Advice on the purchase of the ultimate toy

I would love to hear from a few experts in the field on the subject of the 356 replicas. I have done a bit of research, and have come to my own conclusions, but would love to hear if anyone has some knowledge they would want to share...

I currently own a 99 996 Cabriolet, and honestly...it just doesn't do it. Granted, it's modern and fast... but in South Florida (where I live) the car's talents are wasted in the bumper to bumper grind of everyday city driving...yawn.

I have done some SERIOUS looking into a 356 replica, and cannot come to any conclusions on which "line" would be best. Well, I take that back...I have an idea, I guess I just want some affirmation.

Here's the general idea: I live in SFla and it is HOT (Africa Hot!) like 9 months out of the year...so with that in mind- I NEED AIR CONDITIONING!! As well, living in SFla it rains on and off like mad, so a roll-up window as opposed to side curtains are a MUST! Other than that, I am just looking for a car that can be a semi-daily driver (reliable) and can put up with the Florida heat without melt-down.

Now, if anyone has any ideas....please let me in on it. I would rather not take the time to build my own car, just because I am only in the country for 6-8 months of the year and would really like to enjoy it ASAP.

I will look forward to any ideas, and appreciate any feedback.

Sounds like your criteria limit you to the following:
1. Either a Speedster or Convertible D from Intermechanicca (air- or water-cooled VW, I believe, both rear-mounted).
2. A 356 Cabriolet from Specialty Autoworks (Subaru powered, mid-engined).
3. The new 356C Cabriolet from Special Editions (Beck) (air-cooled VW or water-cooled Subaru, rear mounted)

All have roll-up windows, all are available with A/C, and both #1 and #2 have strong advocates, as you'll soon find out. #3 is brand new and only the prototype has been done as far as I am aware. However, the pictures make it look really sweet. The Beck Speedster website doesn't have any posted yet, but you can contact them for some info.

I've been in the Speedster-lust mode for over a year now, and have yet to buy one, but even this part of the insanity is fun. Enjoy.

Lane Anderson

Oh yeah, you'll find that there are many IM owners on this site who can help you with that brand. Specialty Autoworks has delivered one Cabrio to John "Hoss" Hallstrand, and one to Steven O'Brien.. Both are gorgeous. John's is the red one shown on the Specialty Autoworks website and was the first to be delivered. He almost immediately drove it from East Tennessee to CA for this year,'s Knott's Berry Farm show. He also drove it up to Carlisle in May. Very nice car.

I agree. Hoss has a beautiful SAW as well as Steve O'Brien. I saw both in person, although Steve's was a work-in-progress. I was disappointed that SAW made and broke some promises to me, but that notwithstanding, John H's car was something else. Need to ask those guys for their 2 cents. They are smart fellas with a real love for these cars (of all brands).

I have a 2005 IM Speedster and would be happy to share my postive experience with the builder and the Speedster. I have 8,000 miles on it now, including a drive from Vancouver to Oklahoma. As John suggested, we can discuss it via e-mail, or on this forum.

I agree with Steve.....

You are more then welcome to email me direct also, but I will say something up front. I think, if you want the airconditioning you need to stick to the liquid cooled IM, SAW, or BECK.

While my airconditioning on my IM (vw aircooled) car worked great, it was a load on the engine and at stop and go type of driving I never ran it becuase it made the engine run hotter then I wanted to chance. Going at normals speeds it was never a factor.

Of course on the liquid cooled cars it is a non-factor.

Here is a picture of a Cabriolet for you to look at.

I disagree, but will discuss it off-forum.

SE
I recently took delivery of '58 Intermeccanica Speedster. Drove 3800 miles back to central Texas from Vancouver. Had zero problems! Crossed the Mojave desert (115 degrees) 70-80 MPH. AC will freeze you out. Will be happy to discuss details off line with you.

Steve, Oh my goodness! What a photo. Beautiful car, man. The rest of you guys, please stay on the forum. The rest of us like to read the discussions.

(Temporary Thread Hi-Jack)

Bob, I recently saw some pics of your new IM Speedster during the final days of the build (Engine in and running with the IM test exhaust on) and I have to say that it is sweet and should turn the heads in Hill Country. I like the selections, especially your interior choice. The Roadster seats look very nice. The whole car reminds me of a black on black with red original, one owner Speedster that was featured in the summer isssue of the 356 Registry. That Speedster had the roadster seats in it from the factory. It reminded me of your and Dale's IMs.(You may have seen the article. The owner drove it to Calgary for a 356 Registry Holiday.)

A very nice IM Bob. Congratulations.


(Thread Hi-Jack over.)

Gentlemen,

Initially, I would like to thank all for their quick and informative opinions on the "356 line". Secondly, Mr Ward and Obrien, one word for the both of you...magnificent! I can strive to have such a toy, both absolute works of art.

Now to the nitty gritty. I am not suprised to have people recommend the IM, actually was leaning that way but was curious of the issues discussed in the forum: (Stop and go traffic combined with A/C and an air cooled engine). I think the team at IM have been doing this long enough and have worked out most all of the bugs. They are building a quality automobile. Then I picked up the telephone last night (afternoon US time) and called to Steve Lawing at SAW. Very receptive and informative on his line. Here's my dilemma...

To have a car that has that vintage feel, and an air cooled engine...well, that's all part of the package and is staying in theme with the whole "I have to pamper my classic". On the other hand, to have a true "modern car" with classic looking skin kind of breaks the whole mold, but does wonders for the comfort of the soul of turning the key and sitting in traffic for 30min not having to constantly stare at the temp guage. Now, the AC is a must in the car-we've already determined that, but electric windows? A little much in my opinion. Now I understand the IM and the SAW are both in essence new cars, so really the only "pampering" is well, in honesty, why we love to have them...detail them...show, wash and drive them. I am starting to lean from the IM toward the Mid-engine "Subaru 356" (I know I will catch hell for that one!)

I cannot get over the hurdle in my head of having a "356" with electric windows, an H2O cooled engine, and an actual trunk! Although the more I think of it, the more practical it seems. And there lies the problem.......Traditional thinking vs Practicality

In the meantime, I appreciate any posts of informative tidbits that may help to swing me one way or another and will continue to check in to read the collective wisdom.

I will take the opportunity to individually write with specific questions and appreciate the offer.

Scott Teele

My IM had manual windows and they were nice to have, simply out of convenience. My SAW has electric windows, but the cranks make them look like manuals. I personally don't think electric windows are necessary, but they don't really cost very much to have so most people prefer them. You can also option to hide the electric window switchs if you don't want them to show.

Ask away using this venue or privately via e-mail, your choice. If you are in a hurry, SAW has a backlog and it is a small shop. They are gearing up for quicker production as we speak.
Hoss

Hello Scott. I edited my previous post to include photos of my car. The problem you are wrestling with has a familiar ring to it. Having owned a VS Speedster with a 1776cc VW engine, I know the appeal of the classic configuration. I had to consider carefully my needs and budget to move to the next replica and thus I took a leap of faith to purchase the first "Tubaru" to hit the streets.

By and large, I would have to say that it was a good choice for me. If I feel the need to lay on my back and adjust valves, I can do that with my wife's '63 bug. The classic look with modern internals works for me. It's a personal choice and I wouldn't fault anyone for looking at the same facts and coming to a different conclusion.
my 2 kroner
Hoss

Scott: I was into VW based kits since the mid 80's. They're great when you enjoy tinkering and wrench bending. I had a lot of fun working on the bug engines and started out in the early 60's with a 1950 split window and ending up lately with a 1700 Type IV. Now I also live in South Florida and find it as hot as you do. Sometimes it's too hot to lean over or slide under a car to work on. I sold a Spyder because of the high maintenance it required and without a top, the sun would give you a sunburn to remember. I went to the SAW factory and met up with John (Hoss) and he graciously gave me a terrific ride though the hills of Tennessee. I was sold on the quick acceleration, smooth idle and overall road manners of his Cabriolet. The electric windows are well disguised as rollup type handles that with a slight push forward or back activate the windows. The A/C and heat (probably will never use the heater down here) as well as the top are A-One. I'm going to opt for the cruise control and larger engine. I'm partial to the flared fenders and like the "California" look. I started my purchase in July and it's now in the construction phase. SAW is a small outfit which build other types of cars and their output is slow but precise and from what I've heard from Hoss and Steve they stand behind their product and help in every way they can. Jim can fill you in about the air cooled IM's and I'm sure there's someone else out there that can let you know about water-cooled IMs or other makes. Good Hunting Scott.

My last bit of advice would be to visit both manufactuers (IM and SAW), look at their operations, drive a few cars, meet the builder, and then make an objective choice based on what you see, rather than what you feel like you may want. I'm confident that if you take the builders tours and drive both cars, your choice, the one that fits you, will be an easy one to make.

Again thanks for the words of wisdom. Just a few more...

With an air cooled IM, is there the possibility of employing electric fans to move air when the car is stationary for long periods of time? Either induction fans or extraction? If so is the noise a factor?

With the H2O cooled "Tubaru" (cool term I picked up on the site!) I am assuming the radiator is in the bow (front). What use is the chrome vent over what would be the engine bay? Is it strictly cosmetic now?

Last but not least...From what I read the SAW kit is REALLY close to the actual measurements and dimensions to an orig 356. How much difference are the IM kits in stature? Are they built with the orig. dimensions in mind?

I am looking forward to my return to the US, upon which I will take a road trip to the SAW factory, and to the IM distributer on the east coast to get a first hand experience on both models.

Are there any upcoming meets that I may be able to see some different models all at once? Maybe a contact in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale area) that may want to exchange emails and inform me of when they will go out for a spin or a show?

As always, looking forward to any shared knowledge.

Scott

Nolan,

After re-reading all the replies, I am curious as to when you will be taking delivery of your car? I would really appreciate a peek when you do.

Scott

I think visiting the manufacturers is a big waste of time, unless they have finished cars for you to look at. All save you the time and money and tell you that Henry has a lot bigger operation and from the pictures I have seen is impressive in every aspect. But I wouldn't go and look at his facility, I would go and look at his cars. It's like the Honda dealer showing me around the dealership when I'm looking at buying a car. I had to look right at him, and say "frankly I don't give a damn how nice your shop is, but I do notice a lot of the same model of car on the hoist, why is that?"

If you can find some closer by that owners have it would be better to look at those first. Of course that is going to be easier to do with the IM then the SAW. There are only 4 SAW liquid cooled cars out there, but your more then welcome to come over to my house and look at it if you want to???

As for SAW, if you have seen a typical body repair shop that is basically what it looks like. Its in no way going to impress me whatesoever, but I do like the cars.

If your in a hurry, then I guess you will have to go with an air-cooled car, because SAW has a backlog of orders and IM has yet to finish the prototype and I don't think Henry will take any orders until he gets the prototype done.

employing electric fans to move air when the car is stationary for long periods of time? You need to clarify what it is your thinking, the fan on the IM is integral to the engine and runs all of the time, but you can put on an external oil cooler and fan to help with the heat, (in fact you should definitely put one on if your going to have an aircooled engine)

radiator... in back on passenger side (common placement on midengine cars)

Are they built with the orig. dimensions in mind? Both cars are fairly close to the average observer. You will never fool someone who really knows these cars, but they are very close. The engine grill on the SAW is purely decorative, there is a trunk under the lid.

I am looking forward to my return to the US....do you know when your coming?

shows? Carlise in May and Knotts in April, will have a little of everything displayed

Amazing. Simply Amazing.

Visiting the manufacturer is in no way like visiting a dealer. It's like visiting the manufacturer. Seeing the insides and undersides and all sides of what goes into a car you are going to buy is hugely beneficial. You will come away knowing exactly what you will be getting. You also get to see what parts inventory is like, and what is in development, and what the staff is like. That tells you what after-sales service will be like. Again, very important.

Not sure about SAW but IM always has finished cars that you can see and drive. As for an 'accurate representation', the IM molds are taken off a real 356, and Henry can build you a car that even a purist would be hard pressed to tell from an original.

In the same vein, Hoss, the top on your car doesn't look right in that picture, like it extends too far back or something. Is that right, or is it just an optical illusion.

Henry has already taken at least one order for a watercooled car, not sure why he wouldn't take another?

Regarding 'overheating with A/C'. This was a problem for Steve who bought a used car that had been bastardized. I had A/C on my car with no issues at all. You will find the same for others, like Bob who posted above and just drove his car through the desert with no problems.

My 2 cents worth....

RonL, remember that my car is a Cabriolet, not a Convertible D. The roof lines are not the same. The deck is cut 5 1/2" farther back on this model. Check with an authoratative source, like Dr. Brett Johnson's book to verify. I thought it looked wrong too when I first looked at it, but (builder) Steve is too sharp to make a blunder like getting the roof line wrong.

I have attached a photo of an original Cab. Also, on the SAW website there is a picture of the same original and my car for comparison.

Also attached is a photo of the radiator as currently installed in my Cabriolet.

If you can visit the factory, I encourage you to do so. I went out to California & visited Vintage Speedsters & it was awesome. I met Kirk, & saw the production line... impressive to put it mildly. Kirk was tightening up a few things on my car, as a result I had to hang around a little longer than planned. Not to worry, he gave me the keys to his car & told me to go hang out a shopping center down the street! Is that cool or what?

Good advice David. I think anyone considering a turn-key from any of the builders should visit the builder.

Steve, I cannot believe you would not recommend visiting the builders to compare. And yes, to me an experienced staff, a clean shop, the builder's communications, reliability, experience, and past reputation are very important.

Why wouldn't you suggest a buyer that is considering a SAW or a IM visit both builders, test drive a car (or even two), look at the build process, meet the man you are about to pony up some cash to, look at the options, discuss a real build date, and then compare the product with the other builder?

Surely Jim you must realize that a small operation like SAW is not going to have a demonstrator or two sitting around for a prospective buyer to take a test drive. If that's the test a prospect should use, my advice would be to look elsewhere.

As far as visiting a builder and in deference to Steve O, I would do it.

That's a good point John. A test drive is important and so is a look at a finished car and so checking your or Steve's Cabs would be something a prospective customer should do. We agree.

Steve, I cannot believe you would not recommend visiting the builders to compare. And yes, to me an experienced staff, a clean shop, the builder's communications, reliability, experience, and past reputation are very important.

I agree, I just don't think you have to go there to know what is being told to you by people who have been there. I certainly don't think a day at the builder will tell you about reliability, experience and past reputation. These are issues that you can only learn by people who have actually dealt with the particular builder.

discuss a real build date??? Oh please, all of us who have been around this neighborhood know that there is really no such thing. I mean how many cars really come out of any builders shop on time. Very very few. Lets not be a part of the system that sets up unrealistic expectations. None of these guys will promise any date and they will generally be anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months late.

I don't suggest going to SAW, if they don't have a finished car to look at and drive then what is the point. I think you are making my point for me. You think that a persn should go to the place to look at and drive a finished car, but we all know that SAW most likely won't have one there in that state. So your left with looking at some cars in different states of build. For some of us this may be valuable information, but for the average person it doesn't really mean a lot. If you want to drive one and look at one the way you suggest then you should go to where one is at. The average person doesn't truly understand a lot of the significance of the things that they put in to building these cars.

And Ron, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Henry is NOT taking orders on liquid cooled cars. That doesn't mean he couldn't have one ready in about the same time frame as a SAW, but I don't know and don't pretend to know what Henry decides to do and when.

I also don't think you can expect to drive a liquid cooled car at IM since he is still working on it. I don't think its really a fair comparison, to compare a liquid cooled car to the VW car. They really are significantly different.

Maybe its just because I spent too many years in sales, but this whole "get them to come look" thing is just a little too salesman for me, and I think people learn more by talking to other people and looking at finished cars.

Jim, someone else took themselves out of the line to get yours done on time. While thats great for you, it only worked because someone else didn't care about being delayed.

I don't know why, but it seems to me that were agreeing on most things so, I'm not sure why your so amazed.

Henry hit my projected build date within a week, 6 months prior.

Steve, you continue to amaze me in these posts. You actually advocate spending money on a custom built car without visiting the builder? Amazing.

I think any buyer that is trying to decide between two different builders should compare the cars in person, and visit the builder to see the frame, prep process, quality of paint and parts, and "those other intangibles" that make a difference.

OK new post time, see other thread on "who here actually received a car on time?"

And I offered my opinion, then you had to disagree, thats precisely when this thread turned in to a debate. A debate about nothing in my opinion, but thats ok.

Ron, my IM was not Bastardized at all. I was, and am still very proud of that car. It was a great car. What on earth makes you think it was Bastardized. Every single part on that car came from IM, except the oil cooler which was the same exact thing you and others here recommended for the car.

The car was fine, the drivetrain was also fine, after I had it put back in for the third time. This also was no fault of IM, it was just an old tired engine that needed a lot of TLC to make it right again.

I don't see us agreeing on anything on this thread Steve. Your statements continue to amaze me. You do NOT want to get into a delivered as promised debate with me or the importance of a builder's reputation off line and on the net.

I'm off this thread. We were supposed to be offering suggestions to the member that initiated this thread. John's advice was right on target. Now I will let go of this debate and go do something productive. You can shadow box all you want Steve.

Scott. I apologize for not sticking to suggestions on your thread. I do not speak for IM, or other IM owners. My suggestions just come from my experence with IM.

As a final suggestion, look for Bob Miller's new pics of his new IM Speedster with a/c to be posted soon. The car is beautiful and he just drove it from Vancouver BC, home to Texas with the a/c on running through the Mojave desert. And yes, most aircooled Replicas have external cooling fans. My car runs as cool in town as it does on the highway. Write Bob Miller and ask him how his a/c works down in Texas in traffic.

Scott: I don't have a delivery date yet which is Ok by me as I'm socking away my spare cash to add some accessories to my Tubaru. If it's too far into the winter I'll probably have it shipped after SAW gives it a good shake down run. I went into the contract knowing I wasn't dealing with Boyd Coddington or those other builders that set deadlines and then rush the (un)finished product out the door. I knew it would take 8 months to a year for completion so I'm just chill'n 'til then. If you do make a run by SAW you can let me know how it's coming along. Don't expect to see a big production shop as SAW is a relatively small outfit and as Steven O' said it's like a repair shop with cars in various stages packed in every corner. While the shop wasn't too impressive, See Hoss's car and Steven O's car in progress did impress me. What ever maker you choose, I'm sure you'll be satisfied. As far as I know, I, Hoss, Steve, and Jim don't receive any royalties or commissions so we'll welcome you what ever you buy.

Guess what? My VS was done pretty much on time; it left the shop probably a couple of days later than expected but shipping took less than expected such that it got here a week earlier than originally scheduled....

You can really learn alot about the builders right here on this site, but can really only know about the cars by seeing one that is done, and maybe driving it if the owner doesn't mind. Alot easier to find and owner and look at the finished product, then running all over the country and looking at a builders shop. Alot of them are little more then a good sized garage.

Once again Steven, you are wrong. Henry has taken an order for a watercooled car. You will find a discussion of that on this web site under "Watercooled IM" where John discusses his watercooled IM.