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The six month old alternator decided to go bad. It had been on the way to bad with showing me sometimes, the red charge light would not come on , before start up of my car, and there was no charging current to the battery when this happened. Intermittent , sometimes, the red light came on and charging worked, finally, no red light and nothing happening with the alternator.  I have dual carbs on my engine, like I think most have.  If you already know how to build a 356 Porsche engine you should go to some other post, as you already know what I am suggesting for the Beetle engine. This post is for those who have limited knowledge or have to do their own repair work.

 

It took me 40 minutes to get the alternator out of the fan shroud and I was wondering if there was some easy , low cost way to improve the way the VW factory installed the alternator, for future alternator replacement. I figured another 40 minutes to install the new alternator.  About two hours, normal person work time.   I used to work in a Porsche repair shop, so recalled the 356 engine has a neat way the engineers designed the "generator" stand. Now, they only had generators, but the concept here works for either generator or alternator removal from your VW air cooled type one engine.

 

Once the bad alternator was out of the way, I removed the four 8mm nuts holding down the alternator stand and removed the alternator stand. I removed three of the 8mm studs, which those nuts were on.  I left the rear one in the engine case, which is towards the center of the engine. See picture.  I did that to allow the gaskets under the stand to have something holding them in place. I cut one slot in the base of the alternator stand to allow the stand to slide into, not over, the remaining 8mm stud, left in the engine case.

 

This is basically the same design used on the 356 engines.  Porsche left the two rear studs in the case and used 8mm bolts, not studs and nuts, on the front of the generator stand.  I decided to only use one rear stud to help  align the gaskets. With the replacement alternator placed on the stand with the retaining strap tight enough to keep it together, but loose enough to allow the sheet metal and the alternator assembly to turn, as needed to line up the four 6mm holes which hold the sheet metal to the fan shroud. Then, placed the alternator/stand assembly into the fan shroud.  This requires NO lifting of the fan shroud, no removal of the dual carbs and I later realized I could have left the spark plug wires in place.  I did not have to remove any of the fuel hoses and did remove the wires going to the engine, as you have to, to remove the alternator.

 

This will cut the time you take or the time you pay your mechanic for labor in half, at least.  It will make my next alternator replacement go faster and with less curse words.  I am sure this improved installation, which follows what Porsche did on the 356 engine will greatly made your life better.

 

With the removed studs and the one cut slot in the alternator stand, I used   (3) 8mmX25mm grade eight zinc plated quality bolts with the German wavy washers.  Torque about 12 ft. lb. but you only need to have the bolts and one nut tight, not super tight. The lock washers will hold the bolts and nut in place. Don't over torque these 8mm bolts or the one remaining nut.

 

So, simple change in my engine alternator stand mounting.  I am going to do this on all my rebuilt VW engines as I hate the wasted time it takes to remove and replace any generator or alternator. This suggestion will also work not only on the speedster but perhaps a bigger time saver on the Spyder mid-engines.  I hope this saves you time in the future. Cost for the change was less than $5.00.  If this is not clear, the new set up will slide out of the fan shroud, on any dual carb engine and makes changing an alternator a much easier chore.  Just a side note-  I hear some shops charge $500 labor as they remove the complete engine to change out the alternator as the fan shroud will NOT clear most of the speedster bodies, so removal seems to be the normal repair method. With my suggestion, you do not remove the fan shroud or need to remove and replace the engine. Major time saver and should save all money, in any future alternator removals. I would charge only $75, labor, with this improved set up, if I was doing the work. 

 

Getting a new engine built for your Speedster or Spyder ?   Ask the rebuilder to do this simple modification and it will save you money and time, later on.  I rarely see any of the China made alternators lasting more than one year. Bosch only offers a one year warranty on their expensive NEW alternators.  I buy the lifetime warrantied alternators from places like Auto Zone or O'Reilly Auto parts. ---George K. ---

Keeping old VW's running like new .   Past National drag racing record holder.

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Generally when you do that modification, you'll want to add steel thread inserts in the case. The case material is quite soft and won't handle having bolts threaded into and out of it too many times before the threads fail. Due to the drilling and tapping required and the resulting metal shavings, I wouldn't really recommend doing so on an engine that's already built. That said, doing it without can still last a good while simply because of how rare R&R the alternator is on most cars and at worst, you strip the threads and have to add the inserts later anyway.

Read the part about using zinc coated bolts and perhaps anti-seize compound and low torque on the bolts. I really disagree with you saying the case is soft material. If so, it is impossible for one to use the original case, which is soft, to build up 400 hp turbo charged engines, like I have done and others do. We do add bracing to some areas of the case, but no heli-coils or inserts.

The only time one strips out bolt threads or pulls threads out of a VW case is due to the person, doing the work not knowing what they are doing. Not the fault of the VW case or any engine, alum. or cast iron or magnesium. When some ape like person or someone with air impacts puts together an air cooled engine, they are doing it wrong. VW and Porsche are well built and require someone with intelligence and knowledge and proper mechanic skills or the owner of the car should pay others, who have the knowledge and skills to do it right.

I make a lot of money from those who think being an auto tech person requires only being a drop-out from high school and only hands on experience. So, the owner "fix" their car. Then, it never runs right or the repair does not last long, so finally they bring it to me and I made money, thanks to them thinking they know more than the experienced and well tooled auto tech. Most of my work is to fix the improper work done by owners, their friends, their relatives, and their bad mechanics. I do appreciate the work and the money. Customer's , some whom have college degrees in mechanical engineering have failed to fix their own car. They give up and bring it to me and I fix it, right. ---George K.---
Originally Posted by Jim Kelly 2013 SAS coupe-Fiji:

In two of your earlier posts, you talked about running 10 lbs of boast in your turbo. I thought it was a typo, but maybe it wasn't.  My suggestion is that you forget the boast, and concentrate on the boost.

I regret that I have but one "like" to give for this comment.

 

Jim Kelly for president.

Just tell me the dates and record you have set with your VW or Speedster or any air cooled car or whose record setting car you have worked on which has current Bonneville records . I have never once claimed to be smart and often try to cut down on words. What you do not see is no responses I give to child like comments I read on this web site. I thought we were all adults here. What year were you one of the 600 contestants at the Final ET race, to determine the best ET bracket races for your entire State. You don't get invited unless you are good at racing your VW and have a consistent winning car. My son and I were the only VW's invited to attend the Finals in the State of Texas, with our little Beetles. We did not last long as the competition is the best at any State Final race, but were good enough to be invited to race at the meet. Money will not buy you an entry ticket. You have to be invited based on your past winning record.

If you read all the wordy post I write, you might learn something new, but I doubt it. One has to be open to old thoughts, which work. Move outside the USA for several years and you will learn people have to do with the old stuff as most cannot afford anything new, like American think they have to own. Most Americans are very narrow minded and think we know it all. I am sure the Germans would disagree with anything you might think of us as being smarter. I have sponsored high school students from various countries and all of them were 10 times smarter and better educated than the Americans. Look up the USA ranking in education then ask yourself, how smart can you be ? --George K. ---

I'm not sure if all of that was directed at Jim or me (or perhaps Justin?). But regardless, it doesn't appear that you want to address the base point-- and so we've looped around into the things you believe give your opinions more weight than anybody else's.

 

This is your tread, George. You get to be the king of it.

 

Using bolts to hold down the alternator instead of studs is a stroke of pure genius that only an SAE-certified, (former) record-holding bracket racing, VW shop owning philanthropist like yourself could ever have thought of. Suggesting that a guy might need thread inserts at some point, or that this might not be an original idea, or that you might dial the self-promotion back a bit just proves that nobody else really understands how perfect your methods are.

 

Sometimes it's lonely at the top.

 

Have a nice day.

Last edited by Stan Galat
Originally Posted by George4888:
I really disagree with you saying the case is soft material. 

Compared to the steel bolt it is. The yield strength of AS41 magnesium alloy is 20,300 PSI. The yield strength of an 8mm Grade 8.8 (Grade 5 equiv) bolt is 92,000 PSI and a 10.9 or 12.9 bolt is even higher.

 

For something that applies a lot of force, like head studs, using a thread insert provides a larger diameter of threads in the softer case material. This increases the available load capacity of the fastener vs having the stud being threaded directly into the case. An 8mm steel case insert with a 12mm OD is 2.3 times as strong as an 8mm hole alone.

 

But rather than overtorquing, which is always a potential issue but easily avoided if you just use the same torque values as before, what I was concerned about in this situation was galling or debris in the threads or damaged threads of the steel bolt causing damage to the softer case threads and wearing them out quickly if the bolt is inserted and removed many times. Hence why I said your method is still acceptable because you are unlikely to do that. Using a steel thread insert provides a thread surface less susceptible to that type of damage.

Last edited by justinh
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