Anyone know of a source ? Have any of you ever installed them ?...........Bruce
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I’m running limebug on my wide body and I believe James Rudland is running EVO
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Look up @MangoSmoothie.ca
Bruce, please don't turn your Spyder into a white-trash ghetto machine.
Then again, if you keep adding/changing things you'll probably never actually get it finished from Greg. Whatever, dude.
Carry on.
@DannyP posted:Bruce, please don't turn your Spyder into a white-trash ghetto machine.
Then again, if you keep adding/changing things you'll probably never actually get it finished from Greg. Whatever, dude.
Carry on.
I don't know that I've ever considered @MangoSmoothie.ca, @Carrozzino, or any of the other guys that have air suspension on their cars white trash kind of people nor have I considered their cars ghetto machines. What ever happened to the big tent we can all fit under? Or is it a big tent we can all fit under as long as you approve? Or is it because.......gasp....a spyder he's modifying?
Ha Ha..........You guys make me laugh a lot. Sometimes I don't get it but that's OK too.
Absolutely not ! This is the answer to putting bags in my Spyder ! Actually .....I have been thinking of a trailer that is like a "Low Rider". One that will lower completely down to the ground so that I could drive the Spyder on to it such that it would hardly be noticed that it's over a trailer. Then raise it. I've been using my scale model Spyder to play with a "T" trailer but scrapped that Idea. The Spyder is about 5' wide. That gives me 1.5' on each side to incorporate air bags and linkage and stay inside 8' wide. perhaps do it all in aluminum.
This is how I put myself to sleep at night !...............Bruce
@aircooled posted:Ha Ha..........You guys make me laugh a lot. Sometimes I don't get it but that's OK too.
Absolutely not ! This is the answer to putting bags in my Spyder ! Actually .....I have been thinking of a trailer that is like a "Low Rider". One that will lower completely down to the ground so that I could drive the Spyder on to it such that it would hardly be noticed that it's over a trailer. Then raise it. I've been using my scale model Spyder to play with a "T" trailer but scrapped that Idea. The Spyder is about 5' wide. That gives me 1.5' on each side to incorporate air bags and linkage and stay inside 8' wide. perhaps do it all in aluminum.
This is how I put myself to sleep at night !...............Bruce
Take a look at Futura Trailers. They have a pulley system that is used to raise and lower the trailer right at the hub. They used to use winch cable but have switched to, I believe, nylon rope. I'm not sure why because I would think that with most people storing trailers outside the cable would last longer but I'm not an engineer just a guy who sees all of the trailers rotting away in the storage yard where my trailer is stored.
Robert, I was half joking. Don't be so serious, dude.
It's a Spyder thing for sure. And no, I don't consider Mango's car trash at all. His car is tasteful in every sense of the word, even with bags.
But you know, chrome wheels, spinners, LED/neon underlights, and slamming to the ground kinda is trashy, don't ya think? You know that tacky Spyder Greg did with the box of Monopoly cash in the the frunk? THAT!
Bruce, I've seen trailers that drop to the ground and have no need for ramps, then lift up and drive away. I can certainly see you building your own with your skillset.
I like that Futura trailer.
Thanks for the sources guys ! The Futura and Ocala trailers are sort of what I have in mind. Specifically, I would like a trailer that will lower like those, be specifically designed for the car it will haul, be lighter, single axle, no brakes, cheaper and simpler to operate.
Thought some of you would get a kick out of my "T" trailer scale model for a Spyder photos. Scale: 1 to 18..................Bruce
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Wow. That Futura trailer is (a.) VERY trick and (b.) VERY well thought out.
A place for everything (even seldom used features) and well executed so that people who only trailer occasionally will feel comfortable getting loaded and underway, Safely.
Puts my old trailer to shame (and that was a very good trailer, too!)
I still haven't figured out how the Futura actually runs the front of the bed up and down. Hydraulic? Cables? Hoonery Magic? I dunno......
@aircooled posted:Thanks for the sources guys ! The Futura and Ocala trailers are sort of what I have in mind. Specifically, I would like a trailer that will lower like those, be specifically designed for the car it will haul, be lighter, single axle, no brakes, cheaper and simpler to operate.
Thought some of you would get a kick out of my "T" trailer scale model for a Spyder photos. Scale: 1 to 18..................Bruce
What's supporting the front end of the Spyder Bruce?
The Futura trailer uses a drop axle system. I found this website which shows the underside of the trailer so you can get a better look at the pulley system and the axles in the raised position. https://www.rockstrailersales....0lower%20or%20raise.
@Gordon Nichols posted:Wow. That Futura trailer is (a.) VERY trick and (b.) VERY well thought out.
A place for everything (even seldom used features) and well executed so that people who only trailer occasionally will feel comfortable getting loaded and underway, Safely.
Puts my old trailer to shame (and that was a very good trailer, too!)
I still haven't figured out how the Futura actually runs the front of the bed up and down. Hydraulic? Cables? Hoonery Magic? I dunno......
The front of the bed is just pivoting on the trailer ball. The magic all happens at the axles. Here's the website for the company but the one I linked in my response to Bruce shows the underside of the trailer and the cable system. The rear pivots the most and the forward axle pivots some and all of that is held up by the trailer ball.
@aircooled posted:Thought some of you would get a kick out of my "T" trailer scale model for a Spyder photos. Scale: 1 to 18..................Bruce
That trailer looks like what was once used for dragging around a sand rail. I guess you could weld a bit of channel, or whatever, on the front beam to support it and to slide up onto it. I think that could totally be done.
Unfortunately, The Spyder is SO low that that bit of channel would be SO close to the ground. I made some tow points/tow bar attachments to the two front frame tubes. I hit them on the road every so often.
I had two 1/18 scale Spyders before I even ordered my actual fake Spyder.
Very neat engineering. I daydream about adapting a small boat trailer to carry a Spyder. All-up weight under 1800 pounds, I could see an aluminum T with a front crossmember added to carry the deck.
To make it kneel for loading, how about this: mount the axle and suspension through a C channel running upside-down under each side. Leaf springs are held at each end with a piece of box steel that fits in the channels. The steel has rollers ahead and behind the trunions/spring bushings. There’s a cable attached to the axle that runs forward to a winch, and backwards to a pulley, then forward to the same winch. You pull four bolts, crank the handle one way, the axle rolls forward uuntil the tail sits down. Lock it there, winch the car on, then unlock and crank the handle the opposite way until the backside lifts and the holes line up and you put the lock bolts back in.
Robert........The front of the Spyder is supported by a concave roller in the center on top of the top tube. There would be a pin to secure the roller to that tube.
Carlos.......I was thinking about mounting a ball bearing roller that retracts up into the car just in front of the torsion tubes of the front axle. This way it's out of the way when not in use. Perhaps use a screw type electric linear actuator to retract it up out of the way.
The mystery for me is how to make the trailer "kneel". Airbags with a cantilever suspension perhaps ? Or maybe just a simple bell crank ? Maybe it's possible to just use airbags hooked up directly. They seem to collapse in and onto themselves.
I haven't watched this, Bruce, but here's a guy with a bagged trailer project on YouTube.
Those vids—and that project—are the bomb.
Problem with most trailers that you drive on is that you cannot open the doors without hitting the trailer fenders ,
Maybe not as much problem with a 550 as it has short doors or you could jump over the door ! ,
@JMM (Michael) posted:I haven't watched this, Bruce, but here's a guy with a bagged trailer project on YouTube.
Here's part 2:
JMM Michael.............Thank you so much ! This is what I had in mind totally ! I thought the trailer wheel spindles didn't need to be hacked up units made to fit but that';s a small point. I hadn't thought about the critical issue of caster, camber and toe in either since it is not a straight axle trailer.
In one of the comments, a guy suggested installing a piece of chain to limit the suspension travel in the event of an air bag failure. I think this is a good idea too. It would create a constant rattle but that's ok. Perhaps if it's not rattling you better look in your rear view mirror ! Ha ha ...............Bruce
Early 2002 & 2003 I sold a lot of new open deck car trailers out of my home in PA . The best & easiest trailer to load a car on was one with minimal moving parts. A deck that pivoted up and down when loaded or unloaded ( teeter - totter ) it didn't need ramps except with a low car like the speedster.
I’ll be that guy. I don’t understand all this need for complexity in a trailer. Just more stuff to go wrong. I’ve trailered thousands of miles with VW drag cars on 3 different open trailers, one a store bought twin axle car trailer, and two home built trailers, one single axle and one twin axle. Never had a problem loading or unloading. No need to over engineer a trailer.
@LI-Rick posted:I’ll be that guy. I don’t understand all this need for complexity in a trailer. Just more stuff to go wrong. I’ve trailered thousands of miles with VW drag cars on 3 different open trailers, one a store bought twin axle car trailer, and two home built trailers, one single axle and one twin axle. Never had a problem loading or unloading. No need to over engineer a trailer.
Dude, you can’t just have some cheapo flat trailer pulling behind your million dollar Prevost. More is better. Everyone knows that! 
@dlearl476 posted:Dude, you can’t just have some cheapo flat trailer pulling behind your million dollar Prevost. More is better. Everyone knows that!
David, keep this up, we will be back to the AeroVault! 
The trailer thing is like anything else. Simple improvements go a long way to make them better, but go past a certain point and the thing is less than the sum of its parts.
Where that line falls is anybody’s guess.
I have a single axle utility Carson trailer with 2x10 plank floor and 16 inch sides ,
works great for VWs , 356s , little Fiats and stuff like that ,
plus you can attach plywood to the sides if you have to move "stuff"
its too narrow to take a Wide body 356 or wide body 911
if I was going to build another one I would put sockets for stake bed sides like on trucks ,
And yes having a utility trailer gets you a lot of requests to help people move !
PS , and when Bruce starts building trailers I would have him build me one too 
To illustrate Al and Rick's point - like a lot of people, I bought a $1000 16 ft utility trailer with a wooden deck, and began wishing for more features. I used that trailer for a lot, and wore it out. I took some traded some work for it from a sub, and went on the hunt for the perfect flatbed.
I ended up buying a 16 ft, dual axle Texas Rollback trailer. It was really neat - it had a sliding deck, where the axles locked into place but the deck moved back about 4 or 5 ft and then dropped to the ground so that the approach angle onto the deck was 4 deg. Then you would reverse the process with the vehicle on the trailer, strap down, and head down the road. I used it for hauling my car and my scissor-lift. The trailer only weighed about 1200 lbs, and had an aluminum deck. I had to give $5000 for it, but it was soooooo sweet.
... until the roller apparatus started to rust and the emergency brakes didn't want to hold the axles, and I pulled something too heavy (a scissor-lift) onto the deck with it cantilevered out one too many times and bent the subframe. That perfect trailer became the bane of my existence, and I began to wonder how I was ever going to get rid of it.
Thankfully, it was stolen from behind my shop.
I replaced it with two trailers - one to haul the scissor-lift and forklift and one for general utility and my car. The car trailer is just an Aluma all-aluminum tilt-deck with 4ft of additional ramps. The approach is really low, and the trailer only weighs 750 lbs empty. I bought it just before Covid sent trailer prices through the roof, and I still paid $6500 for it. It's nice, but my town doesn't like trailers stored outside and I ended buying a 4-post lift to store it on. I use it very seldom, and I'm getting kind of cold on hauling my car around rather than driving it. I use the Diamond C scissor-lift trailer 10x for every time I use the Aluma.
Don't even get me going on enclosed trailers (which I've had a couple of). Everybody thinks they're going to use the heck out of their box trailer. My second trailer was a 24 ft v-nose with dual 7000 lb torsion axles, 7'6" clear inside, heavy-duty fold-down rear door, white lined interior, and diamond-plate on the nose. It stood over 9 ft high and was like pulling a tall-ship with the sails unfurled. Last summer, I pulled that thing to Cheyenne, WY full of some of my sister's household stuff (they moved there, for some reason) with my Ecoboost F150 and got 6 mpg for 1000 mi. and never got into 8th gear (with a 10 speed transmission). I left it in Denver for my son-in-law to sell - I really didn't want to drag it home.
In 10 years of ownership, I hauled my '63 panel-van to SLC and back one time (which was even more exciting than the Cheyenne trip) and used it to move 3 or 4 different family members. It was FAR more useful as a stationary storage shed (which again, my town doesn't approve of). I didn't even have plates on it for 5 years. Unless you have a 3/4 ton diesel, you're fooling yourself that you'll pull your car and have a cheap hotel room along the way. You could put yourself up in a 4-Seasons for what you'll spend in fuel. If you race, you might use it - otherwise... you're aware you have to store this thing somewhere, right?
The moral of the story?
Just drive your car to your venue, or rent a car-hauler from U-Haul. If you move cars for a living (@Robert M), you get a pass on your $50K trailer - but for the casual user, you could hire Robert to pick up your car and meet you at an airport on the other side of the country every year for the rest of your life and be money ahead.
Stan...........You've convinced me to go back and re-look at an aluminum "T" trailer once again. You reminded me that I have a storage problem once again, that is important in my case. So I'll get out my little scale "T" trailer and Spyder and start playing around with that again. If I can get it right, it will be really simple. Yes, there's nothing under the front wheels when it's loaded so it looks weird but it sure eliminates a lot of trailer weight. The other requirements of single axle, no brakes, built for specific use and easy load could be met with a "T" trailer........I hope
The nice part is I can stand it up against my garage where nobody can see it when it's not in use
Imperial.........Thank you for your kind comment !
@aircooled Imagine if you will, a semi-modified T-trailer with a design sort of like the trolley design my trailer uses to help with stability. Along the rail that you plan to have the front of the car slide along attach a cross member with plates that will accept the front tires that you could lay straps over and secure the tires to. This cross member would slide back to the back of the rail where the rear tires will be so when you bring the car onto the trailer the front tires pass over the rear plates onto the front plates. Then as you bring the rest of the car onto the trailer the cross member slides forward along the rail until the rear tires rest in the rear plates and then secure the rear tires in place. Just replace the round rail pipe with square tubing and it would be strong enough to hold everything in place.
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@LI-Rick posted:I’ll be that guy. I don’t understand all this need for complexity in a trailer. Just more stuff to go wrong. I’ve trailered thousands of miles with VW drag cars on 3 different open trailers, one a store bought twin axle car trailer, and two home built trailers, one single axle and one twin axle. Never had a problem loading or unloading. No need to over engineer a trailer.
Until you get $2 million Porsche Carrera GT without a front axle lift system and the front splitter is just 2.5" off of the ground and it sticks out nearly 36" from the front of the wheel and you're trying to load it on a standard car trailer with a 14° load angle. The load angle on my trailer is only 4° and I even have to do some shenanigans to make sure it doesn't come in contact with anything. And that car is stock. The other cars that give me fits are the Ferrari 488 Challenge cars and the Porsche GT2RS Club Sports. Those cars have an even longer splitter and they sit even lower. I had to buy some Race Ramps and build some wedges to get those cars onto my trailer and it's already the lowest in the industry with the exception of the Futura.
Otherwise I agree with you. If a standard trailer with no fancy features will suit your needs get it. It will be less expensive in the long run, will be easier to maintain, and will depreciate less over time as well. It will also be easier to sell when the time comes, and that time will come.
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@Robert M posted:Until you get $2 million Porsche Carrera GT without a front axle lift system and the front splitter is just 2.5" off of the ground and it sticks out nearly 36" from the front of the wheel and you're trying to load it on a standard car trailer with a 14° load angle. The load angle on my trailer is only 4° and I even have to do some shenanigans to make sure it doesn't come in contact with anything. And that car is stock. The other cars that give me fits are the Ferrari 488 Challenge cars and the Porsche GT2RS Club Sports. Those cars have an even longer splitter and they sit even lower. I had to buy some Race Ramps and build some wedges to get those cars onto my trailer and it's already the lowest in the industry with the exception of the Futura.
Otherwise I agree with you. If a standard trailer with no fancy features will suit your needs get it. It will be less expensive in the long run, will be easier to maintain, and will depreciate less over time as well. It will also be easier to sell when the time comes, and that time will come.
Your trailer makes sense when you are hauling expensive cars as a business. No one here is doing that. We are hauling around $30-75k cars. Your tow rig costs more than than the cars we are hauling.
My current trailer is a 7x16 enclosed that I had built with a 5’6” interior height. Works great for towing my motorbikes, and should work excellent for my Spyder.
@LI-Rick posted:My current trailer is a 7x16 enclosed that I had built with a 5’6” interior height. Works great for towing my motorbikes, and should work excellent for my Spyder.
If I ever do an enclosed trailer again, it'll have dropped torsion axles, and be no more than 5'6" inside. I'd love to keep the entire rig below 7 ft rolling down the road. 16 ft long would be perfect but, 7 ft wide would be tighter than I'd like (for a speedster). There's no need to go to 8'6" as I had. 7'6" - 8' would be perfect.
I've had two trailers.
The first started life in the 70s as a single axle Formula Vee trailer. The guy I bought it from extended the steel runners where the tires go and hauled old VW buses with it(overloaded for SURE). Since it was originally built for FV, the axle is about a foot closer to the rear which really helps for tongue weight and tracking.
I got it from him and rebuilt and refined it. First thing: new springs and a 4" drop axle. Then rewired it completely with LED lights and a ground to each fixture rather than relying on the trailer frame. When replacing the axle I added self-adjusting electric brakes. I added 6 foot aluminum ramps that self-store at the rear under the car. I also added a removable hand winch so that loading door/fender interference is a non-issue.
I used this for my Spyder and it towed effortlessly behind my Audi Allroad. The trailer weighed 700 pounds all-up including a spare. I sold it to Lane and he used it for his Beck Coupe. I've since done the driveway, no more mud. With the Spyder on it I was at 2200 pounds. I am a BIG fan of trailer brakes They really help, especially if your tow vehicle is light duty.
I bought a used Dodge truck and new enclosed trailer in 2020, just before the prices went crazy on everything! $5300 for the new trailer, you can't do that today.
It's a V-nose 8.5 x 16. I wish I had gotten the lower interior height(not really), but it's not too bad. I get 15mpg with the truck alone, but about 8mpg towing. I've done the math and a diesel would be better. But the number of miles I actually tow wouldn't make the value equation worth it. I occasionally wish I'd bought the 20' length, but not often.
I painted the interior, installed a bench/cabinet and added 12v power with a deep cycle, an inverter, and a 12v remote winch. Last summer I added a 10,000 BtU heat/AC unit. I also installed an electric tongue jack and a wireless camera on the back of the trailer transmitting to the dash radio screen. Those two things make life VERY easy. Two spares, a fire extinguisher and a first-aid kit add to safety.
I know my tie-downs are overkill, but the car is supposed to stay in place even if the trailer flips over. I'm sure mine will.
I sleep in this at the track, either on a cot or an air mattress. It holds my Formula Vee, all the spares(EZ-up, tires, parts, cooler, folding table and chairs), and I strap a rolling tool cart to the sidewall. The only thing I'd change is to insulate the interior. If you get a trailer, I'd highly recommend removing the interior wood, insulating, and installing a thermal barrier. Then spray foam the floor from underneath. That would make it more comfortable as the heat/cooling isn't very efficient as is.
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And now I'm ready to move Danny's first trailer on as I no longer have a need for it. It's in perfect mechanical shape and I plan to clean it up this week and maybe put a coat of paint on it. I also bought a nice trailer dolly to make it easy to pull around in the driveway, which will go along with it. If anybody here is interested, PM me to discuss. Once I finish the cleanup and paint, I will list it in the For Sale forum as well as a couple of other places.
@Stan Galat posted:I ended up buying a 16 ft, dual axle Texas Rollback trailer. It was really neat - it had a sliding deck, where the axles locked into place but the deck moved back about 4 or 5 ft and then dropped to the ground so that the approach angle onto the deck was 4 deg. Then you would reverse the process with the vehicle on the trailer, strap down, and head down the road. I used it for hauling my car and my scissor-lift. The trailer only weighed about 1200 lbs, and had an aluminum deck. I had to give $5000 for it, but it was soooooo sweet.
... until the roller apparatus started to rust and the emergency brakes didn't want to hold the axles, and I pulled something too heavy (a scissor-lift) onto the deck with it cantilevered out one too many times and bent the subframe. That perfect trailer became the bane of my existence, and I began to wonder how I was ever going to get rid of it.
@Stan Galat I've been using this for years for the cars. Volvo xc90, Minivan, Audi TT, BMW wagon, the donor VW, GTO, large 0-turn mower all loaded with ease. Pulling with the Cummins 3500 is no problem.. pulling with the Frontier... let's just say the truck/trailer combo needed more brakes.
I've also pulled 40' enclosed 'over bed' goosneck with F350 (7.3 powerstroke) & a 36' travel trailer.. so, I''ve pulled some bigger trailers as well.
I've used smaller enclosed 5x8 with 5' roof and 7x14 with 6'6 roof.. with regular F150.. there's a huge wind drag difference between the 2. the 7x14 did have less impact on the MPG of the Cummins than the F150.
@aircooled my .02...Keep it simple as possible, small as possible and by default it will be as light as possible and you will enjoy the trailer more. ramps are simple, & may not weigh as much as all that sled trickery. again my .02 (pre-covid, now worth about .002 ) or go for cool sled and the challenge of making it work.. I'm up for offering "advice" on designs as a engineering experience. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Make no mistake, Wrenn - my problem with the KwikLoad was self induced by storing it outside and using it to move the scissor lift
… but once I tweaked it, it was not all that awesome. Fixing it was going to be a real treat. It really was a blessing when it just wasn’t there one day.
@Stan Galat posted:my problem with the KwikLoad was self induced
Oh, I didn't miss that.. just chose to let that dog sleep. The brakes on dad's KwikLoad need some attention.. but will note, 3500 DRWL Ram is not bothered much.. the no longer around Frontier, very bothered. It did the job, but I probably should have used the Ram. It helps greatly to pull with the correct vehicle as you know. Your limo can pull your speedy & trailer (in presidential style).. but we both know a 3/4+ ton truck/suv/van would be way better in those 'hilly' situations.
Now back to Bruce's trailer... Sir you may find that a little to tongue heavy with the rear wheels of the spyder right over the axle.. maybe just move it back so the trailer axle is closer to leading opening of the rear fender? I don't know the total weight distribution.. but you don't want to get too much weight on the hitch. (speaking from experience... it's really uncomfortable as well.)
The aircooled Spyder has 45/55 F/R weight distribution. The car balances right about where your butt sits in the seat. The tongue weight was perfect with the trailer wheel right at the rear opening of the doors.
I can't imagine the Subaru Spyder has much of a different balance point.
My tongue weight was right around 220 pounds(10%).
I hope this helps, Bruce.
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