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Advice sought for Mom's Caddy

FM Former Member
I don't know about GMs in general, so I'll throw this out there for y'all to chew on for a couple days.
Dear old Mom lives in St. Louis. There's a reputable dealership chain there that used to carry every new car GM came out with. Mom, being her mother's daughter, was a fan of Oldsmobile for decades. All she ever drove were the latest Olds cars, from the Gutless all the way through the line up to Toronado.
Most recently, she had a Gutless Supreme. She dogged that car until it cried Uncle, but it never gave her any trouble. She drives pretty well, and they were all automatics with stock everything. Nothing too fancy -- to include the paint.
So. There she was, minding her own business, when her mom died. Old Grandma was about Methusela old, and a retired RN who worked for years and then bought and ran a foster-care business. She had some scratch to her name when she popped smoke and got buried, and she left it in equal parts to Mom and my uncle.
Cool. The house got paid off, blah, blah, blah. She did a whole wad of responsible stuff with the inheritance, and then had a little left to play with. She did two things with that remainder -- she joined the revolution and bought a computer ... and she bought this giant maroon 2001 Cadillac Seville STS. It was a year or so old when she bought it, with standard mileage and no apparent damage.
She'd have bought an Olds, but they were busy going under.
Since then, this Caddy has been plagued with problems; she's had all the services the manual recommends, she's had the tires rotated and so on, and it now has just over 50,000 miles. She bought that particular car on the recommendation of the sales manager at the dealership, who then sold it to her for something over $30K, cash on the barrelhead.
She didn't buy the extended warranty. (Can you see this coming?)
Yesterday, on her 60th birthday, her STS took a poop. The diagnosis is a cracked engine block, and they want to charge her $8K for the repair.
Thoughts? Dad's pissed, but wants to cool off before he calls the sales manager up.
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FM Former Member
I don't know about GMs in general, so I'll throw this out there for y'all to chew on for a couple days.
Dear old Mom lives in St. Louis. There's a reputable dealership chain there that used to carry every new car GM came out with. Mom, being her mother's daughter, was a fan of Oldsmobile for decades. All she ever drove were the latest Olds cars, from the Gutless all the way through the line up to Toronado.
Most recently, she had a Gutless Supreme. She dogged that car until it cried Uncle, but it never gave her any trouble. She drives pretty well, and they were all automatics with stock everything. Nothing too fancy -- to include the paint.
So. There she was, minding her own business, when her mom died. Old Grandma was about Methusela old, and a retired RN who worked for years and then bought and ran a foster-care business. She had some scratch to her name when she popped smoke and got buried, and she left it in equal parts to Mom and my uncle.
Cool. The house got paid off, blah, blah, blah. She did a whole wad of responsible stuff with the inheritance, and then had a little left to play with. She did two things with that remainder -- she joined the revolution and bought a computer ... and she bought this giant maroon 2001 Cadillac Seville STS. It was a year or so old when she bought it, with standard mileage and no apparent damage.
She'd have bought an Olds, but they were busy going under.
Since then, this Caddy has been plagued with problems; she's had all the services the manual recommends, she's had the tires rotated and so on, and it now has just over 50,000 miles. She bought that particular car on the recommendation of the sales manager at the dealership, who then sold it to her for something over $30K, cash on the barrelhead.
She didn't buy the extended warranty. (Can you see this coming?)
Yesterday, on her 60th birthday, her STS took a poop. The diagnosis is a cracked engine block, and they want to charge her $8K for the repair.
Thoughts? Dad's pissed, but wants to cool off before he calls the sales manager up.
FM Former Member
Try to get the dealership to honor-repair this. When that fails, walk away from the dealership. Find a good independent wrench, have him put in a motor from a wrecked Caddy. It's not like it's going to void her warranty or anything. Kelly Blue Book private seller value on that car (if it is the loaded STS) is only around 12-13K. Very important to factor that into the repair cost. The 8K repair offered by the dealership will likely grow to 10K when they fix all the other things they imagine could be wrong someday but should be taken care of now...

angela
WOLFGANGWOLFGANG'89 CMC FWB, FL Supporting Member
Check to see if it was purchased as a Certified Pre-Owned Cadilac at the dealer --- if so it has a 6 year (from original date of initial service) and 100k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. Still puts it perhaps past warranty period but might be close enought that they would honor --- especially with such low mileage. Normal new Caddy warranty was 5 year/100k miles so that makes it good year or 2 out of warranty.
FM Former Member
Sounds like replacement is the way to go:

"In researching this engine, we discovered that few rebuilders are overhauling Northstar V8s - not because these engines are lasting forever (they're not) but because the Northstar V8s are such expensive and complex engines. Cadillac has no reman program for Northstar V8s (if one fails, replace it with a new one). None of the major production engine rebuilders are doing Northstar V8s, and some rebuilders told us certain critical internal parts are unavailable (such as oversize crankshaft bearings). Add to this the fact that the cylinder liners can't be replaced or overbored and it doesn't leave much to rebuild.

"Even the heads are throw-aways, according to Cadillac. If the valve guides are worn, Cadillac says the cylinder heads need to be replaced. The heads have hard powder metal valve guides, but we don't see any reason why the guides can't be replaced with new ones or repaired with bronze or cast iron guide liners."

and

"If an engine has failed and is being rebuilt or replaced, the Engine Rebuilders Association (AERA) says the plastic intake manifold also should be replaced. The reason? Because of the complex shape of the manifold, it's impossible to tell if any engine debris has been blown back inside it. If the debris works loose and is ingested into the new engine, it will cause a repeat failure."

From http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us100232.htm



WOLFGANGWOLFGANG'89 CMC FWB, FL Supporting Member
While GM may not rebuild them others do - its a popular hot rod engine. Makes a nasty Fiero based kit car repower! Here's link for one for <$3500 with 3 year warranty - better than $8k + installation. Jasper also remanuf them. Sounds like GM still hasn't learned from the old Chevy Vega days --- shame on them for a disposable V8 engine!

http://www.ae-engines.com/cadillac46northstar.html

FM Former Member
Are you planning to keep this vehicle for awhile? Even after a successful transplant, be prepared for an additional decline in resale value after repair. CarFax would probably pick up a replacement engine. That said, if I was going to keep the car, if a replacement engine has lower mileage, I'd still proceed.
FM Former Member
Pan based speedy would probably never show on carfax as that system requires a 17 digit VIN. The standardized VIN did not go into effect wordlwide until 1981...

Agree that the engine replacement unless paid by the insurance company will be invisible on carfax. A few years ago I bought a car at a salvage auction with a bad motor. It was a Honda Accord. The driver had taken a rock hit in the front and punctured the radiator. They drove the car until the engine seized. As the damage was directly related to the impact, it was covered under insurance and the car was "totalled." I bought it for a couple of hundred bucks, hand an engine put into it and sold it for 3K. Good deal for me.

That won't be the case here though Cory. Personally, I love the Northstar engines. You may also be at the point where it is advisable to tow the car to another reputable mechanic for a second opinion and estimate. Hard to mis-diagnose a cracked block, but it would be a shame to replace an engine for a broken coolant fitting or some other odd thing.

angela
WOLFGANGWOLFGANG'89 CMC FWB, FL Supporting Member
Angela - Agree on second opinion even at cost of having to have it towed. Overheating and chocolate milk-like oil could be head gasket or bad head even. Overheating - thermostat, hoses, WP. Cory didn't say if they had dismanteled or merely diagnosed "from the hip". 50k is low mileage for having to replace engine. GM is looking for all the revenue it can get right now --- as are Ford and other US auto makers.
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