Additional oil sump

I have a 2110 with a CB low profile sump. I chose the low profile because of ground clearance concerns. DO use a JAY CEE sump cover with the o-ring seals. You'll be happy with no leaks. Also, I don't use that stock sump screen anymore. One less gasket...one less leak. The full flow filter does that part...........Bruce

I added the CB Performance 1.5 Quart Thin Line Sump and it works well. It doesn't hang too low so it doesn't drag on anything. It should snag anything either while driving down the road. Between the extra 1.5 quarts of oil from the sump, the extra oil in your cooler, and the little bit of extra in your remote filter you should have almost 5 quarts or more of oil.

I also added the JayCee Mag-X Plate with Drain Plug.

I left my stock screen in the sump with an extended pick up tube to stop any large pieces of metal from getting to the oil pump since the filter is after the oil pump. One extra bit of protection.

1 1/2 quarts is enough for most street cars; an engine has to spend a lot of time  at 6,000 rpm and above to need more. 3 1/2 or 4 quarts just means longer warm up times. If your car is lowered, then a low profile unit is worth looking for. The ones that don't have a drain plug (you have to remove the plate to drain) are a pain in the #ass; either find one with a plug or machine the plate for one. Installation is pretty simple. Leave the gasket out between the case/sump and use some sort of liquid gasket material. Al

Robert- Remember, oil in the cooler and filter (and lines) isn't available to the oil pick up- that's what the sump does, and why I mentioned the rpm limit above.

aircooled posted:

Also, I don't use that stock sump screen anymore. One less gasket...one less leak. The full flow filter does that part...........Bruce

Years ago I had a stud, that holds the sump to the case, come loose and get sucked up the pickup tube. It lodged in the pump gears and sheared off the tab on the drive gear. Luckily I heard the engine get noisy and saw the oil pressure gauge drop and the idiot light come on. I was extremely lucky that it didn't damage the slot in the cam, so i replaced the pump and added a screen.

I'm not a fan of the CB sumps with the larger plate. I would also stay away from the EMPI sumps, i've found sand from the casting still inside.

I like the Berg, it has machined surfaces and internal bracing so it won't collapse under the weight of the engine. And you can use the stock screen.

A hard drive magnet on the drain plate (if it's steel) or a "cow" magnet that you can hose clamp to the intake tube will keep larger ferrous metal stuff from doing that.

ALB posted:

A hard drive magnet on the drain plate (if it's steel) or a "cow" magnet that you can hose clamp to the intake tube will keep larger ferrous metal stuff from doing that.

True, just don't use stainless hardware

Bob- When installing, make sure the 2 mounting surfaces actually come together and the sump isn't touching the bottom of the engine somewhere else. If so, pull out the file. Al

I use Permatex Right Stuff between the two and no gaskets. Never a dip.

aircooled posted:

I have a 2110 with a CB low profile sump. I chose the low profile because of ground clearance concerns. DO use a JAY CEE sump cover with the o-ring seals. You'll be happy with no leaks. Also, I don't use that stock sump screen anymore. One less gasket...one less leak. The full flow filter does that part...........Bruce

Right on the money........   Pretty much all I use and all with the Jay Cee sump cover.  Doing oil changes without the Jay Cee sump cover is a 2 hour messy nasty oil change..... 

More is not always better.  The VW motor does not like to run 6 quarts of oil in the system, it can put you way up in the case with oil when running.  And, if you know of anyone that has ripped a sump off, they will tell you go low profile.  If you ever catch a regular deep sump (non low profile/slim), it will destroy your case and then sum...

Robert M posted:

I added the CB Performance 1.5 Quart Thin Line Sump and it works well. It doesn't hang too low so it doesn't drag on anything. It should snag anything either while driving down the road. Between the extra 1.5 quarts of oil from the sump, the extra oil in your cooler, and the little bit of extra in your remote filter you should have almost 5 quarts or more of oil.

I also added the JayCee Mag-X Plate with Drain Plug.

I left my stock screen in the sump with an extended pick up tube to stop any large pieces of metal from getting to the oil pump since the filter is after the oil pump. One extra bit of protection.

Yup again....  Trust these guys. 

Oh, one thing though, if you need something to catch big metal, time for a rebuild.  The screen is good to run (in my opinion) as it helps for oil foaming to go through the system by adding a bit of baffling. 

Glenn Ring posted:

I'm not a fan of the CB sumps with the larger plate. I would also stay away from the EMPI sumps, i've found sand from the casting still inside.

Regardless of brand, you have to clean them out thoroughly.  I have found sand in all brands.  I run a camera in them after using a brush to clean out every nook and cranny.  Just when you think you have cleaned it enough, clean it again.   I use WD40 (very good dispersent), hot tank, WD40, then WD40, and finish off with powder laundry soap and hot water.  Get that thing clean.  Also, it has polish residue inside that will wear on the bearings.  Oh, man...  Can't make the point enough.....  It will completely destroy your motor if you do not get it clean.

How do you guys attach the pickup extender to the pickup tube?

I brazed mine on so I wouldn't have to worry about it falling off and into the sump, but there must be other, trusty methods.

Thank you gentlemen. I'm taking the engine out today to do new tranny mounts,  dropped the camber compensator, check the clutch and related parts, replace the axle boots and I will order a sump today. I think I am going to replace most fasteners as well. The flex hoses to the J tubes pretty much came apart so I need to replace those and the clamps. Some other hoses are showing some wear so those will be new as well.  This started out a $40.00 job..........

Gordon Nichols posted:

How do you guys attach the pickup extender to the pickup tube?

I brazed mine on so I wouldn't have to worry about it falling off and into the sump, but there must be other, trusty methods.

I went ahead and spent a few bucks for an Empi Mini Oil Sump (Only paid $19 for it) just so I could get the oil tube extensions. I put mine on with a hose clamp and tightened it up pretty good. The new pick up tube has an angle to it and it sits about a quarter of an inch off the bottom of the sump and inside the stock screen. Even if by some remote chance the clamp loosens up the pick up tube can not slide off and the clamp will stay on the pick up tube.

After I drain the oil I remove the JayCee plate, clean the screen, and double check all everything inside there. I put in new rubber gaskets and button it all up. Working great so far and after two oil changes the hose clamp has not come loose....not even a little bit.

Well, the adventure continues.....Disconnected everything for engine removal and then took a real close look. I don't see, with the dual Del 40's that I can drop the engine without removing the carbs and manifolds.  Also disco

Question to somebody who knows..... How long are the bolts that go into the horns on the horn frame? I believe they are 1 1/16" How much play do I have if I loosen them before they come out?

Thanks in advance!

Just measured- 1 1/2" from the underside of the bolt head. It's typical that carbs and manifolds have to come off for removal/installation.

Check list for engine removal-                                                                                                        rear sheetmetal                                                                                                                                carbs/manifolds                                                                                                                              throttle cable                                                                                                                                    gas line                                                                                                                                              wiring to distributor and alternator                                                                                              2 bottom nuts/2 top bolts                                                                                                              heater box cables

Have I forgotten anything?

While flailing around under the car I  was embarrassed to find a second gas filter just past where the copper gas line changes to flex line. This is what happens when you don't do your own work. The filter was pretty funky looking, but not clogged. 

If I have a filter between the tank and the pump, do I need one between the pump and the carbs? If I were to chose one or the other, it seems one between the tank and the pump makes more sense, or do I have my brain hosing group firmly planted in my rectoral recess? 

Thanks ALB. Perfect.

I use one (filter) fore and aft.

"If I have a filter between the tank and the pump, do I need one between the pump and the carbs?"

NO.  Just one good one between the tank and the pump.

Al B: I use that drain plug. I milled, drilled, and tapped my CB thinline sump coverplate for 14mm x 1.5. Works a treat. It is from most modern Audis and VWs. Picked it up at the dealer with a couple copper crush washers for not much money.

On the sump extension, I bought all three sizes in a package from one of the Cali retailers. I ended up JB welding it in place, and also clamping it, and safety wiring the hose clamp. In an added state of obsessive anal retented-ness, I also installed a spring which pushes the extension UP from the cover plate. I don't run a screen, just a full flow Wix 1515.

Just added the thin line CB sump. Tony used some sort of adhesive and let it cure overnight. With the external oil cooler I am now running 5 quarts of Brad Penn. Only downside is the engine cooled down quite a bit when driving home in 35F weather.  Even with the T stat controlled valve to the cooler, I lost a lot of cabin heating. However I will no longer fear the heat of CA central valley when driving to S.F, just worry about sunburn. 

I swapped my Gene Berg sump out (not sure what size) for a CB thinline.  After I bottomed out the Berg sump twice I decided to try a thinner sump to increase the ground clearance.

A couple of hours after I bottomed out my sump for the second time the drain bolt fell out.   Luckily, I had just exited the freeway and was on a secondary road when I noticed a lot of smoke in my rear view mirror.  I pulled off the road, turn the engine off, and got out to see what the hell was going on.  I got down on my hands and knees and looked under the engine and watched the last of the engine's oil drain onto the gravel.  I shudder to think what could have happened if the drain plug had fallen out while I was driving on the freeway at 70 mph.

Thank goodness for BCAA.

What is the preferred location for the tow trucks hook(s)?  I have a CMC.

Front beam just inside the shock tower on each side.  Most would recommend flat towing a speedster. Tow hooks are just for getting you off the track/out of the marbles.

Unfortunately I have a great deal of experience being towed. In fact I am in need of a tow right now. I have AAA and I always insist on a flatbed and they have never failed to deliver. 

Thanks, I'd wait until AAA had a flat bed. Since I've intruded, a short story. Our Carrera's  generator went out,  by Casa De Fruta, (you know where that is Ted). About 80 miles to our house with 100 Lb. retriever in tow. With the targa top off, he stayed in the car, the entire way back to Stockton.  And a tow truck driver who wouldn't shut up.   

Art

AAA is the best last year I had a super low flared CMC , when the first AAA flat bed arrived he could not get safely onto the bed so they called the local AAA office and got them to dispatch an air bag assist flat bed , when that arrived the driver deflated the truck's suspension bags, hauled the speedster on a and re-inflated ...and all was covered 100% AAA.

Any other advanatage in using the  JAY CEE Max-X with the CB 1.5qt sump?

I've had my IM towed a couple of times and had my V8 powered Miata towed at least six times (overheating-big surprise).

Each time I've asked for a flatbed and each time the driver has had to use 2x4s of various lengths to get the car on the bed without scraping.

Needless to say, I now have a premium membership, because you never know......

I took my extension sump off.....it probably doesn't apply to you guys in the USA but in the UK we have speed bumps / sleeping policemen, I think you call them something else. They come in two styles here 1) a whole raised bump in the road, slows everything down and 2) square bumps that have the wheel spacing for ambulances / fire engines, i.e. wide. My car , with the sump extension hit the raised square every time, leaks , damage. Got fed up with it and took it off.

Unfortunately, we have speed bumps in Canada.  My old V8 powered Miata was so low I had to take speed bumps on an angle, or I'd bottom-out the oil pan.

The SCAT thin-line unit is nice, Bob. There's nothing wrong with the CB thin-line sump, as long as you get some extra gaskets.

Happiness is never exposing your oil pick-up to foam.

Glenn Ring posted:

aircooled posted:

Also, I don't use that stock sump screen anymore. One less gasket...one less leak. The full flow filter does that part...........Bruce

Years ago I had a stud, that holds the sump to the case, come loose and get sucked up the pickup tube. It lodged in the pump gears and sheared off the tab on the drive gear. Luckily I heard the engine get noisy and saw the oil pressure gauge drop and the idiot light come on. I was extremely lucky that it didn't damage the slot in the cam, so i replaced the pump and added a screen.

 

I'm not a fan of the CB sumps with the larger plate. I would also stay away from the EMPI sumps, i've found sand from the casting still inside.

 

I like the Berg, it has machined surfaces and internal bracing so it won't collapse under the weight of the engine. And you can use the stock screen.

 

the berg is a good unit. they are currently behind on  delivering them. I ordered one a few weeks ago for a customer and they had no ETA. I have installed a few CB units and considering whats available these days they are the second option. I will not install an empi brand unit.

I never liked the CB large center plate.... but they work.

I went with the CB thinline 1.5 qt. but I added the Jaycee center plate with the magnetized drain plug. Should be here Monday but the engine isn't reinstalled, waiting on some other parts, so cleaning it gives me one more thing to do while I wait.

Stan- sorry for my ignorance what supplier is SCAT ? I would like to look at what they offer for a sump. Thanks

Michael B (aka bluespeedster SoCal) posted:

Stan- sorry for my ignorance what supplier is SCAT ? I would like to look at what they offer for a sump. Thanks

These are the Scat sumps that show up on their website

Stan:

The sump is in the dishwasher. (Sounds like code)