Adding roll up windows project

Is there a business opportunity for IM or someone else to sell a conversion kit that includes the doors and all the fixins'? 

 

I know that the front seal to the windshield frame would be an issue as well as perhaps door fit, but maybe there is something there for the person who wants to upgrade and is willing to pour some money into their car, including paint.

 

Changes the landscape a little........

I would say that there's an opportunity here. However, I would say due to the differences with the speeders, that it would make sense to have a kit. How I'm doing it, there's no painting involved except for the pillar extension, and that could be possibly avoided in a kit if it came in flat black which could be used as-is or painted.

 

If that was the case, a person just would need to be comfortable with cutting into the top of the door for the window. I'm avoiding to repaint the door or touch it up with the rubber in which will go into the cut areas.

 

The pillar extension I made fits onto windshield and stays in place by using the screw holes already in the windshield.

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Good for you Loren!

The blue "window post" part would even be helpful in the fitment of really effective side windows.  I have tried a number of different things trying to get my otherwise very good side windows to close and seal properly at the windshield frame, and nothing has worked as well as I want.  I have become convinced that something like what you show will be necessary.  I just haven't figured out how to make it yet.

Thanks, I'll post as I go. I was thinking if this worked, I would post my plan with template to build the blue post.

... and parts list. 

 

 

The Holy Grail of Speedster windows...and only Monty Python has an answer.

Loren,

Roll-up windows that seal attractively at the windshield post will put you into the history books...or at least win the admiration of us who can then venture out in pukey weather!

 

Oliver wanted to add roll-ups to his magnificent speedster but despite his skills they never materialized. I've thought of the possibility of cannibalizing the winding mechanism and glass from a Karmann Ghia and butting the shaved off top of Ghia doors to cut down speedster doors but there's a stress factor to consider in mating metal to fiberglass.

 

Looking forward to your progress.    

The problem is that on most popular replicas (Vintage, et al), there is a good sold inch or more from the door split to the windshield post. Assuming you could get the glass right to the edge of the door top (a big assumption), there's still this uncomfortable space that needs filled with.... something.

 

John Steel did one back in '02 with little winglets on the windshield frame. Chesil in England does the same thing. They both look a bit... "unusual", to my eye.

 

A big part of the appeal of the Speedster (for a lot of people) is the windshield line. I'm not sure thickening the post in any way is a good thing aesthetically. Take a look at some pictures of Chesils with roll-up windows, and I think you may agree.

 

 

After having made a set of good polycarbonate side-curtains for my JPS, I think this is what you really want, because it can overhang the front edge of the door and take the "glass" all the way to the windshield. The front seal can be similar to the seal at the door top- a piece of sweep material that bridges the irregularities in the frame. This could be coupled with a crush seal (edging material with a bulb-type seal) from McMaster/Carr to really seal up nicely.

 

Everybody talks about the front seal. That's not where the bulk of the air and water come in with side curtains (or windows). You really need to look at the "pocket" the top creates at the rear of the door opening (right above your shoulder). There's a pocket there that catches air, and scoops it right onto your neck. I came up with a fix back in '04, which I posted here. Gordon made the mods, and it worked out well.

Right. It's the rear gap that I think is the most challenging. I drew these up quickly.

I had a few ideas to cover the front gap, but nothing solid about the rear gap.

 

The challenge are the gaps.

 

 

 

The pictures you show have a similar concept to mine, except that the pillar guides are on the door, where I have them as an extension of the windshield. I didn't go that route as I didn't like the look of it on the door, it seemed a static extension of the windshield was better as it was stationary. Now when you open the door, I fear it's going to be "flimsy" where having it on the door would be better.

Which is why I thought, if you were to have something on the door, why not a vent instead. This is more aesthetically pleasing, to me, and fills the front gap.

 

 Here's the pillar extension.

 

 

 

 

Here's the vent - which is attached to the door.

 

 

The rear gap remains to remain a challenge. One challenge at a time I guess. I was thinking that maybe some wizard trickery with the glass, where it maybe is shaped in such a way that when completely up, it overhangs past the rear just enough to fill the area snug, ... Maybe the combination of glass shape and guide rails, ...

 

 

To easily resolve the forward gap issue the windshield needs to be moved 1.00 rearward.

I stole an idea from Lane & did my own mod.  I previously had added Tenax fasteners to hold down my top behind the doors.  This worked great until solid plexiglas sidecurtains were attempted.  I stole Lane's idea for a tab on the outside of the side curtain that overlaps the top & reversed the direction on the fastener so that one snaps it closed from the inside.  This is a highway only application.  Another problem with any convertible is that the top lifts @ speed which can create gaps @ the top.  Carey added leather straps on the top that wrap around and snap to the side top supports.  This helps a lot to.

My rear gap (sounds like a medical issue) solution has served me well.  The mating of a flat surface of the side window to the compound curve of the windshield frame, and the jog where the frame mount (post thingie) meets the frame itself, is where I am still having problems.  I've tried bulb seals, over laps, combinations of both, and they all still have issues.  Among them is getting the seal to seat properly when you close the door.  A real PITA because I drive mine in all weather, even what passes for winter here.  The worst is when you're on the road (usually to Carlisle) and get caught in a rainstorm.

This is what Intermeccanica does. It's aesthetically pleasing, and quite effective.

 

I fixed the rear gap on my JPS in 2003/2004. If you fasten a "tag" strap about an inch up on the inside seal of the window pocket at the rear of the door, and use that strap to pull the top downward, and secure it to the body (inside) by means of a snap or similar fastener-- it'll have the net effect of reducing that pocket and moving the sealing surface of the top outward.

 

I also fixed the tendency for the top to want to blow outward and lose the seal along the top, by stitching the door pocket half shut along the length of the pocket.

 

I had a hardtop for the car at the time. The soft top with the modifications sealed much better. 

x3. I wish you well! The vent window is a good idea.

It looks like intermeccanica has a pretty solid top vs VS two bar setup.

Yeah, I saw their Cabriolet top -- Super nice! I might inquire.

Id be curious to see how much they are as well.  Does intermeccanica use the same body mold?

Acapp glass up in New York can make you some nice tempered glass with fine bead work edges   Make the glass as tall as the door cavity will allow it will have more edge in the tracks and be less floppy.. I used GM type Softseal.com supplier on my D and its a perfect seal on the glass   I wish the offered  a good top to frame seal I still get a few drips in a hard rain up in the middle.

 

I think your vent window idea has some merit.  Keep up posted with what you decide to do.

 

FWIW

The person from whom I bought my Speedster has a business of making specialty windows for custom cars. Forgot his name, but he is in Madill, Ok. Shouldn't be hard to google. Ha makes some really interesting cars, as well.

Why not just deal with the lower part of the windshield post using something like a gusset?  You could then use a L shaped piece of alum and a bubble gasket like IM uses.  IMHO this would look more elegant than a solid wide piece going from top to bottom of the window.  Look at the attached and I was thinking just a small gusset to where the blue line is, perhaps a slight curve in it even.

 

 

Now you are looking at a major job.  The windshield frame for the Cab is what makes top weather tight.  It takes a different windshield and a new top - plus the top frame.  This is like marrying RoseAnne when you wanted Twiggy.  Oldyeler essentially did this with OEM parts on his car.  Those parts are hard to find now and very costly - a top frame with rust goes for $1200.  Check the top frame that Mangosmoothy build for his speedster if you are looking for a folding top.

 

How about camouflaging the pilliar extension with the clear lexan vent wings you see on cars like the MG TD (cut down a bit in size)? 

 

Greg,

Love that drawing! Send me a link or copy?

Sorry, I was on vacation; Disneyland.

 

I like the gusset idea, too. I'm not sure how to attach the rubber gasket on the pillar seamlessly -- Possibly a half tube would work. I'm going to try a couple of thing.

 

Two more thoughts.

 

I saw a mirror on the door of a sports car, and thought, hmmm, ... That wouldn't look bad if you open the door and it would add some stability to the window when the door was open.

 

 

 

The other thought would be to combine the Gusset and the Vent. The Gusset fills the gap and the vent adds stability to the window.

IM uses a piece of angle alum painted black to attach the bubble gasket to the side posts on their Convertible D reps.  Alum is about 1/2" x 1/2" screwed or riveted, countersunk, onto the side posts.  The bubble gasket is then the type that has a channel to fit over the alum piece that is sticking out to hold it in place.

What window regulators are used for this?

I used 84 Suzuki side kicks and resplined the crank arbors to fit 66 VW. But there are other option like the earlier Jeep Cherokee  with flat windows.

 

   I also like the gusset Idea  LESS IS MORE!!!  for te rear area  just add a  upholstered flap that you can have sewn on

yes.

 

this is what IM and other maker do, so it seems to be proven.  there are readily available ghia convertable seals for the windshield pillar/frame that cold be adapted.