once you get the thing adjusted (or so you think, using the instructions in a Bentley or Haynes service book), take it out and drive it around a little and then return and do the whole thing over again. Go through this routine two or three times and it'll finally settle in and not vary any more. You should achieve a balance between the front hex adjuster, and the adjuster on top (they serve different purposes).

Doing it this way, you should be able to get 1/2" play at the steering wheel rim in the center (wheels aimed straight ahead), and only slightly more at the outer locks and the entire steering system should feel MUCH tighter and smoother.

gn

Gordon - Consider this an official BBQ bribe.

Greg - No, but I will ASAP.

Honestly, the steering isn't bad, but the lack of a consistent center is mildly annoying.

Lane Do you have spacers on the front hubs. I had a simular issue before I swapped out to the R&P and the widerbeam that did away with my spacers Is even better than my super now. t

The spacers caused under steer on my car. Dose this sound anything like what your dealing with?

I hope the solution to Lane's problem can be found cheaply and quickly. The cost of a BBQ dinner is well worth it, Gordon will fix it.

As far as tech sessions, I was planning on bringing my scales and alignment tools, if anyone wants to know how much their car really weighs and what their alignment specs are.

Barry - Nope. The front end is completely stock 4-bolt with disk brakes. Understeer is definitely not a problem.

Danny - YOU DA MAN!!!

Just an aside; I had a very thorough alignment done at Big "O" tires here in No. CA. It was on an Alfa spider with toe, camber and caster. FWIW..

Progress report: After working on the oil leak issue. Gordon and I looked into the steering. We found one wheel bearing very slightly loose, but that was it. The steering coupler that Beck uses has a very small amount of natural play in it, but nothing that need attention. After poking around, we agreed that what I am seeing is nothing to be concerned about. Sorry for the false alarm, and thanks for the tips.

WHEW ! ! !

Way better to be overly safe and sound the alarm that be sorry that you didn't.

Good for you.

I know your speedster will bring you to Carlisle, even without the "tight" nut behind the wheel......

I too am a survivor of the "loose steering box clamp". In my case a got a rather dramatic instant 90 degree rotation in the steering wheel.

New car dealers

???

I have not yeat realy driven my D very much sence I added the rack and wider beam I got the new taller tires waiting for the rear new rear rims. That has to be on before I have it lined up to perfection. to finalize the ride height back level.

But I am getting plenty eager to break that puppy out!

Im glad your problens were simple fixess..