Air ride systems in Speedsters?

Anyone have any experience with putting an air ride system in a Speedster? I think I want to try this for my upcoming build. Any personal stories of doing this would be appreciated. I'm looking for a full system implemenation with FB-SS but I have a feeling that the front does not have much room to move at all.

In my experience, the way the fronts tie together, if you try to run S-S you get some heavy binding. In the systems we've used (Airkewld/Air Ride Technologies), I would also recommend the 4 valve system. What I experienced was that with the 2 valve system, air would bleed left to right and the body roll was ridiculous on hard corners. Other than that, keep in mind that with a standard style VW front beam, as you change height, you also change the entire suspension geometry, so once you align you'll need to pay attention to what pressures and heights you were at, or you'll never drive with a true alignment... All that said, in my honest opinion, air ride is neat for a show car, but I wouldn't put it on the street.

Indeed, I have noticed that just a small change in front suspension really affects the camber. I'm sure the same applies to the rear, but it seems more "exaggerated" with the front.

However, don't they make fairly reliable controls that can get you back to an even, expected pressure? I thought they had advanced far enough where you could get a consistent ride out of them.

i have air in my car. It's far from a daily, but as far as street driven - it's fantastic.

It's all custom build. The kits available are way over-priced for the parts you get.

bags can be had for $50-$60 each, pair of airshock for $80, compressor (very high quality one unlike the one in the kits) for $200, tank, lines, metal - depending on how creative you are can vary a lot (from <$100 to >$400.

air management is a big factor too. I run manual valves. they are cheaper, slower, but don't require power. solenoids can be purchased individually for <$20 (need 4 for front/back, or 8 for FBSS), or you can get fancy-pants manifolds. you still need fittings and at ~$7 a pop, they add up FAST because here are so many. Digital ride-height sensors and all that can be very expensive too. some of these guys don't think twice about dropping $1500 on *just* the air management.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=1055

If you buy a kit or get someone to do it for you it can run >$1500 for parts and who know how much for the install (it'll likely be custom unless you want an ugly install). it goes up from there.

I have a hybrid torsion/airbag setup that i have to say is damn near perfect. Super stealth install (you can only see the tank gauge under the front hood, and dual needle gauges beside my steering column) drops uber low on torsion adjustable bars (F/R) and this is where i aligned the car. Biases up a solid 6" to not scrape my car on speed bumps or driveways. with about 30psi in the car, it's ~1" from bottom drop (still really low), but rides like a cloud.

Fantastic pictures! You're implementation is exactly what I have in mind. Just enough for the speed bumps and driveways while still adding a little "cool" factor.

Do you have a link pin in front? IRS rear?

ball joint and IRS.

narrowed 3.5" front, 3" rear.

I agree. Air ride gives you the best of both worlds. Cool stance and great ride and handling. Like suggested earlier, go with the 4 valve setup. I did it the cheaper way and installed air shock on the 4 corners. I wanted rear air bags but not all the fabrication. As a safety precaution, set the rear height at the lowest driveble position utilizing your torsion bar. The front, get a adjustable front beam again utilizing your torsion bars. This way if a shock or bag blows you can raise the front up using the adjusters and still drive.

I opted to go with a partial kit from Summit. As the price were to expensive. Mine is a simple compressor, tank and manual valves to the air shocks.

another tread https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=16900

hey Ben - have you tried removing the nuts that hold the center adjuster solid, but leaving the allen screw in? This gives you full range of motion (without fighting the torsion bars), but also the safety of torsions if you blow a bag/shock.

i'm currently running a puma beam (that i built) with the center tosion mounts fixed (nuts done up), but i ran without them for a few weeks and was shocked at the range of ride height. It went from nearly on the ground to full height. must have been 8". it rose / fell super smooth too.

oh - your car is also BADASS :)

Awesome! Another great set of pics. Would you mind sharing the Summit part number you used for your system?

I think Carey said it all.....if you want to show it, airbags are fine. If you want to drive it hard I personally think airbags are a hazard. I took a brand new 4 valve Air Ride system off my chassis after watching what happens to the toe in on the front end running the system from full up to full down. The toe in varies by nearly 1/2"... I don't want to be going 100 mph when something causes the system to go up or down...and oh by the way, where are the adjusments anyhow at the ride height right now? I took it off and sold it......I don't need the problems the changes in geometry the ever changing ride height can bring.

That said, the Mangomobile looks great in the low position....so does Ben's.....

Mango, I'm actually running the front beam with just the top adjuster, I took out the bottom one. I did try that but I didn't like the fact that the torsions are basically floating in the housing.

DS, I don't have a part number any more but they were something like these.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FIP-2219/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FIP-2265/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FIP-2178/

I originally started out doing only the front, without a tank, just the compressor. Later I got a tank, switches and gauge and did the rear.

this one has a tank. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FIP-2168/

I don't have a part number for the shock either. You can checkout monroe shocks. Measure your low and high then match that up with the correct length of shock. Also take note on the different mounting styles. You may have to invert the shock to minimize any clearance issues.

I actually started out wanting the air ride for height clearance under the car. ie steep driveways and speed bumps. but I was surprised how the car handled. Lower center of gravity = fun on the twisties. At everyday ride height the ride is pretty smooth. Lower the rear and get negative camber for the turns, Raise the rear and get positive camber and stiffer supension for the burnout. Raise it just above positive so when the car squats you get the tire contact with the road.

I understand that air ride is not for everyone but for me, it suits my needs. ummmm I mean desires.

Carey is correct. You'll need to drive the car a little and play around with what pressure your ride height is at. ie turn radius. Then get your alignment done at your ride height.

Monroe MA756 for ball joint front ends. You invert them, remove the busing and press in your stock shock busing. i converted to 1/4" lines in the front for speed. the 1/8" lines are very very slow.

Jim - having a two stage setup is the best of both. It's completely on torsions (just like everyones) with no air. Get it aligned there and your off to the races.

I've seen those body-dropped setups on mini trucks and wonder what would happen if you burst a line or a compressor broke. you'd essentially drop to the ground and cause an accident if you were moving.

Good stuff Ben!
I'll be moving back home to Hawaii next month and may pick your brain on the topic...

Also, what headlights are those?

Yeah, I'm curious about the lights too. Almost look like something you'd find on a modern Jaguar . . .

I think those are headlights from a Mercedes Benz.

Hey Bill, no problem. pm me when you get back and we can hook up.

Yes, they are mercedes lights.

The air bags in the rear of my MB E320 wagon just let go on Friday morning...big POP and then hissing and the car was right down. One side then the other. Luckily it happened in drive way the day after we returned from a 3,000 km round trip to Alberta. Wonder what would happen if they let go at 130 or 140 on a packed snow covered highway?

Now I'm looking for replacements but hopefully not at "stealership" prices.

Bill
Moving Back to Hawaii?
Why you leaving VA?