A few nice 2L engines 2276 and 2332 turnkeys

Ah man, I wish!
Would love to have a faster tub...

Kevin is located in Sandy Eggo Christian, wouldn't take much to drop in that 2332...

 

.

Some data, like who built them and maybe "How hot are they, performance wise..."

 

New cases? Head type? Carb type?

Unless he takes my 1776 as a core for $2k, I'm not gonna drop $4,400 on a VW motor anytime soon

That would definitely be cool, but its a slippery slope, Christian!

 2276cc 

8 TO 1 COMP.

AS41 ALUM CASE w/ CHROMOLY STUDS

82mm COUNTER WEIGHTED & FORGED 8 DOWEL CRANK

12 LBS FLYWHEEL

STAGE 2 KENNEDY PRESURE PLATE

"H" BEAM RODS w/ARP BOLTS

94mm FORGED PISTONS

TOTAL SEAL RINGS

FK87 CAM

RACE LIFTERS AND CHROMOLY PUSH RODS

SOLID ROCKERS W/ SWIVLE FEET ADJUSTERS

42X35.5 VALVES WITH DUAL SPRINGS AND CHROMOLY RETAINERS

ALUM VALVE COVERS 
44mm DUAL WEBERS

BOSCH ALT

FULL FLOW CASE AND COOLING

CHROME TINS

SAND SEAL PULLEY

 

 

 

2332cc

9 TO 1 COMP

HIGH ROOF ALUM CASE w/CHROMOLY STUDS

84mm COUNTER WEIGHTED & FORGED 8 DOWEL CRANK

12 LBS FLYWHEEL

STAGE 3 KENNEDY PRESSURE PLATE

"H" BEAM RODS w/ARP BOLTS

94mm FORGED PISTONS

TOTAL SEAL RINGS

FK87 CAM

RACE LIFTERS AND CHROMOLY PUSH RODS

SOLID ROCKERS W/ SWIVLE FEET ADJUSTERS

44X37 VALVES WITH DUAL SPRINGS AND CHROMOLY RETAINERS

ALUM VALVE COVERS 
44mm DUAL WEBERS

BOSCH ALT

FULL FLOW CASE AND COOLING

CHROME TINS

SAND SEAL PULLEY

 

These two engines are $3600 each

I built them both and have been building for over 20 years. These both are realy nice engines.

Christian, 3600 has to be chump change to you, besides, you could sell your 1776

to some bug owner looking to upgrade...

2332, might have to wipe the seat off when she gets out...if you get my drift....

(I'm so bad, I can't believe myself sometime)

 

If those are quality engines - and I have no reason to believe they are not - then $3600. is a damned good price.  I don't know if you could duplicate either engine for that price.

 

I assume it would cost more than that to rebuild a stock (smaller displacement) engine.

It comes down to Kevin standing behind what he builds....

I'll stand behind these for another 12,000 miles or 12 months as long as the new owner does not run it out of oil, over rev it, or over heat them. Otherwise they are well built and I have never had a engine failure due to building, because if I can't do it right the first time why even waist my time building it at all. It's simply the way I think....

SMOKING DEAL

 

Kevin, heck of a a good price. 

Way, way, WAY cheaper than my 2276.

Ugh.. you guys are killing me.

 

How much would my 1776 go for these days?

I assume they haven't been dyno'd but in your experience, what HP numbers have these engines put out to the rear wheel in the past? Or what can one "expect" with these builds?

Hey, Ron

Normally a 2276 or 2332 will put out 150-160hp at the crank. That is double what the 1776 will normally put out. I built these motors for torque. Horse power is what you buy, and torque is what you get... OLD JOKE..... Torque is what gets your car going from a stop or up a hill. HP is what happens at high rpm's. For example a diesel engine has a ton of torque, in contrast an F1 car has a ton of HP and ver little torque. These engines are a good combination of both, good torque to get moving and good flow up top for passing on the freeway....

My 2332 is rated at 165 HP, and moves my car along quite nicely, thank you.

I was told my 2332 was rated at 170 HP, but really 10 either way is fine with me...

BEING YOUR A 2 AND A HALF AT BEST I GUESS NOT

Go away Gay boy....

yea you can pull upto 200hp out of these engines, but the higher the number you try and pull out of them the more unrealiable they become. I like to build my engines a bit more reliable and with a focus on a long service life....

Coolryde - At what rpm's does each motor reach peak power?

Peak HP is around 6500 normally. I have not dyno'd these engine. Both are bad ass and can handle anything our little speedsters can throw at them......

Then why are they so over-cammed?

Over cammed? You do understand intake combinations right? It is not just the cam, it is also heads, valves, intakes, and carbs, not to mention conbustion chambers. There is a lot that goes into how an engine runs, where it make power and how it performans thru the rpm range. This is why engine builders find combinations that work for diffrent apps. If it was as simple as putting a cam in then every engine would perform exactly the same as the next. Hell how would F1, Nascar, and most every other type of racing out there have certain cars that are always out front......

Yes I do have a basic understanding of intake combinations. Both the motor combinations you listed above have the capability to run to 6500 or 7000 rpm (at the most) and the FK87 that is in them will develop power to 8000rpm (if every thing else is right). Please explain to me how using a cam that develops power 1000-15000 rpm higher than the rest of the motor is beneficial? Why would you not use a cam with 10-15' less dur @ 0.050"? It's my understanding (from what I've seen of playing with these motors for some 35 years) that you'd get the same peak hp and a smoother, more useable bottom end/midrange (not that a motor that big needs more bottom end!) when the cam duration is matched to the rest of the components. I've never heard of intentionally using more duration than necessary to build power; please explain how this is beneficial. I'm not trying to be a dick here; I'm hoping to learn something today.  Al

Al, now you've got me wondering about my 2276 combo.  I'm also running a FK8 cam, with smaller ported 40 x 35 heads. 

Horsepower topped out at 5200 rpm (123 Wheel hp-approximately 145 crank hp) and the torque started to drop off after 4800 rpm.  My torque stays fairly level (at 130 ft/lbs)  from 3200 to 4800 rpm.  Then it drops off to about 110 at 6500 rpm.

My engine has a lot of torque down low, but horsepower wise it's done by 6000 rpm.  I really like the torque, but more top-end power would be nice too.  I guess I can't have both....or can I?

Ron- The FK87 that Kevin is using has 320' advertised duration (276' @ 0.050"), .561" valve lift with 1.4 rockers and has a powerband of 4000 or 4500 to 8000 rpm if everything is right. It is generally thought of as a road/drag race cam. Most guys using a cam like that on the street are driving Friday night/Sunday afternoon fairweather cars, running 10-11:1 compression and are looking for 1/4 mile performance- low 12's to high 11's. Even in a big motor it would be a pretty extreme street car, ok for cruising down to impress the crowd hanging out at the A&W, but not something you could just jump in and bomb up to Kamloops. The spring pressure needed to keep valves from floating at those revs generally make for a higher maintenance motor and the reason I don't call it a "driver".

 

The FK8 in your motor has 298' duration (258' @ 0.050"), about .530" valve lift (with 1.4's), a powerband of 3000 or 3500-6500, and in a bigger motor like yours can be a very nice fairweather "driver", which is what we all are looking for in these cars. With what you've desribed, it sounds like the port work in the heads is small, not having enough intake port volume to produce power above 5200 rpm. There are 2 solutions here; one is to put a cam with less duration in it to match the existing headflow #'s, and the 2nd is to have someone open up the heads to take advantage of what the cam is capable of (2nd solution will be WAAAY MORE FUN!). Darren Kre.....chuk (I can never remember how to spell his name!) lives in the Vancouver area and is a highly respected VW head porter. Not only is he good with a grinder, he also knows the science and the math behind it (unlike some of the guys in this business who will guess from experience, " yup, that's a big enough hole for it!), so he could tell us if your heads can be opened up enough to feed the beast. Several guys he's done work for are running low 12/high 11 second cars around town, so he knows his stuff. If you're interested I could get hold of him so he could look at your heads and give his opinion. I'll help you take the heads off it you like. Let me know.  Al

Al
It looks like you've done some home work and I'm not offended by your statements or think your being a dick. However the combo I'm using is not one your going to find in books also it is one that I stumbled across when building an engine for one of my busses that I wanted to run 48idas on the street. I'm running the cams with 1 to 1 rockers and moderate intake openings. This makes for more air speed allowing a better low and mid range. If someone wants to run 1.4 to 1 rockers and larger venturies  they change the engine up to a drag style engine with more top end without rebuilding.  It one of many combos I've found that works great. If your ever around and want a ride in one of the cars I've built engines for let me know. I think you'll be surprized.

Ron your engine is held back by flow. It makes great torque I'm sure but at a certain point it can not breath an more. You may be able to get more out of it by going with larger carbs. Let me look over your specs more.

Al, my heads were ported by a local VW drag racer years ago.  The shop owner/mechanic who has taken my engine apart has worked on Porsche and VW air cooled engines for many years, and is very knowledgeable.  He is presently doing some porting on the heads to get them to flow better.  I may end up taking them to Darren to see if they can be improved even more.

Kevin, I have CB's EFI kit, not carbs.  I'm not even sure what size injectors I have. 

You could be simply running out of fuel of spark if the EFI is not set up propperly. WHich CB kit is it?

It's their newer version, with an ECU.

Ron- You're on the right track; 40x35 small roundports definitely aren't enough for a 2276 to spin to 6500 with power. I think you'll find that once you get the motor run to it's potential you won't have lost that much bottom end either . Later I will email Darren to ask him if 40x35 heads can flow enough to make power in a 2276 at 6500rpm...I'll let you know when I hear back from him.  Al

 

Kevin- I have heard of guys using 1.4 designed cams with lesser rocker ratio and I've always wanted to graph it out to see what it does, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll take your word that they run like beasts; if I ever get down to the southern California area I will be sure to drop in on you. I've read about your suspension systems and would love to see your shop (and maybe steal a ride!). Al

Ron O, I know this sounds silly but I did it one time and I felt dumb but hey it happens. Have you had someone step on tht throttle and check in the back at the same time to make sure your getting full throttle.  I agree the ports seam small but it should not be shutting the engine down like your describing.....

 

ALB,

Your more then welcome to swing by anytime, and I'll make sure you at least get a ride in my Speedster. It's only got a 2170cc Injected turbo.....  with Mendeola suspension and a 5 speed porsche 915 gear box, oh and four wheel disc brakes to slow back down, but who the hell wants to do that.......

I have one of the 2332 cc left.......

Question:
What's the difference between the center mount alternator/fan and the one just off to the side (like in your pics).  The most common engines I have seen look like yours but every once in a while I see the belt and pulley set up right in the middle like the one below (I need schooling oh wise one)

 

LOCATION...LOCATION...LOCATION

Indetrucks- The 2 aluminum aftermarket fan shrouds pictured do not have the directional vanes to distribute the air equally over all 4 cylinders (some will run hotter than others) and if you set up head temp sensors on all 4 cylinders you will find that the readings from side to side will be different as well. The stock doghouse shroud is a very good piece of engineering and only Jake has been able to improve on it with his "down the middle" fiberglass shroud. And while that's a very nice (and I believe expensive) piece, I don't believe it can be used with a thermostat and directional flaps (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong). That said, lots of people have used them and they do work. Would I sink 5-$10,000 into a motor and use 1 of the aluminum units? No, but that's just me...Al

Ok so to be sure I understand correctly.

 

The difference between the center mount and off to the side mount is preference and cooling?

The preferred location is just off to the side due to it cooling the heads more evenly and better?

 

So why would anyone use the center mount (as pictured with the blue engine?)

Esthetic appeal?  Weight distribution being more centered?

The photo of the Samba engine shows a shroud that one finds on a sand rail or dune buggy - where the engine is just hanging out in the open. The observation is that it will stay cool because of that. Generally they lack the "doghouse" on the back of the shroud, which covers the stock oil cooler.

 

The engine in the center of Kevin's photo is known as a 36hp or "doghouse" shroud. It is what you typically see on Vintage and JPS builds, as well as Beck or Intermeccanica if optioned that way. Some of these "aftermarket" shrouds do contain the fan vanes which direct air over the individual cylinders. Most have the doghouse on the back of the shroud to cover the stock oil cooler.

 

There is no photo of the OEM stock doghouse shroud which is found on '68 and newer bugs. It is, by far, the best shroud to have but far from the most attractive. It moves the air with great efficiency over all the cylinders equally.