Almost got the shaft saturday

After a small event with Lane, Cory and Tereesa on saturday, just as I was pulling into my neighbourhood I heard a cha-tunk from the engine bay. Turns out that the shaft that runs through the alt and turns the cooling fans lost a nut and thus no belt drive to cool. I reinstalled the belt and nut, but the "inside" pulley off the alt seems to have more play in it than I would prefer. How does that pulley come off?. Will shimming take care of this?

Need at least 10 shims for the alt/gen pulley.

When you say "play" I suspect you mean play on the shaft. That's not what the shims are for.
If your nut came loose and walked off it gave the insde pulley half some time to wobble
and wear. Replace the worn part. The shims will snug everything together but it's not a substitute for a correct fit.--good luck

Check the keyway and key carefuly also.....

There is no movement of the shaft, just the second pulley on the shaft. Does the second pulley come off? If so, is it a reverse thread?

I assume you are looking at the pulley the belt rides in on the alternator....If so it is not threaded at all....However there is a key which allows the torque to be transmited from the pulley to the shaft....the pulley half should pull straight off....

Hope this helps....

Kevin, there's a slot on the pulley you need to put a standard screwdriver into in order to keep the pulley from turning while you loosen the nut.
As these guys said, there are shims behind that pulley which space it for the belt; if you take that guy off, you need to count the number of shims, or put them all someplace where they'll be together when you go to put them back on.
The slack you're speaking of is usually generated by the pulley halves being too far apart from each other; the valley created by tightening them together gets closer to tighten the belt and wider to loosen it. If you can push in a quarter-inch of play in the belt when it's cold, you'll be okay (the pulley is the slack adjuster, thinking in those terms).
I'd be more worried about the condition of the fan than the pulley. The pulley is probably okay, but the nut coming off the fan is a giant warning light. Check the center of the fan where the nut used to be to make sure the keyhole is intact and not roached. If it's screwed up, get a new fan. By new, I mean a real, honest-to-goodness VW part from a junker, not a reproduction.
If that part isn't in good shape, it won't matter what the pulley's doing, 'cuz your fan won't be doing its job. If the fan's off-center, you're out a very expensive fan shroud.

BTW, we had a GREAT time Saturday. Thanks for taking Teresa for a ride!

Great info, guys, but it kind-of beats around the real problem...

Kevin Wrote: "Turns out that the shaft that runs through the alt and turns the cooling fans lost a nut and thus no belt drive to cool. I reinstalled the belt and nut, but the "inside" pulley off the alt seems to have more play in it than I would prefer. How does that pulley come off?. Will shimming take care of this?"

OK, what happened is that the nut on the fan pulley wasn't tightened adequately, loosened and fell off. Along with that, I suspect that he lost a few (if not all) of the shims under bell spacer next to the nut and between the pulleys, but THAT's not his main problem, either.

His main problem, most likely, is that he's also loosened the inner pulley half AND lost the Woodruff key that holds it in position (alluded to by Leon, above), thereby allowing it to have the more "play" that he describes, so here goes, but bear in mind that this pertains to a T-1, although I'm pretty sure that the tolerances I give you work on a 356-cooling-style T-4, too:

It doesn't matter if you have a generator or an alternator, there is a Woodruff key on BOTH the fan end of the shaft and the pulley end of the shaft (you're FAN end should probably be OK). That inner fan pulley half should pull right off the shaft, thus exposing either the woodruff key or where it's supposed to be. If it's still there, make sure that it's positioned straight, not worn and that the corresponding slot in the inner pulley half center-hub is in good shape (not galled or worn wider than the width of the Key).

If everything looks OK, then put it all together again and do the following:

1. With a straightedge (I use a carpenter's square, but a yardstick or just sighting down the belt will do in a pinch), check the line that the fan belt will make between the inner pulley halves of the fan and crankshaft pulleys. It should be straight and not angled at all. If it is angled, then use shims behind the inner fan pulley half to get it straight.

2. Re-assemble the pulley halves with at least 10 shims between them and the fan belt installed. Use a screwdriver in the rim slot of the inner half to hold it fast (lever the screwdriver against the shaft) while you torque the nut to 40 ft-lbs, then rotate the crankshaft one revolution to settle the belt and then check the belt deflection - it should deflect 1/2" when pushed halfway between the two pulleys. If it deflects to a different amount, then add or remove pulley center shims to get it right: adding a shim makes it looser by about 3/16", while removing one makes it tighter by the same amount. REMEMBER!! Spare, unused shims are stored under "bell" spacer under the pulley nut and outboard of the outer pulley half so you'll have them later.

That's about it. It's time consuming to get the belt straight and to the correct tightness, but you only have to do it every year or so when you check belt tension. Just make sure that the nut is torqued to 40 ft-lbs., as there isn't any lockwasher under the nut and you don't want to lose it again ;>)

gn

BTW, Kevin: I know YOU don't need this level of detail, but others on here might benefit from it....

Gordon: Excellent tutorial, MGM. In all my years of dealing w/ these systems, I have never heard of or thought about shimming behind the fan pulley to be sure of having the belt run straight and true between the pulleys -- they do indeed need to be lined up parallel. I'll check that. Good tip.

Gordon, Great explanation !

I am on a search for more shims... I only found three in the engine bay so far. Thanks for idiot proof walkthrough. I will be calling you when I screw it up.

C.B. Perf. sells kits for shimming the pulley into the correct position and also to adjust the width of the pulley.(belt tension)

If you think THAT's good, you should see me explain bit-level error correction on computer storage devices......

God! I'm glad I don't have to do THAT anymore!!

Cars are MUCHO more fun!

Kevin: You should be able to get some shims locally - people usually have extras kicking around - I do, but they're in New England, so ask around the Chas'tn VW club......

gn

od, talk to Ken Erwin. If he doesn't have something, he can usually point you in the right direction.

Geez, Gordon. It's funny you mentioned your former occupation, 'cuz I'm having a devil of a time with bit-level error correction right now!
Dang good explanation. I completely forgot there was a Woodruff key on both ends. Three cheers for the idea of a forum!

Thanks for the tip today Gordon, sorry to bother you on Christmas Eve day. Good news and bad news, Gordon suggestion on how to get the grove key set works, bad news I did a whole lot of work for nothing. Turns out that the reason that the nut shot off had to do with the nut being stripped and not the groves key (although there is a chance that the wobble effect put too much stress on the nut).

I am not sure how to make this thing work now. I am going to have to either tap the nut or find a replacement. I don't think my shaft has been harmed, but only time will tell. I still do not like the amount of play in the inner pulley and may just replace the whole thing since the out pulley will not set properly either.

Try that hardware store that you sent Lane and me to. They seemed to have a decent Metric hardware section.

gn

Have a "Merry"!