Airbags?

Anyone have any first hand experiance with Airbags on our (or bug) cars?

I doubt that they could be fitted. First, the use an accelerometer to determnine when to fire, and the logic has to evaluate other factors such as weight in the seats, speed, and direction, so the control system is not simple. Second, they fire with a LOT of force - enough to kill children in some cases - and the body structure must be designed for them. This is not a do-it-yourself job.

Sorry, I'm talking off Airbag suspension...

I have done airbag suspension on a few beetles and one of our spyders. What would you like to know about it?

How does it handle during spirited driving?
I like the idea of being able to raise my lowered car over BIG speed bumps or steeper driveways.

B

Oops. my bad.

I'll direct you to my ex, she is the best representation of an air bag there is !

Good one!

Of course, there is always our drug-addled gas bag....Rush!

I just heard a commercial in which he called himself the center of the radio universe. My immediate thought was "Yeah, like a black hole - infinitely dense."

The major sign of immaturity is thinking oneself is the center of the universe. Well said, Lane and Gordon. Alan, ditto that, you crack me up.

Regards airbags and "spirited driving"....I am of the opinion that airbags and spirited driving are mutually exclusive. I bought a chassis for my speedster that was completely renovated and with a full airbag system. I ran the chassis up and down a few times, noting the front toe in would vary by nearly a half inch from full up to full down. I also noted that my system's computer contolled ride height by bag pressure alone, suggesting that ride height would vary by loading alone. I didn't much care for the thought the computer might well do "adjusting" while do "spirited driving".

I removed the entire system and sold it several months ago, and put the suspension back to a more traditional lowered approach.

I think airbags are just fine for show or impressing your friends by setting your car on the ground. Spirited driving, not so good.....IMO

Amazing how air bag suspension turned into a political discussion.
I do agree with Jim, air bags on a VW or repli-car and spirited driving don't go hand in hand.

To add fuel to the fire:

Rush may think of himself as the center of the radio universe but at least when he broadcasts, he tell's it like it is.

People, you're being led down the socialistic/Marxism trail and you have your eyes wide "shut" WHY?, because you've been spoon fed BS that this guy is your messiah. If anything, religious in nature, he's the devil in moderate disguise.

Our self anointed King is an "I" person. Virtually everything he says is "I" did this "I" did that "I" am taking control of GM etc. etc. Realize this, HE acts as if he owns these companies, I got news for you, the King or the Government doesn't own anything, WE, the people, OWN these companies. WE THE PEOPLE are paying for the bail out, not the KING or his court.

You're allowing him to run your lives without even thinking once that everything he gives away has to come from someone or someplace.
You've placed your hopes and dreams in he hands of man with only a few days worth of experience in the dark world of politics. During those few days, he readily got them dirty with dealings in Chicago, ACORN, his blatant lie's about his dual citizenship, his defiance to openly quell rumors that constitutionally he's not authorized to be President, his lies to Bar association that he never used an alias name etc etc

You openly pounded on President Bush, It's now your turn to get the crap beat out of you.

In conclusion, have you ever seen a car with airbags that have collapsed? It's not a pretty sight and it's far more common than having a torsion bar or spring break under load. My suggestion is don't do it.

Unfortunately when the HOT air escapes from the DC airbags - we all are caught in the downwind breeze and have to suffer the clean up! So much for retirement before age 75!

How about air shocks vice the air bags for our cars? I used them on the rear of a '72 VW Bus that I hauled camping gear in and occassionally towed a light sail boat with. I could adjust the rear height by adding air to a valve --- but I'm sure they could be plumbed to a small 12v air pump too. Since shocks seem to be superficial on Speedster (suggestion is to used cheapest oil filled ones) that might be alternative. Adjustment seemed to be limited to about 2".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C53XC0

Years ago, I installed air shocks on a Karmann Ghia. In turn, I re-adjusted the torsion bars to make the car sit lower in its natural state. This effectively lowered the car without air in the shocks and raised it to normal ride height with air in the shocks. (with a great deal of modification, I also installed them on the front beam but I had to cut the beam and weld in an adjuster so I could lower the car but keep the same number of torsion bars in both beams

What a waste of time and money. One of my more stupid moves. As Jim pointed out in a post above. The suspension alignment changes as the car goes up and down.

In the case of you using them for increased load, well, that's what they were designed for.

Larry, very well said, oh and the air bag info was good too! ~Alan

I am equally disgusted with both sides of the political spectrum, and I think the whole lot - Republicans and Democrats alike - should be canned. It'll never happen, tho'. The majority of the populace does not have the stomach for it.

I also can't stand the demigogues on either side, like Limbaugh and Olberman. A pox on both their houses!

I sure sound cynical today, don't I.

Now back to our regularly scheduled car talk.

Sorry for the slow follow-up, I am just back in from the UK and playing "catch-up" at the shop.
Most everything has been said. We have used 2 valve systems and 4 valve systems. The 2 valve is really just for show cars. It allows air to transfer side to side and it is nearly impossible to balance that car out, or drive while holding an alignment. The 4 valve system is better, and you can set your alignment at a specified pressure, balance the car out, and enjoy it somewhat, but even then it is best for the show and not for the go...

Thanks Carey, Jim, Larry, or was it Larry, Moe and Curley, the boys have kept me entertained while you where gone...

Not true. I have air shock in the front and rear. What is the first thing you'd do to improve handling. Lower the car. Just for fun on turns I lower the cars ride height, and let me just say that a lower center of gravity does help quite a bit. The advantage to doing an air ride system is you get pretty good performance while not having jaw wrenching stiff torsion bars.

Now for the straight line stuff. With the lower stance the rear has a negative camber. Raise it up for a slight positive camber. Now acellarate hard and the tire is in full contact with the road, thus giving you the most traction.

Now for the bling bling part, Lower stances to me look much nicer. Just adjust the front and rear torsions lower. Rides like stock, Put in air and you can firm up the ride, and change the stance. Roll over speed bumps and steep driveways without worrying.

I don't even know if airbags could be fitted into a speedster. I think this would be a major ordeal. You would have to put in a different steering wheel & who knows what else. I know they stopped importing some cars to the USA because they did not have airbags & the cars would need a major overhaul to accomodate them. The manufacture decided it would be better to avoid the North American market altogether as opposed to re-doing the entire car. I don't even know if it will make the speedster much safer? Obama really needs to address safety requirements & importing laws in my opinion & start letting up on the import regulations. Most of them are hogwash anyway.

LOL David - see post #3.

Back to "air bag suspension"

Yes, you can alter the ride height and as such, if you have a swing axle you can change from negative to postitive camber but, it's still air as your means of suspending the car. As you change the ride height, not only do you change the camber but you also change the toe in or toe out. This can make your car very un-nerving to drive and, if you run into an emergency situation and forget to change the ride height it can cause a loss of control.

Some race cars experimented with ride height altering suspension however, toe in, toe out and camber adjustments altered themselves accordingly when the ride height was changed.
Most race cars gravited away from this form of suspension due to its complicated mechanism and went instead to manually or automatic wings to increase or decrease downforce.

In addition, if an air bag pops during a hard corner, consider yourself off the track/road and hopefully there are no tree's or barriers to bring you to a sudden stop.

I stand by my former statement. It's nice for car shows and going over speed bumps but in my opinion, it lends it self to being unsafe for spirited driving.

But, everyone has their own opinion, mine is just one of millions regarding this subject.

If they weren't safe, they would put them on new cars and busses which I think is more critical because they carry more passengers. My set up is not only suspended by air. I still have both front and rear torsions, just adjusted lower. As far a loosing control. You set up your alignment at your optimum ride height. This is the setting you'd be using majority of the time.

Not trying you convince you guys on anything but you should ride and drive in a air ride speedster. You may be surprised

Well I guess it is possible, but it would cost an arm and a leg to install. I say just be a careful driver & wear your seatbelt.

Ben, your car is sick!
By any chance did you live in Hawaii Kai?

Back when I was 17 had a '58 Impala with factory air suspension. Replumbed it so one could raise/lower either or both ends. Good when you high centered on manholes. I was a kid and it was cool. Handle? Don't think so Tim. Later in life had a MK VII Lincoln, factory air suspension again. Never ending source of leaks at the air distribution panel. Took the kids to play geologist one day. Left to come home and POP goes a front air bag, we're out in the boonies and a whole new meaning to lead sled. Nearest town had a Lincoln dealer with a service dept open on Sat. One night in a motel and ~$400 to the dealer later and we on the road again. Handle? It was a Lincoln, .5g lateral acceleration maybe. Am not an air bag fan. Pop an after market bag on a Speedie and you are where you are till FedEx drop ships the new one. Feel they are good for show cars and trailer queens, not so much the real world. "I'm just sayin"

I'd never get stuck like that. I'd just crank up my front torsion adjuster and I'd be back on the road.

No Bill, I live in kaneohe

Ben,

Love your seats. Your speedster mods are amazing.

Dave

Thanks, ditto.

I like this seat better