Agreed Value Insurance

Well usually they are open to the replacement cost of the vehicle minus depreciation but as these cars go up pick a number that you can deal with the premium charged and increase the value.  If they don;t agree then you might need a price list from your builder and go from there.  It is called a form 19a in insurance terms, an agreed value contract like Hagerty.

Hi Bob,

I had Hagerty for many years, and they paid off the agreed value of $50,000 fairly quickly  and painlessly when I had a single-car accident that totalled the car.  You are likely aware that different insurance companies have different rules regarding parking overnight, annual mileage, and permitted vs. restricted types of driving.

I recommend that you determine the rules for each company you are considering, choose one whose rules you can live with, and follow them to the letter.  If/when any of us are involved in an accident, especially one with bodily injury, the last thing we want is to find out that our insurance company has refused to pay, due to the insured not abiding by the agreed rules. 

When you choose the company that works for you, please let the group know what factors contributed to your choice.  That's how we all learn.

With all cars I have owned with agreed value, I up the agreed amount a little each year. 4 different cars, 2 different insurance agencies, and never had a problem.

They may ask for current pictures but after that, all fine.

Worse case, they say no.

This is a good reminder to me. I've meant to increase my agreed value for two years and keep spacing it out. Spyders are going for almost double what I have my car valued at.

@Jim Kelly posted:

Hi Bob,

I had Hagerty for many years, and they paid off the agreed value of $50,000 fairly quickly  and painlessly when I had a single-car accident that totalled the car.  You are likely aware that different insurance companies have different rules regarding parking overnight, annual mileage, and permitted vs. restricted types of driving.

I recommend that you determine the rules for each company you are considering, choose one whose rules you can live with, and follow them to the letter.  If/when any of us are involved in an accident, especially one with bodily injury, the last thing we want is to find out that our insurance company has refused to pay, due to the insured not abiding by the agreed rules.

When you choose the company that works for you, please let the group know what factors contributed to your choice.  That's how we all learn.

That's why I quit both Hagerty and Grundy and now have a much more liberal policy with State Farm bundled with all my other insurance policies.

I, like Jim Kelly, have Hagerty agreed value on my Spyder. Since 2005. I wouldn't change companies. I've also steadily upped my coverage over the years, like Chris.

In 2006, I was rear-ended at a light while on a first date(after dinner thankfully, and yes there were many more!). Hagerty paid, no problem.

A few years later(2010?), the left front corner was clipped by some moron in a restaurant parking lot. The car was parked all by itself away from everyone and under a streetlight. Hagerty paid.

Fast-forward to 2016. I was cut off on an interstate on ramp, causing me to hit some Armco head-on at 60mph. Total loss, this time. Hagerty paid.

Last year, I added my Cayman to the policy. They will insure all Porsches now regardless of year, not just specialty, classic, or old cars.

I wouldn't change companies, they didn't quit me. And apparently I've certainly needed them. Every time, they were courteous, compassionate, and helpful on the phone.

My Grundy is coming up for renewal.  They have always been much less expensive than Hagerty.  I would like to change to Hagerty since they are a Michigan company with an office here in Ann Arbor and hold activities I might want to participate in.

But, I don't want to pay a lot extra for the pleasure.

I have Geico (American Modern) and  they have been great to work with. Price is below what I was paying with Hagerty, but do need to bump up agreed value from 50k with the price of a new build.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

My Grundy is coming up for renewal.  They have always been much less expensive than Hagerty.  I would like to change to Hagerty since they are a Michigan company with an office here in Ann Arbor and hold activities I might want to participate in.

But, I don't want to pay a lot extra for the pleasure.

Oh, but they have such a great magazine!

Yeah, that is an attraction.

At one time I was getting about 30 magazines a month.  Now it is fewer but it is still hard to keep up.  I have finally realized that I don't have to read every word of every magazine.

Vehicle Insurance coverage

"Agreed Value".... This is the coverage you want to have ....  Amount that is agreed to by the Insurance company's underwriter and you the vehicle's owner, that amount will be paid in the event of a major peril.

"Stated Value".....  Amount that you the owner states the vehicle is worth (this is a less costly premium) however, in the event of a major peril the insurance company will investigate the  current market value for your vehicle and their payout to you will more than likely be less than you anticipated.

As the vehicle owner you have first rights to purchase the car back from the insurance company at 20% of the pay out. Example the insurance company pays you $40,000, they will retain the $20% ( $8,000) and cut you check for $ $32,000.  The insurance company then issues you a Salvage Title for your vehicle, upon completion of repairs you are required to present the vehicle to your state's DMV for an enhanced safety inspection and if.... it pass's your state than issues you a " Rebuilt Vehicle Title"

A little known fact:  Some insurance companies will not insure a "Branded Rebuilt Vehicle" .  Those that do will only pay out 50% of the Actual Cash Value (ACV) as the retail value for a Rebuilt vehicle is greatly diminished.

@DannyP posted:

I, like Jim Kelly, have Hagerty agreed value on my Spyder. Since 2005. I wouldn't change companies. I've also steadily upped my coverage over the years, like Chris.

In 2006, I was rear-ended at a light while on a first date(after dinner thankfully, and yes there were many more!). Hagerty paid, no problem.

A few years later(2010?), the left front corner was clipped by some moron in a restaurant parking lot. The car was parked all by itself away from everyone and under a streetlight. Hagerty paid.

Fast-forward to 2016. I was cut off on an interstate on ramp, causing me to hit some Armco head-on at 60mph. Total loss, this time. Hagerty paid.

Last year, I added my Cayman to the policy. They will insure all Porsches now regardless of year, not just specialty, classic, or old cars.

I wouldn't change companies, they didn't quit me. And apparently I've certainly needed them. Every time, they were courteous, compassionate, and helpful on the phone.

That's great news. (All except the part about totaling your Spyder) I never had a claim with either of them.  I quit Haggerty because the wouldn't insure my classic bikes and moved to Grundy.  (I think they do now)

I dropped Grundy because I actually read the 15 pages of "small print" you have to sign when you renew and discovered, much to my chagrin, that 90% of the way I used my cars wouldn't be covered. Verified by a phone call to the company.

At the time, I used my cars and bikes pretty much as daily drivers in rotation. None of them more than 2500 miles a year, but I took them to work, the store, and just plain driving. Not covered.

I use them now in more traditional "classic car" sense, but it's not worth it to me to have a claim denied because my car got hit in a restaurant parking lot or at my complex parking lot instead of the locked storage stipulated in the Grundy contract.

@Alan Merklin posted:

Vehicle Insurance coverage

"Agreed Value".... This is the coverage you want to have ....  Amount that is agreed to by the Insurance company's underwriter and you the vehicle's owner, that amount will be paid in the event of a major peril.

"Stated Value".....  Amount that you the owner states the vehicle is worth (this is a less costly premium) however, in the event of a major peril the insurance company will investigate the  current market value for your vehicle and their payout to you will more than likely be less than you anticipated.

As the vehicle owner you have first rights to purchase the car back from the insurance company at 20% of the pay out. Example the insurance company pays you $40,000, they will retain the $20% ( $8,000) and cut you check for $ $32,000.  The insurance company then issues you a Salvage Title for your vehicle, upon completion of repairs you are required to present the vehicle to your state's DMV for an enhanced safety inspection and if.... it pass's your state than issues you a " Rebuilt Vehicle Title"

A little known fact:  Some insurance companies will not insure a "Branded Rebuilt Vehicle" .  Those that do will only pay out 50% of the Actual Cash Value (ACV) as the retail value for a Rebuilt vehicle is greatly diminished.

FWIW, State Farm required an appraisal as well as a visual inspection (and pictures) for my agreed value policy on the Spyder. Grundy and Haggerty only required pictures.

On the 968, SF just required pictures. (Probably because values are more well documented)

I have State Farm too. Grundy wanted 3X what I pay now and Haggarty didn't call back.... Because it is a replica

No restrictions for driving, I didn't have any formal appraisal and my Spyder is at $50K today. They did ask for pictures each request to increase.

Maybe it's local office?

I've got State Farm and need to raise my coverage.

@Chris MacDonald posted:

I have State Farm too. Grundy wanted 3X what I pay now and Haggarty didn't call back.... Because it is a replica

No restrictions for driving, I didn't have any formal appraisal and my Spyder is at $50K today. They did ask for pictures each request to increase.

Maybe it's local office?

Maybe it's a sign of the times. I originally got coverage for my STATED description "Porsche 550 Spyder replica" back in 2005. Also, regulations change from state to state.

@Alan Merklin posted:

As the vehicle owner you have first rights to purchase the car back from the insurance company at 20% of the pay out. Example the insurance company pays you $40,000, they will retain the $20% ( $8,000) and cut you check for $ $32,000.  The insurance company then issues you a Salvage Title for your vehicle, upon completion of repairs you are required to present the vehicle to your state's DMV for an enhanced safety inspection and if.... it pass's your state than issues you a " Rebuilt Vehicle Title"

Not necessarily. Hagerty took between 10-15%, but as I said that may vary state to state. I kept the car registered and insured, and rebuilt it. Haven't changed anything on any paperwork. I think it was smart on my part to continue to pay registration and insurance.

@Chris MacDonald posted:

I have State Farm too. Grundy wanted 3X what I pay now and Haggarty didn't call back.... Because it is a replica

No restrictions for driving, I didn't have any formal appraisal and my Spyder is at $50K today. They did ask for pictures each request to increase.

Maybe it's local office?

With my SF, it’s not so much a mileage restriction as with other policies, just a rate provision. I have the second cheapest of 2500 miles/year. IIRC, the next one up, 5,000 miles/year, was almost double the cost. The lowest one 1,000 miles/year, was only a little cheaper.

Insurance, it's only worth the expense for GOOD coverage if you need it.

My Hagerty policy for my Spyder is now around $550 a year for $38k coverage. I added the Cayman last year for about $400. Two cars, agreed value, no deductible, and flatbed towing for under a grand per year. Good deal in my book. Since I'm retired, EVERY time I drive it's a pleasure drive: no more work, car cruise/show, etc. Yes, we have a truck that is my DD, a requirement for Hagerty.

I dated a woman who had the highest level of coverage Nationwide had to offer on her house. You should have seen how nice the rebuild was after the fire...in the end, it was worth it for the coverage she had. It's all about the risk/benefit ratio.

I don't worry about theft, vandalism, or crashes. That's what insurance is for, and thankfully I am with a reliable company. Thanks, Hagerty!

Hagerty's insurance cost is directly related to the agreed value and the annual mileage you expect to drive.  Given the replacement cost of my car I chose $65k in agreed value and IIRC 5000 miles annually, which pushed the cost over $1k annually.  That sounds high but I pay $900+ for a 10-year old BMW from State Farm.  My wife's 1-year old Subaru cost more to buy than my BMW but insurance is less.  State Farm didn't have an explanation for that.  Given the level of service I've always gotten from Hagerty I am sticking with them.  And then there's that magazine...

The reason: BMW parts are more expensive than Subaru parts, plain and simple.

Insurance on my 2005 Audi was more than the 2009 Dodge truck. Same reason, common and/or domestic is cheaper than European$$$$ cars.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Hagerty's insurance cost is directly related to the agreed value and the annual mileage you expect to drive.  Given the replacement cost of my car I chose $65k in agreed value and IIRC 5000 miles annually, which pushed the cost over $1k annually.  That sounds high but I pay $900+ for a 10-year old BMW from State Farm.  My wife's 1-year old Subaru cost more to buy than my BMW but insurance is less.  State Farm didn't have an explanation for that.  Given the level of service I've always gotten from Hagerty I am sticking with them.  And then there's that magazine...

Have you ever asked you SF agent about similar coverage for your toy? Not all states offer it. I lucked out and moved to Utah 6 months after they opened up AV policies for hobby cars.

Might save a bit on a bundled policy.

I did when I got the Speedster (2006) and they did not offer coverage for it.  I'm quite happy with Hagerty on the toy now.

I've had great service from Hagerty on several different cars over 15 years.

Last week I touched base with Hagerty with a question about replacement parts and the agent took the initiative to suggest raising the agreed upon value by $10k.

They asked for pics for the original policy but none for the increase in coverage.

I am not doubting Alan's 20% buyback provision for the insured to purchase your totalled vehicle from the insurance company.  That may be true in general, but be aware that % varies.  Not sure if the variation is a creature of state law, or if the % has changed over time.  In my case, Hagerty paid me $50K in late 2020, and offered my salvage rights for $4500, or 9% of value.

Anyone care to share their knowledge or experiences with American Collector's Insurance? They seem to have reasonable rates, but am wondering if they will come through should the need arise.

Some of the West Coast knuckleheads might recall a discussion at our Cruise in SLO last month. The subject was insurance stated value adjustments due to the recent ridiculous prices for replica sales at BAT and other platforms. Anyway, I finally got the proverbial "round two-it" and called my insurer (State Farm) to request a significant increase in the stated and replacement value of my 2008 VS speedy. To my pleasant surprise, all they're requiring is my completion of one form ("Antique/Classic/Replica Valuation") and current photos of the Engine Bay, Interior: Seating and dash, and Exterior: Front and one side - Rear and other side.

My Broker/agent told me he had checked with State Farm's Underwriting Department and "there should not be a problem" with my increase request. I should know within 10 days of submitting the required info. - that was yesterday, July 6th. I figure it won't hurt that State Farm has bundled 3 cars + my home insurance for the last 11 years and I've yet to file a claim...and that's through a relatively major earthquake (6.1 Richter), 3 MAJOR calamitous wildfires, and one "almost bought-the-farm" incident (see attachment).

If they do renege on the "...not a problem," however, I'll definitely be checking out Grundy and Hagerty.

I liked your comments but maybe I shouldn’t have . Good that the car survived that one .

Paul, glad you snuck away from that one...coulda been a doozy!

IIRC, Grundy is usually cheaper but REALLY restrictive on usage, Hagerty is more flexible. I checked them both out in 2005.

@Napa Paul posted:

Some of the West Coast knuckleheads might recall a discussion at our Cruise in SLO last month. The subject was insurance stated value adjustments due to the recent ridiculous prices for replica sales at BAT and other platforms. Anyway, I finally got the proverbial "round two-it" and called my insurer (State Farm) to request a significant increase in the stated and replacement value of my 2008 VS speedy. To my pleasant surprise, all they're requiring is my completion of one form ("Antique/Classic/Replica Valuation") and current photos of the Engine Bay, Interior: Seating and dash, and Exterior: Front and one side - Rear and other side.

My Broker/agent told me he had checked with State Farm's Underwriting Department and "there should not be a problem" with my increase request. I should know within 10 days of submitting the required info. - that was yesterday, July 6th. I figure it won't hurt that State Farm has bundled 3 cars + my home insurance for the last 11 years and I've yet to file a claim...and that's through a relatively major earthquake (6.1 Richter), 3 MAJOR calamitous wildfires, and one "almost bought-the-farm" incident (see attachment).

If they do renege on the "...not a problem," however, I'll definitely be checking out Grundy and Hagerty.

Oh yeah....I also sent my Broker/Agent a copy of Greg's (VMC) current Speedster Turnkey Quote Worksheet with everything on my Speedy checked on the Options list ($49,226) + the sound system (deck, amp, speakers) I've had installed ($2,000). It's hard to believe an "as-is" replacement would COST over $50,000, but the recent sales on BAT and other sites do confirm this is a valid number to work with.

@DannyP posted:

Paul, glad you snuck away from that one...coulda been a doozy!

IIRC, Grundy is usually cheaper but REALLY restrictive on usage, Hagerty is more flexible. I checked them both out in 2005.

I, too, looked into their coverages and costs about then. I'm thinking, though,...what with the recent extraordinary amounts paid for well maintained low mileage used cars, these insurers have adjusted their programs to keep up with their competitors doing the same. If State Farm comes through, though, with a reasonably priced and acceptable (by me) stated value increase, I'll stay with them and not go shopping. Being "bundled" as I am, I know it would be a royal PITA to parse out the individual policies and probably not be a good financial decision. I've already made enough of those over the past 60 years and don't really need anymore added to my CV.

@IaM-Ray posted:

I liked your comments but maybe I shouldn’t have . Good that the car survived that one .

Screw the speedster. It was insured! What about me?

Stated value is not the same as agreed value.  We want agreed  value on our Speedsters.

@Napa Paul posted:

Screw the speedster. It was insured! What about me?

Sorry, I did not realize you were in the speedster at the time. Wow.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

Stated value is not the same as agreed value.  We want agreed  value on our Speedsters.

In the discussion with my State Farm Broker/Agent re. increasing their insurance payout coverage for my speedster if it is "totaled," I continued with the process (photos, Valuation form, current build Worksheet, etc.) ONLY after he confirmed such a payment would be the amount I've stated and supported with documentation, and agreed to by State Farm.

In other words, I state my valuation and after State Farm reviews my supporting information, they will either deny my request and I'll look elsewhere, come up with another figure and I decide if it's acceptable or not, or they agree to my valuation and amend my existing policy accordingly. I believe the last option, indeed, to be "stated value" the same as "agreed value."

@IaM-Ray posted:

Sorry, I did not realize you were in the speedster at the time. Wow.

I was...and it was one helluva three-second ride: a 270 degree spin on Hwy-1 along the northern California coast near Fort Ross in 2012.

I sure was glad I had the AAA Platinum card....even though it took the tow truck an hour to get to my location.

Fortunately, I didn't soil myself. At least that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Paul,

I'm sure you're aware that negotiations between you and your insurance broker are not what determines your coverage.  Your coverage is determined by the the language of the policy.  If you have any doubts about your type of coverage, check to see how value is determined.  If it's determined by "stated value or actual cash value (ACV), whichever is less", then ACV, i.e., depreciation, will lower your payout, and you have a stated value policy.

Agreed value is what you will be paid by the insurer in case of a total or theft.  Despite your semantics above (which may be satirical), agreed value and stated value are much different.

@Napa Paul posted:

In the discussion with my State Farm Broker/Agent re. increasing their insurance payout coverage for my speedster if it is "totaled," I continued with the process (photos, Valuation form, current build Worksheet, etc.) ONLY after he confirmed such a payment would be the amount I've stated and supported with documentation, and agreed to by State Farm.

In other words, I state my valuation and after State Farm reviews my supporting information, they will either deny my request and I'll look elsewhere, come up with another figure and I decide if it's acceptable or not, or they agree to my valuation and amend my existing policy accordingly. I believe the last option, indeed, to be "stated value" the same as "agreed value."

That’s not how it works. Alan covered it above. An agreed value policy you’re insured for a figure regardless. That’s why it’s more expensive.

@Jim Kelly posted:

Paul,

I'm sure you're aware that negotiations between you and your insurance broker are not what determines your coverage.  Your coverage is determined by the the language of the policy.  If you have any doubts about your type of coverage, check to see how value is determined.  If it's determined by "stated value or actual cash value (ACV), whichever is less", then ACV, i.e., depreciation, will lower your payout, and you have a stated value policy.

Agreed value is what you will be paid by the insurer in case of a total or theft.  Despite your semantics above (which may be satirical), agreed value and stated value are much different.

This is what I just received from State Farm:

Paul,

Our policies are agreed value, here is the State Farm definition:

“When the agent recommends antique or classic car insurance based on eligibility, the insured and State Farm® will agree on the value of the car. If the car experiences a covered total loss claim, State Farm will pay the agreed-upon value, rather than the actual cash value of the car as long as there is no prior damage to the car, parts have not been removed, and the car's condition has not deteriorated because of abuse or neglect.”

Now, all I'm waiting on is the premium quote to continue with my existing policy at the higher valuation.

State Farm's definition of an agree value policy aside, an agree value policy pays the covered amount in case of total or theft.

When SF says  above " . . . and the car's condition has not deteriorated because of abuse or neglect", that's depreciation.  A true actual value policy has no provision for depreciation.  The agreed value is the amount the insurance company pays.