Gordon, Brilliant. What do you make of this?
I'm going to give that a try...
Just so I'm clear on this -- while someone turns the key, I should be attempting to wrench the bolt clockwise.
Do you mean that, if your analysis is correct, the crankshaft bolt needs only to be put in slight clockwise motion to free things?
Or must that bolt be spun vigorously, like the crank on a Model T?
He said the oil light went on. I'm surprised it seized so quickly. When I used to go to Rod Runs sometimes they would drain the oil and coolant out of junkers and run them at a high idle til they froze. First time it took almost 45 minutes. Then they started running them WOT and it still took 35-50 seconds. It's almost like his oil pump drive sheared and locked up or maybe a chunk of gravel or a bolt got in the oil pump and jammed it. My money is on the oil pump. Cory I bet your engine isn't seized.
No...While someone presses and holds the clutch in, put a wrench or socket and try to turn the pully
Cory: DO NOT TOUCH THE KEY!
Just sit in the seat and push the clutch pedal all the way down and hold it there.
Then, have someone try to turn the big bolt on the crankshaft pulley (at the bottom of the fan belt). It may not turn, but give it a try.
Frank (fcopo) might be on to something, too.
Ahhhhh... Thanks for the clarification.
Won't touch the key!
Will try your solution in just a few minutes, Gordon...
Gordon
Excellent thinking, the engine seems to full of oil so it may be the tranny.
Cory,
Just let me know what happens and how I can help.
Cory...for clarification by pushing in on the clutch you are moving ( disconnecting) the clutch away from the flywheel. then trying to turn the crank pulley with a wrench you'll know if it's the motor of trans.
Meanwhile, I stand (figuratively) naked before you all -- on the scale of Those Who Wrench, I come in at a weak 2. Maybe.
My father bequeathed to me both his mechanical aptitude, and all of his tools: a pair of pliers, a tack hammer, and a butter knife. If he couldn't complete a repair with those implements, it lay unfinished.
I have endeavored to be better than he, and I hope that I am.
HOWEVER... I will surely make foolish statements here, and may ask for clarification of the simplest instructions. More than a quarter-century of being displayed on television for public scrutiny and criticism has ground off my ego pretty smoothly, so I can easily handle the occasional "What kind of a dumbass are you?" and even the stray "Maybe you'd be safer in a Miata." It's okay.
Thanks for everyone's help so far, and for the encouragement, too.
Keep the ideas coming...
Onward!
We will not close our eyes and ears to your neediness and certainly will not close our eyes to visualize you standing there, so to speak.
Did you get someone to engage the clutch?
Cory, don't be so hard on yourself. Not many of us can stand in front of a TV camera. I know at this time you are sick about your baby but I remember what the Click and Clack brothers said: Is it really a problem if you can fix it with money?
Fpcopo VS posted:Is it really a problem if you can fix it with money?
I really like that. I'll be appropriating this for future use.
Just because he's on TV doesn't mean he is made of money. If his engine is truly broken, or tranny for that matter, it's serious money. Especially for someone with limited mechanical experience.
He's got a wife and bills just like most people. This is quite possibly a very disappointing and expensive situation for Cory.
PaulEllis posted:Just because he's on TV doesn't mean he is made of money. If his engine is truly broken, or tranny for that matter, it's serious money. Especially for someone with limited mechanical experience.
He's got a wife and bills just like most people. This is quite possibly a very disappointing and expensive situation for Cory.
I believe Frank was just trying to humor up the place,
Stan! Sent you an unrelated PM.
crhemi (Bill) poboiinhawaii posted:Did you get someone to engage the clutch?
Home in about 15. Will do then!
I was trying to make Cory feel better. A broken car is bad but compared to bad health, marriage problems or problems with the kids, it is something that can be fixed with money. I was just trying to put things in perspective.
PaulEllis posted:Just because he's on TV doesn't mean he is made of money. If his engine is truly broken, or tranny for that matter, it's serious money. Especially for someone with limited mechanical experience.
He's got a wife and bills just like most people. This is quite possibly a very disappointing and expensive situation for Cory.
Thanks, Paul, but don't worry... All the jokes help take out the sting. Looking forward to our next meet-up!
Gordon Nichols posted:Cory: DO NOT TOUCH THE KEY!
Just sit in the seat and push the clutch pedal all the way down and hold it there.
Then, have someone try to turn the big bolt on the crankshaft pulley (at the bottom of the fan belt). It may not turn, but give it a try.
Frank (fcopo) might be on to something, too.
Negative. No movement. Dang.
Alan Merklin posted:Cory...for clarification by pushing in on the clutch you are moving ( disconnecting) the clutch away from the flywheel. then trying to turn the crank pulley with a wrench you'll know if it's the motor of trans.
Clutch in, no motion with wrench on crank pulley. Curses.
Cory McCloskey posted:This nut was so loose, I could turn it by hand. Did the trauma of seizing cause this?
That nut being loose would not have caused you engine to seize. There is a key in there that joins the pulley to the shaft so everything would still be turning. It shouldn't have been that loose but not what caused the problem.
PaulEllis posted:Cory, I have a stock engine you can borrow. My son and I are getting our cars ready for the Bugorama next weekend in Fontana or I'd help you pull your engine and put the stock one in just to get you back on the road.
I can deliver the engine to the shop you're using if that helps any.
Gesture of the year award right here folks.
Cory, Take a photo of the underside of the engine from the back so we can see if the engine has an extra sump. It might look like this (ignore those blue arrows):
You mentioned earlier that your dipstick reads full and you didn't see an oil spill below your car. IF your engine has an extra sump on it, it's possible the oil pick-up tube became disengaged and has fallen loose. If so it's laying on the bottom of the sump not picking up oil and sending it on.
Also, do you know if your engine has a full flow oil system and remote oil filter? It'll look similar to this:
Many times when these Type 1 engines are full-flowed and the external filter is added the screen is removed which could have allowed a large piece of debris to get entangled in the oil pump gears causing it to seize up and stop the lubrication process.
I have the thin line sump and the external filter on my car but I left the screen in place for this reason. Last night when I did my oil change I made sure to check the tightness on the pick-up tube, also for this reason.
Again, good luck.
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Robert M posted:PaulEllis posted:Cory, I have a stock engine you can borrow. My son and I are getting our cars ready for the Bugorama next weekend in Fontana or I'd help you pull your engine and put the stock one in just to get you back on the road.
I can deliver the engine to the shop you're using if that helps any.
Gesture of the year award right here folks.
Paul's a Prince, for sure, Robert!
No problem Cory, I'm just feeling your pain.
In reference to the oil screen, I use a "super sucker" which slides on the oil tube to screen any larger junk and it doesn't slow down the flow of oil. Really cool part that I recommend to others.
"Many times when these Type 1 engines are full-flowed and the external filter is added the screen is removed which could have allowed a large piece of debris to get entangled in the oil pump gears causing it to seize up and stop the lubrication process."
If you have a piece of something inside your engine big enough to stop the oil pump gears (and break the drive tang that goes into the cam gear slot) you've already got problems that having the screen in there isn't going to prevent. Just sayin'...
ALB posted:"Many times when these Type 1 engines are full-flowed and the external filter is added the screen is removed which could have allowed a large piece of debris to get entangled in the oil pump gears causing it to seize up and stop the lubrication process."
If you have a piece of something inside your engine big enough to stop the oil pump gears (and break the drive tang that goes into the cam gear slot) you've already got problems that having the screen in there isn't going to prevent. Just sayin'...
True.
I don't see any obvious signs of an oil leak. You're full flowed and you have a sump so my best guess, and be forewarned I'm a novice here, your oil pick up tube came loose and you drove around all day yesterday after your oil change and the little bit today without any oil getting pumped through your engine. If/when they had the big sump plate off they should have checked the pick-up tube for tightness. (I'm on my phone so I can't see if there is a drain plug or just the cover)
All good speculation but you won't actually know the cause until the motor is torn down. Might be a good idea to be there if possible. They'll first pull both valve covers and see if anything is broken there but with the motor seized onward......Drain the oil through some sort of filtering cloth looking for pieces of metal, pull exhaust, remove the motor, carbs, alternator, tins, fuel pump, distributor. remove heads, oil pump, jugs, cylinders, pistons, rods and open the case to access the crank, cam etc. I get the feeling the end play may very well be the issue.
Robert M posted:I don't see any obvious signs of an oil leak. You're full flowed and you have a sump so my best guess, and be forewarned I'm a novice here, your oil pick up tube came loose and you drove around all day yesterday after your oil change and the little bit today without any oil getting pumped through your engine. If/when they had the big sump plate off they should have checked the pick-up tube for tightness. (I'm on my phone so I can't see if there is a drain plug or just the cover)
Drain Plug
crhemi (Bill) poboiinhawaii posted:Robert M posted:I don't see any obvious signs of an oil leak. You're full flowed and you have a sump so my best guess, and be forewarned I'm a novice here, your oil pick up tube came loose and you drove around all day yesterday after your oil change and the little bit today without any oil getting pumped through your engine. If/when they had the big sump plate off they should have checked the pick-up tube for tightness. (I'm on my phone so I can't see if there is a drain plug or just the cover)
Drain Plug
Again, make sure you are there when they tear it down!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
):-[
Maybe not. If it was their mistake, like knocking the pick up tube off.
Alan Merklin posted:All good speculation but you won't actually know the cause until the motor is torn down. Might be a good idea to be there if possible. They'll first pull both valve covers and see if anything is broken there but with the motor seized onward......Drain the oil through some sort of filtering cloth looking for pieces of metal, pull exhaust, remove the motor, carbs, alternator, tins, fuel pump, distributor. remove heads, oil pump, jugs, cylinders, pistons, rods and open the case to access the crank, cam etc. I get the feeling the end play may very well be the issue.
Sigh... This teardown will certainly cost a ton.
Alan, what do you mean by "the end play may very well be the issue"?
The end play is the amount your crank shaft moves forward and back. VW wants it to be .005 and it is adjusted by three shims that go between the fly wheel and the end of the crank. They measure it and adjust with various thickness of shims until the reach the required. It needs to move a little but not much. The lose pulley bolt may be a symptom of an endplay issue.
There could be a number of possible issues with your engine but that doesn't mean you have to start from scratch. You'll probably need bearings which aren't expensive. Perhaps have the crank turned or even replaced. New crank is less than $300. Your heads are probably okay but new ones for your engine can be $800 depending on a lot of things, but your heads are probably okay. I think something when wrong with you oil pump, a pretty cheap item, But it's the damage the oil starvation may have caused that is key. Your case is probably okay. I'll bet most of your engine parts are fine so it's not like building a new engine from scratch. There has to a lot of care taken when assembling the block.
Cory, I have a DVD that shows the entire tear down and reassembly on a stock motor. It's the Bug me video. I'll loan it to you so you can get an idea of what is inside you engine. I wouldn't recommend trying this on your own, you don't have tools etc, but at least you'll get some idea of what is going on.
Like I said, you can slap a stock engine in there while your high performance engine is being repaired. You can take you time and still get to enjoy driving your car, though a little slower. The pictures indicate to me that you have a good engine (or had a good engine) You could spend a little more money and increase the power but reliability suffers to some degree.
If this engine was assembled correctly it had the pick up tube welded so it won't have slipped off.
Yeah, I was thinking that, too - I brazed the pickup tube in place on my engine when I built it up the second time.
The first time was when I bought it and because I was way too busy at work I had a long block built to spec. In THAT build, the assembler installed one crankshaft bearing wrong which caused the engine to seize after running about 3 minutes.
That feeling really, really sucks.
I rebuilt it myself with a complete set of new bearings and had the crankshaft polished where that bearing seized (I could easily slip it off after heating it with a propane torch) and it was good to go. At the same time I installed the deeper sump and welded on the pickup tube. Parts cost was around $75, Crankshaft labor at an engine machine shop was about $40 (it was in great shape) and my labor was free, although a local shop asked $200 to put it together for me.
As Alan and others have said, you won't know nuthin til you do a tear-down, which is no big deal for a competent VW shop and they should know to do all the stuff up above. It will be interesting to see what they find, and a lesson for us all.
Pop in the "spare" engine for a few weeks while the regular one gets rebuilt (Paul - that gesture was really nice), then swap them back. Dropping an engine and installing another one should take an afternoon and a six-pack.
And welcome to the "Dark Side" of the Madness......
Oh, and nice Pajamas, too.......
Too loose end play would explain why the crank fan pulley was loose. Regretfully it means main bearings and and case journals are bad. Align boring might save case. If bearing shavings got in oil and spread thru engine - much more is involved. Dis-aasembling the engine is 2-3 hour job. Its not hard but is messy. All parts need to be labeled as to where they came from. Some build a plywood table with holes to hold pieces with labels like cyl 1.
Lots of U-Tubes on disassembly.