A SOUND argument in favor of Subaru powered speedsters...

Aside from the advantages in cab heating, engine power, relatively low expense, reliability, and ease of adaptation they can sound like full bore deep throated air cooled MONSTER cars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?utm_campaign=Weekly+Email&utm_content=WR74+2&feature=player_embedded&utm_source=email-228&utm_medium=email&v=oWgg9T6Hy8w

Great cars. My cousin in Birmingham owns 3 WRXs and I have ridden in a couple of them.

Most folks know that the Subary engine is a boxer engine---but watercooled. Lots of advantages over air cooled---main one being no Japanese parts!

I love my Type IV but would consider Subaru power next time because by then all aircooled parts will be from communist China.

Why not put in a V8

The "Visible Engine" might fit, KW, still have yours?

I still have mine... I've seen some Subi engines fit into speedsters ... It is a nice powerplant, though I like to stick with the air cooled for authenticity.

A friend just completed a subaru engine install in his vw pan kit car. He is very happy with it, and it dyno'd at 185hp at the rear wheels. Obviously,, it is more complex to sort out then an air-cooled,, but in his case, has been worth the effort. Alan

I've driven a buddy's WRX a bunch of times. It's an amazing car !! A perfect collection/selection of parts that come together and make a whole MUCH greater than what you might expect.

Authenticity can kiss my ass. It's a replica.

I want to to be ridiculously fast AND reliable!

angela (want it all - want it now).

I need cross country reliability and a few extra ponies wouldn't hurt either. If my teardown shows a bad case and the rest of the 1915 bits can be used to rebuild my buddy's engine for his dune buggy, I'll seriously consider going straight to the Soob.

What T.C. Said---the WRX is amazing.

I could have put ANY engine out there into my VS including a Suby or even a 6-cyl 911, but I chose the Type IV for the same reason as was stated earlier---authenticity. Plus perfect reliability and great performance. But when the chinese parts take over the Type IV world like they have done with Type Is I won't consider a Chinese engine anything resembling authentic---or reliability for that matter.

I'll put maybe 100,000 miles on my Type IV then see about a Suby. By then German parts will be non-available so I won't mind the switch.

Your mileage may vary.

I can understand the grumpy attitude towards certain segments of the Chinese market, which produce lots of crap. I live in Fiji, and almost all of the Chinese imports are junk.

However, I'm old enough to remember when Japanese imports were all crap. All of us old dinosaurs need to face the fact that America isn't manufacturing much these days. China/Korea/India/Taiwan/Singapore, etc. have replaced Buffalo/Cleveland/Philly, etc. We don't have to like it, but we had better get used to it. The times, they are a'changin'. I bought a rockbreaker (hydraulic hammer)from China for my excavator that's actually good quality, and comparatively inexpensive.

Would you like rice with that Big Mac, sir?

Subie power is the way to go.

David--Jake Raby wants to speak with you about a Suby conversion for your car. You could have a reliable, fast trans-continental beast!

Call him up!

Subaru? Thats sounds like a good ideer.

Been there, done that. Got my endorsement.

John, your a pioneer.

And he has the hat to prove it.

While I like the subbie engine - I don't like the mid engine mounting which intruded into the interior. Likewise, when mounted in rear, I don't like the retained use of a T1 trans. Give me a rear mount Subbie with 6 speed or a paddle shifted auto and I'll sign up. All wheel drive and disc brakes would be nice too!

Greg I'll let you know the outcome of my rear engined Subie with Porsche 915 5spd.

Like John, my Subi is mid-engined, but I opted for the auto transmission and cruise control. The lost of the area behind the seats is made up for a useable trunk under what was the engine cover. Two soft duffle style bags accommodate two weeks worth of clothes for my wife and I, my laptop, rain parkas, a couple of umbrellas and my ditty bag. Also the over wheel weight distribution gives the car solid road manners and no ass slide. But each person have their own ideas of what they like so I'm just saying...

Nolan and Hoss...could you each give a short rundown on which Soob engines are in your cars ? Thanks...

David: I have a 2005 Impreza 2.5 STI engine. The donor car had less than 5000 miles on it when it was rear ended. It has the Subaru ECU and mated wiring harness which gives the engine a learning curve of the driver's habits. The cruise control is electronic and A/C cold or if needed hot from being water cooled. Low end torgue matches my wife's VW VR6 and the auto shifting makes for smooth sailing. The Subi engine is virtually bullet proof and I've heard that it was initially patterned after the VW water boxer engine. John's car is different since has standard transmission and therefore lighter in over all weight. I'll leave it to John to describe his car in more detail. A test drive in his car before I contracted mine was a determining factor in my purchase. I had built 2 VW kit cars in the past, a CMC Gazelle and a Perry 550 Spyder. The VW engine in the Gazelle backfired while starting and caught fire destroying the engine and the rear end of the Gazelle. After visiting SAS and riding in John's car I sold the Spyder and opted for a water tight Cabriolet since we have so much rain in South Florida. Now that I'm intrenched in my 70's my knees and back scream in agony trying to keep twin Webbers sync'd, drum brakes adjusted and other necessary tweeks. Now I enjoy driving a 356 that has only needed oil changes (Jiffy Lube) over 15,000 miles of driving. Mind you, I'm not advocating a Subaru engine for everyone, if I were younger and more flexible I would still use the VW engine (type IV) for ease of maintenance and overhaul. The Subaru engine is definitely NOT for the gearhead that likes to tinker, unless of course your as knowledgeable and adept as Angela. I suppose with an ODB unit, volt/ohm meter, and good wiring diagrams one could do their own tuning. Me, I'll just drop in the nearest Pep Boy, Subaru dealer, or local auto shop and get that done.

What does a Subi 356 weigh? I have to imagine it's a pretty tail heavy car at that point, though modern tech is definately a plus!

Not sure of the weight difference but heard it was minimal. Weight distribution will be determined by location of radiator and associated plumbing. Rear mounting won't really affect handling, however, the shortened distance for exhaust pipes versus a mid-engine mount may require a quieter muffler and may not accommodate a catalytic converter required in some states. Emission standards vary state by state and how the vehicle can be registered. VW panned cars can be registered as the donor VW but tube framed cars are most likely registered under the engine specs. Here in Florida, emission testing is not done and replica cars are registered by the documentation provided by the kit company or by the professional builder/manufacturer. Since my car is a tube framed car built by a licensed manufacturer it is accepted as a replica of the car it resembles and the year it was produced. Thus, my Florida title has it as a 2008 Porsche-R. The R standing for replica.

The subie boards say 250-265 lbs including accessories. I can find out for sure.

Believe me, if you added 50 lbs back there, you will notice a big difference, at least on the race track or auto x. Will will eat into braking and cornering particularly under power from Apex out...

Marty your numbers sound correct. Per FedEx my engine on the palette with the wiring harness and ECU where 280lbs.

Nolan hit the high points and our cars are very similar overall since they are earlier builds. The latest ones coming out have high tech features we can only dream of.

A few comments are in order. My car was the first built and uses a 2.2L engine from a '98 Impreza that had something in excess of 20K miles on it. In many ways, it was like a beta test model in that many of the early-off problems I experienced, which were corrected, have found their way into all subsequent cars built. It is a superior highway cruiser and averages over 35 mpg on a long trip on 87 octane fuel.

It was weighed on Danny P's scales a couple of years ago and it came out to 2335# road ready and without driver or passenger. It has a stout chassis that has already been field tested with a major rear-ender with former board member Steve O'Brien acting as crash dummy. He survived.

As far as handling goes, the extra weight is not as much of a factor as one might think due to the mid engine configuration. It always stays firmly planted in the twisties and inspires confidence. To wit, read Gordon Nichols assessment on the SAS website. Also, my friend and Porsche buddy who has been an instructor for SCCA racing drove it hard and pronounced the handling as excellent. For my part, I don't care that much since I am a cruiser, not a racer.

All in all, a pleasant, enjoyable car.

Extra engine weight on a mid-engined car is a moot point. Extra out the back is a different story. You're adding something like 40 or 50 pounds more than a TIV (T1 is significantly lighter).

However...

Remember that you are also adding weight at the other end of the vehicle with a radiator and coolant. Probably picking up at least 50% of that amount (20 to 25 lbs) back up front. Think of a car as a see-saw. Weight on one end unbalances it, adding weight to the other end moves it into balance. Now with mid-engine, you are adding weight at the middle - the fulcrum point - which means it has almost zero effect. So given that you're adding let's say 50 at the rear and 25 at the front - the difference is not as much as you might think.

Next, remember that the Subaru engine is usually weighed with cats and a/c. Can't say I've ever seen a TIV weighted with cats and a/c.

They are much closer than you think. There are reasons to choose or not choose Subaru (though obviously I'm in the Subaru fan club), but the weight difference alone should not be your deciding factor.

angela

I drove the Hoss car at Carlise this year and it was just great. 7 year old beta version still very sound car. Plus, 35 mpg kicks some green butt. Henry has that radiator way up front which I think helps even more with that see saw effect. Plus my build underway uses the ultra or 911 type larger frame which moves engine weight forward. Henry is excited to see the performance difference compared to his 2.0 Audi builds. Time will tell. Also, how cool is it that engines choices keeps the Hobby open to a bigger audience.

Well, I'm no stranger to racing, and setting up cars... Including factory built race cars, and until that engine is forward of the rear axle centerline, it's going to be a rear engine ride. I'm not knocking the Subi, but light and nimble still make me pay attention to the details.

????

Hoss's car is using a mid-engined setup. The transaxle is at at the rear, making the engine ahead of the centerline.

Even on a rear-engined car, the placement of the mass of the drivetrain in relation to the rear axle is telling. If yo uare able to move the mass toward the front of the car (which means angling driveshafts or going to a different transaxle), then you indeed change the distribution.

It's all leverage and a couple of inches make a surprising difference when it's at the "end" of the teeter-totter.

angela

K W - Just in case you're not familiar with SAS cars like Hoss', they're all mid-engined with a trunk where the engine would be in a real 356. You can't really tell from the outside, but if you look inside you'll see a big hump where the (rudimentary) 356 back seats would normally be.

I stand corrected, perhaps I should read up!!

Under the SAS "big hump" .......

Or this.

John, the next time you need to replace that battery, consider the small gel-cell type like I have. It's small enough and light enough to put anywhere, and it doesn't produce noxious fumes like a lead acid battery. You can also mount in in almost any orientation except inverted (I think).

Small battery. I had a similar one, different brand, in my fake Ferrari and it would crank a Northstar V8.

Mike---I just put that PC 680 into a BMW motorcycle.