Is the pope catholic?
To piggy back on @DannyP comment of all the automated gadgets reducing driving skills….i don’t think the youth minds. I actually think they prefer not having to worry about something so cumbersome as driving.
I how ave been amazed how many 16-21 y/o’s don’t have a drivers license or have plans to get one. I used to think it may have just been in my Bay Area bubble….but now I am aware of young adults in the Midwest that don’t have their DL, and don’t care to get one.
I’m sure I’m like many (if not all) of you in saying I couldn’t wait to get my DL. And….even drove without one at younger ages.
The car represented freedom. No more parental nagging. But it seems now they can get that by putting in their AirPods and hoping on their iPhone.
I'll echo Kevin's statement. I have a niece who hates to drive and owns a car only as a necessity. A neighbor's son is in the same boat, driving only when he has to. Finally a 28YO, very smart fellow I work with says he can't wait to be able to get a Tesla with full autonomous driving as he wants to be driven rather than do it himself. It's a different world, much of it caused by the increase in congestion. Traffic has increased where I live so much that I don't really enjoy driving around here very much, either. That's one of the reasons I no longer have a Speedster/Coupe.
My kids both drive. My daughter got her permit at 16, the minimum age. License at just after 16.5, the soonest appointment available after the 6 month mandatory permit time. She drives an Outback.
My son dragged his feet a little, and got his license at 17.5. He was lucky enough to drive to school for a month or two of his senior year, then the kids went remote learning. He now drives a modified Legacy GT turbo with a 5 speed stick.
They are both decent drivers, so I'm proud of that. They can both drive stick too, which is RARE these days. Where we live, it's pretty rural, so driving is mostly enjoyable still.
All 3 of my kids could/can drive a stick. Two of them were/are good drivers, one of them was/is horrible.
To answer @imperial's question regarding the TV screen in front being hacked to play movies (and Ray's "Catholic" response), I'd say I see at least one car a day with the driver watching movies on his car's display.
... and I agree -- the truck's infotainment display is ridiculous, and the reason I bought the extended warranty (for the first time ever). That center display sells for $18,000 (I'm told). I don't trust car makers to be very good at software/hardware.
@imperial posted:I am amazed they allow a TV set to be mounted in the dash of many modern cars !
OK it not really a TV but its the same idea and distracts the driver by taking his eyes off the road .....
PS , I wonder if anyone has hacked the dash monitors / TVs to play movies etc thru bluetooth ?
I agree, some of the worst offenders at watching the big screen are Tesla drivers or I should just call them riders. Most can't even figure where they are going without relaying on the big screen. Talk about a distraction........ between the big screen and their cell phones they are totally detached from the skill of driving. Having driven the same roads with this folks, you can't trust them to stay in there lane, make a Uturn right in front of you or just come to a complete stop cause they missed something on the big screen. My $.02 ......... There are others for sure. The worst thing about a cell phone is it works while you're driving. Most offender completely ignore the hands free capability and get lost in the hand held devise while trying to drive a vehicle. Crazy stuff !!!!
I bought my 3 kids cars with manual transmissions only. I thought I was doing them this great service. They all loved it since no one could borrow their cars. They are all very good drivers. But of course now they all own Teslas. My kids look at a car as a tool. I’m not sure they will ever be car enthusiasts. They think I’m silly. In 20 years who is really going to be interested in a 1950s replica. I just don’t know.
Phil, I can't like your post because I sadly have to agree with it.
@550 Phil posted:In 20 years who is really going to be interested in a 1950s replica. I just don’t know.
Confirmation bias is a thing. I’m not sure your kids are a representative subset, Phil.
Like mechanical watches, there will be plenty of enthusiasts appreciating analog cars in 20 (or 40) years.
I won’t be around to be proved right, but I don’t need to see it to know it’s true.
My sons are split.
The computer engineer is a bit of a car guy, the English major could care less.
@Stan Galat posted:Confirmation bias is a thing. I’m not sure your kids are a representative subset, Phil.
Like mechanical watches, there will be plenty of enthusiasts appreciating analog cars in 20 (or 40) years.
I won’t be around to be proved right, but I don’t need to see it to know it’s true.
True, there are enthusiasts out there now using typewriters who weren't born when they were still in use
@550aus posted:True, there are enthusiasts out there now using typewriters who weren't born when they were still in use
Yeah, I don’t know any typewriter enthusiasts — but I know plenty of ICE enthusiasts under 40, plenty of audiophiles who listen to vinyl records on tube amplifiers, and plenty of mechanical watch aficionados of all ages. Almost everybody wants a home from some other era: from legitimate colonials to mid-century modern— and that these homes require serious compromises is something they just live with. The vibe is worth it to them.
Cool stuff stays relevant, even when it requires sacrifice.
We have had this discussion many times...here
@IaM-Ray posted:We have had this discussion many times...here
Yes we have.
For at least 10 years, some members have been predicting the inevitable decline of the hobby and fretting about who will cary the torch, etc. and so forth
… and yet prices have never been higher and wait times have never been longer. I’m still getting mobbed when I try to buy gas and people still drive off the road trying to snap a picture.
Maybe other guys are seeing something I’m not.
Duh! Just traded my 2014 Volvo in for a very slightly used 2022. The 2024s and 2025 looked cheap in comparison. While it has a 4-cylinder engine, it's turbo and supercharged producing more hp then the 2014 turbo six(300hp). The damned car is smarter than me, everything is just about voice controlled, other things only need a tap to activate. Tap the shift knob to change gears, Say "Hey Google" to change the A/C temp, fan speed, change seat temperature, set an address in the Navigation, change radio stations and it's like driving a smart phone. I'm old school and still miss my rotary wall phone. It's rough to drag me in to the new world. Send me back where I had 3 on the tree or 4 on the floor and had a steering wheel as big as a hula hoop. 
My kids are split as well.
My son and daughter both learned to drive in the 1990’s on an automatic because that’s all we had at the time, a big ol’ Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Their grandfather’s 1943 Ford Ferguson farm tractor or my lawn tractor didn’t count, because they didn’t even have synchros!
These days, my son drives an automatic GMC pickup, but he also has a 6-speed-manual Porsche 996 that he’s pretty proficient with, while his sister drives a Mercedes AMG 500+hp automatic SUV because that’s what she likes (and she says it sounds pretty cool when she puts her foot in it).
It’s a really big tent.
.
As a photo dog, I often mourn the passing of old school analog cameras.
Like modern cars, the new photo tech is way better for most people. The photo equivalent of 'just needing to get from A to B' is just showing your friends the world around you as conveniently and as clearly as possible. For that, the iPhone is light years better than anything Kodak or Nikon ever made.
But for those who want to go beyond average, a smartphone gives you few options for upping your game. In a way, making pictures with an iPhone is Just like two pedal driving. It gives you no inkling of the kind of control that's available with the old tech.
And if you don't know, you won't care, and you won't demand anything better. The best parts of the old school way of doing things are gradually forgotten. Average, and sometimes mediocre, become good enough.
When I was starting out, there was no 'autofocus' for professional cameras. Zoom lenses were lower quality than fixed focal lengths. You had to consciously choose a lens for every situation and know how that choice would affect the result. You had to understand the principles of optics to do your job. There were other manual adjustments for setting exposure and, again, you had to know how to apply the different controls for different situations. It was much more cumbersome than today, but if you knew what you were doing, the resulting images were better than if an algorithm made the decisions.
I think, just like with these cars we love, holding onto the past can be more than just soppy sentimentality. Something very real is being lost in all of the dumbing down.
.
@Nolan posted:Duh! Just traded my 2014 Volvo in for a very slightly used 2022. The 2024s and 2025 looked cheap in comparison. While it has a 4-cylinder engine, it's turbo and supercharged producing more hp then the 2014 turbo six(300hp). The damned car is smarter than me, everything is just about voice controlled, other things only need a tap to activate. Tap the shift knob to change gears, Say "Hey Google" to change the A/C temp, fan speed, change seat temperature, set an address in the Navigation, change radio stations and it's like driving a smart phone. I'm old school and still miss my rotary wall phone. It's rough to drag me in to the new world. Send me back where I had 3 on the tree or 4 on the floor and had a steering wheel as big as a hula hoop.
Nolan. For years, from 1974 to 1992 - when our three boys were young - our form of transportation was Volvo 240 station wagons. I believe we had three of them over time. They were safe, reliable, fairly cheap to maintain and repair, and good in all kinds of weather. We always had manual transmissions with the overdrive switch on the gear knob. Those cars took us to the east coast of Canada, through the upper U.S. states, for a number of vacations, and then back and forth to Newfoundland when we were teaching university there.
I never had any concerns when my wife, and then eventually, my sons drove those cars. All the boys learned to drive in those cars: stick shift, with no hill holder, lane swerve, cross traffic, collision avoidance cruise control, automatic panic braking, etc. and with real knobs and switches. And a radio.
I miss those cars.
I had a 740 GLE.
Great car. It left with the first wife.
I had two 74 145’s and a 72 164. I wish I had any one of them now.
@Panhandle Bob posted:I had a 740 GLE.
Great car. It left with the first wife.
If you could get one of them back, which would it be?
that’s funny is…. he’d be in trouble if he owns up to this one
@Bob: IM S6 posted:If you could get one of them back, which would it be?
The one with four wheels and no attitude.
I never was a Volvo fan. I always thought of them being a grannie's car or for old fogies until I took Volvo up on their Oversea Delivery Program. Bought a new (2014) SUV from a dealer in Fort Lauderdale and received round-trip tickets for two to Sweden. Upon arrival we were taken to the Raddison Hotel for the night. In morning we were driven to the Volvo factory, given a tour of the factory, museum then ate lunch. After lunch we were given the keys to the new Volvo, 2 weeks of international car insurance and said to be back in 2 weeks to have the car shipped back to the dealership where I purchased it. In 14 years, the only thing that had gone wrong was the battery when one of its plates broke lose when I hit a deep pothole. I just wish Volvo still made the P1800.
ps: The program offered the car approximately three to four thousand dollars less than MSRP. If only Porsche had the same program. 
Me either, Nolan. My pediatrician had a P1800 in the early 70s that I stared at(lusted after) every time one of us four kids needed a doctor.
That P1800 was beautiful, the rest of the Volvos looked like saltine cracker boxes.
I always thought Volvos were for scared people. Scared of getting killed in a crash. They were always driven SLOWLY, carefully, and well, scared. People bought them because they were advertised as safe.
The only way to really be safe is never to drive, right?
"I always thought Volvos were for scared people. Scared of getting killed in a crash. They were always driven SLOWLY, carefully, and well, scared. People bought them because they were advertised as safe."
Well, Danny, I guess I was scared of having three precious little boys in the back seat, and not having them killed in a collision.
As a father, I had the right to be scared.
@Nolan posted:I never was a Volvo fan. I always thought of them being a grannie's car or for old fogies until I took Volvo up on their Oversea Delivery Program...................
ps: The program offered the car approximately three to four thousand dollars less than MSRP. If only Porsche had the same program.
I know VW had a Tourist delivery program and believe Porsche did too,
and before you could buy a used VW in Europe and ship it back to the USA on the VW ship by taking the car to the local VW dealer. I did it once 
@DannyP posted:I always thought Volvos were for scared people. Scared of getting killed in a crash. They were always driven SLOWLY, carefully, and well, scared. People bought them because they were advertised as safe.
I guess you were never over-taken by Paul Newman in his race-prepped V6-Turbo Volvo 740 wagon on an interstate. A couple of hi-beam blips to let you know he's back there and approaching very quickly, you pull into the right lane and "Whoosh!"...... With a parting wave he was by and gone, never to be seen later on.
A friend of mine had a much-modified 242GT(I think that was the model number) 4 door sedan. It was nice(and VERY quick), but I guess I've never really been a sedan guy.
I did own a 5000 CS Quattro 4 door for a while though. That one was fun to drive through the snow with Blizzaks on it. You could almost drive it like the roads were clear.
I much preferred his 1972 911T coupe. That one he let me borrow for extended periods, like a week at a time. Glorious fun, that.
I think I would have preferred Newman's Callaway Rabbit GTI turbo.
Having my former wife and my kids forced off the 405 freeway and over an embankment, going down a steep incline for about 60 feet into and thru a fence into oncoming traffic...yeah, I'm glad they were in a Volvo.
Only minor damage and after cleaning off the undercarriage, wheel wells and the engine compartment it was back on the road in a couple of days.
Maybe my other car, a new company issued Buick sedan, would have done as well in absorbing the impacts and protecting my family. but I doubt it.
@Panhandle Bob posted:Having my former wife and my kids forced off the 405 freeway and over an embankment, going down a steep incline for about 60 feet into and thru a fence into oncoming traffic...yeah, I'm glad they were in a Volvo.
Only minor damage and after cleaning off the undercarriage, wheel wells and the engine compartment it was back on the road in a couple of days.
Maybe my other car, a new company issued Buick sedan, would have done as well in absorbing the impacts and protecting my family. but I doubt it.
Maybe if your ex was driving one of those monster trucks, she could have just drove through it, back onto the road? 
I was a Volvo owner once. It was a 1984 240GL turbo, 5 speed. We bought it new because the wife wanted a safe car to drive. I had a single cab 1970 VW pickup and a BMW R100S motorcycle to get me around. It was a nice car and was fun to drive. Never had a problem with it. The only reason we sold it was to make room for a 4 wheel drive Jeep Grand Cherokee we bought to drive to a second home at Lake Tahoe. My Daughter also got the Volvo bug and bought one because of the safety factor and all the adds about safety crash tests. We had a string of BMW cars after that. Then came the Jaguar and today we have a Subaru Outback. I still have the 2000 jeep and my 2018 Honda Ridgeline, plus the hot rods and speedster. I truly am insurance poor .........
@Gordon Nichols posted:I guess you were never over-taken by Paul Newman in his race-prepped V6-Turbo Volvo 740 wagon on an interstate. A couple of hi-beam blips to let you know he's back there and approaching very quickly, you pull into the right lane and "Whoosh!"...... With a parting wave he was by and gone, never to be seen later on.
That thing had a twin-turbo V6 from a Buick Grand National in it — not necessarily representative of the marque or the typical owner.
As a matter of fact, I think that was the entire schtick — that nobody expected someone driving a Swedish brick would have an insane ‘murican nuclear power plant under the hood. I personally love that about the car — but the concept only works if the mill goes into something unexpected.
The Volvo was an unexpected recipient for the crazy-train engine precisely because “safety” was the selling point of the unmodified car… and maybe because the styling was “brutalist” (to be kind) or ugly as a mud fence (to be bluntly honest).
I had a terrible boss with a serious Volvo addiction, which was enough to put me off them forever, I think.
Had '70 145 B20B automatic. The fam wagon. Worked -- barely. It ate a cam lobe after a while, reportedly not uncommon due to some bad metallurgy somewhere. Actually on the lifters -- they were over hardened, too brittle. Long story. Rebuilt that engine, stock, using parts from a shop somewhere in Wash state that was totally in to Volvos -- probably still are. After my rebuild and swapping SUs for Strombergs (not much improvement) car worked more or less as intended. Then eldest son got his dr lic and I figured safety-first. How much trouble could he get in to? slush-O-matic that could hardly get out of its own way. He spun it out three hours after he got his adult Lic. Hopped a curb sideways on a wet road, blew out two tires, no other damage. Taught him a good lesson, no incidents since then, some 40 years later.
The old timers on here will remember "TC" or Tom Canty from Duxbury, MA. Last I saw him, he had a Karmann Ghia Rat Rod that was pretty trick, but his other car was a VW Beetle with a MOPAR 413 and a Torqueflite transmission that he ran at the New England Dragway.
I saw it once at his house - It was pretty radical. So was Tom, come to think of it.
Here's Tom in the middle, with Boston Bob on the left.
Last I heard, he had inherited the family place in West Palm Beach and retired to Florida.
Attachments
I followed all of TC's exploits in the past here. He did some interesting stuff.
It was very interesting to see a picture of him.
This is another fine example of thread drift. How far we are from convex mirrors.
I have convex mirrors on both sides of my Speedster.
@Michael McKelvey posted:I followed all of TC's exploits in the past here. He did some interesting stuff.
It was very interesting to see a picture of him.
This is another fine example of thread drift. How far we are from convex mirrors.
I have convex mirrors on both sides of my Speedster.
I had a convex mirror on the passenger side of my Volvo when I own it .......