DISASTER! &@#%£!!

Arrival at the Ellis compound...

Dropped off the case, crank, heads, jugs etc for careful cleaning and measuring. Looks like it was never balanced, so that will be rectified. The cylinders will be honed, and pistons and rings carefully cleaned and examined. We'll replace anything that is questionable and assemble very carefully. Cory will be there helping and learning, and of course taking pictures. He'll be back on the road in no time. 

Why would anyone not balance a motor!

Cory, if you liked the way it ran (unbalanced) before, you're going to love a balanced 2110!

PaulEllis posted:

Dropped off the case, crank, heads, jugs etc for careful cleaning and measuring. Looks like it was never balanced, so that will be rectified. The cylinders will be honed, and pistons and rings carefully cleaned and examined. We'll replace anything that is questionable and assemble very carefully. Cory will be there helping and learning, and of course taking pictures. He'll be back on the road in no time. 

I'm as happy as a tornado in a trailer park!

 Here it is, a beautiful Arizona Friday evening, and one week ago, my engine was cooling in the garage, just 120 yards short of its Saturday morning seizure. 

This week has taken me from despondency  to delight!

The work is just beginning, but I'm just so grateful. Grateful to Paul for his impossibly-kind offer to steer this near-tragedy back onto the road. Grateful to Doug Kingston for offering me a motor, if I'd needed it during my Speedster's down time. And grateful for all of you SOCers who are following along, watching or weighing in, enjoying this exercise in humanity as much as I am...

crhemi (Bill) poboiinhawaii posted:

Why would anyone not balance a motor!

Cory, if you liked the way it ran (unbalanced) before, you're going to love a balanced 2110!

Stop torturing me!

You do want it balanced, Cory. Not expensive. Big difference.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

You do want it balanced, Cory. Not expensive. Big difference.

Oh, yes... She shall be balanced! 

Gotta love Cory's attitude:

Hey, Cory!  Isn't Radiator Springs out your way?

Gordon Nichols posted:

Gotta love Cory's attitude:

Hey, Cory!  Isn't Radiator Springs out your way?

LOL Yes, it is, G!

'Mater there looks like he pulled up right behind my house!

al weidman posted:

I woke up this morning without any water. During the night my main water line at a elbow had broken. trip to Home Depot (26 miles each way) line repaired.  100 degrees outside so I thought I would come in where it's cool and read the whole thread.  Yes, this is an amazing group.  I have a 914 a boxster and a VS speedster and I love driving my speedster best.  Kirk built my car in early '89 and in the spring we picked it up.  My wife and I then drove the 550 miles to Oroville Ca. in a blinding rainstorm.  All we did was take a pair of socks and stuff one each in the upper left and right corner of the windshield (you know where I mean) and we were OK.  I have been blessed because in the 27 years I have owned and driven the car all I have done is put in an electric fuel pump and a master brake cylinder.  I have gone on tours, Monterey week and many car shows and cars and coffee's.  As all were mentally diagnosing the potential problem I was also trying to think what could cause such a sudden seizing.  About 1968 I was driving a '65 bus really hard coming back from a trip to Seaworld in San Diego, I spun the center main bearing and seized the engine.  Lack of oil seems to be something our engines cannot live without.  A lot of knowledge in this club and I have learned some today.  Good on you all mates. 

Al, it's good to see you on the forum.  Thanks for the conversation the other day. I spoke to your brother and have a great day!  

Anthony

As Stan and Bill (and others?) have mentioned, if it's not balanced now, it's a worthwhile step for a smoother running engine. Also, I mentioned the Hoover mods (here is the link again)-  http://bobhooversblog.blogspot...007/05/hvx-mods.html

The VW's lubrication system is barely adequate for a stock engine, and being an economy car, that's all it got, as any more machine work just added cost. Anyone who's taken apart a number of high mileage stock engines will attest to this, having seen more wear/galling on the right side rocker shaft and rocker arm bushings consistently.

When we modify these things for more rpms (and power!) these shortcomings become even more evident. The Hoover mods update the oiling system (VW used these same modifications on the type 4 and I believe the Wasserboxer engines) and help protect parts from some of the increased wear that normally happens with higher rpm's. The heads will run noticeably cooler (the big plus), valve spings will last longer, the rocker arms will have the proper full time lubrication they need and (I think) the lifter bores would wear less as well.

A lot of guys will tell you that they've built so many engines or been building engines for a long time and they've all survived without it, and to some extent they are right. It does add cost to the build (so it's a bit of a hard sell), it has to be done somewhat carefully, and you don't immediately see the benefits. They show up later, with the engine running cooler, lasting longer, and more parts being in better shape at rebuild time. Your engine would cost 5,000? $6,000? to replace- since it is apart at the moment, doesn't it make sense to take this one small step to help ensure it's longevity? Al

She's all apart, and everything's going to be cleaned up soon…

You can see evidence of silicone – that won't be happening again.

 You guys would love love love this shop! 

lots of good parts there!  looks like the rod bearings came apart fairly nicely.  was it a main bearing?  Anything obvious?  i saw the oil pump tang - that was the cause, but what gave way at zero oil pressure?

CE is a freaking GREAT shop!  you are in good hands.

MangoSmoothie.ca posted:

lots of good parts there!  looks like the rod bearings came apart fairly nicely.  was it a main bearing?  Anything obvious?  i saw the oil pump tang - that was the cause, but what gave way at zero oil pressure?

CE is a freaking GREAT shop!  you are in good hands.

 Thanks, Smoothie!

I'll let Paul Ellis answer regarding what gave way following the loss of pressure.

For a newbie like myself, this shop was more than impressive! 

 Can't wait to get these spic-and-span parts back to Paul's garage for reassembly! 

Mini wedge-ports. H-rods. One of the premier flat-4 machine shops in the US. And now, careful assembly.

You're hitting the jackpot, Cory. 

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Nowhere, USA posted:

Mini wedge-ports. H-rods. One of the premier flat-4 machine shops in the US. And now, careful assembly.

You're hitting the jackpot, Cory. 

Perhaps the failure of a $53 oil pump will turn out to be the best thing (long-term) for this motor, eh, Stan? I doubt that I would ever have embarked on an engine-balancing journey (I wouldn't even know it wasn't balanced!), so I'll put it all down to the good...

 

Look out for that Stan guy, Cory.

He's just trying to gain your confidence.

Soon, he'll casually slip in something like, "As long as you've got the engine out, now would be a great time to swap in a five-speed for that four-speed."

Or, "Bet you a donut there's enough room in those heads for a cool, twin-plug setup".

And if he starts talking about dry sumps, hang up the phone.

I wouldn't take any of his advice until your daughter's wedding is paid for.

 

Stan was spotted recently at a Cars & Coffee wearing his favorite shirt:

I have to defend my good buddy Stan here. He's always trying to
steer people to 2110's while telling cautionary tales of his own misadventures.

On the other hand, people like Marty and me set bad examples for poor unsuspecting folk like Joe Fortino with our endless upgrades.

Stan is the angel on the shoulder & I am the Devil. Just sayin'
>

Back from California, came in runner up in Sportsman Eliminator.  In reference to the main bearings, go back to the early pictures of Cory's tear down. You'll see a main that's cooked and broken. It seized, but the damage to the crank will probably polish out. I'll let CE guide me/ us in that regard. I don't really consider myself a builder, but rather an "assembler." Competition Engineering has always held my hand through the build process. They will measure the chamber volume, compute the compression etc etc. I'll do mock ups and verify everything is right and have them confirm it for me. They'll set end play for me because it is so important to get it right and it's easy for them. I'm pretty good at rocker geometry though.

I'm confident Cory's engine will come out really nice and strong.

Cory/Paul, are there many 90* oil fittings? Obviously eliminating those hard turns flows better for oil/cooling.

Good catch, we'll watch for that.

Almost forgot to congratulate Paul on "Runner Up" award!

No pictures?

My very first car, a '56 356 A Coupe had been terribly abused when I purchased it in 1966.  I lasted about another 400 miles, just enough to get me home from college.  Engine had to be rebuilt, and I spent all my summer earnings paying a VW/P guy to do it.  I insisted that all parts be balanced.  Nothing special on the rebuild -- it was a stock 1600 Normal and it was put back together that way.  That engine ran very well for the next several years, until the body pretty much totally rusted out.  That engine was as smooth as silk.  To me, balancing rotating machinery is not an option, it is a requirement.

Paul's too modest to post a picture, Bill! So, I'll do it for him! LOL he sent me this shot from Bug-o-Rama...

 

 Just spent an hour with Paul, talking about schedules and life and all good things… He is very keen to drop his spare motor into my girl while  we work on reassembling MY motor. 

 I resisted, initially, telling him that I had waited 33 years for this car, and another few weeks won't hurt me a bit, but he insisted, noting the glorious weather that has finally returned to Phoenix…  

How can I resist  that argument ?

So, looks like this hole ( that's a garage floor you see under the deck lid) will soon be filled with Paul's temporary 1600! I'll be logging some October miles after all! I'm so psyched! 

When a cop, retired or not, tells you what to do, you need to listen!!

Robert M posted:

When a cop, retired or not, tells you what to do, you need to listen!!

Indeed. Compliance is life.

Cory McCloskey posted:

El Frazoo posted:

Just checking in -- and so sorry to hear of this trouble.  Sure sounds like engine to me, although the exact root cause could be a few things.  Sounds like we are getting real close to a full autopsy here, so please do keep us posted.  I'm not sure if just the oil pump jammed, that it by itself would freeze the drive train, and skid the tires.  To me, the only thing that can do that is a frozen crank, or maybe a broke con-rod jammed into something.  Usually,, when that happens, it just pokes right through the Al case.  And usually, something like a con-rod coming unglued would be preceded by other much ugly noises.  Just sayin', as I don't really know shyt here.  Standing by to learn a lot.  And Cory, please do not sell yourself short on understanding what is going on here.  Yeah, there is stuff here you do not know, but I am certain you have the capacity to learn.  And you will.  Remember: ignorance can be fixed and is nothing to be ashamed of.  It is stupid that is forever.  And then of course there is true Madness . . .

Yes, @El Frazoo... True madness. 

Was I not warned? Had I not lurked here for 15 years? Did I not hear the cries of the suffering? Did I not read the anguished posts? Did I not shudder at the gnashing teeth of the camber-stricken? Did I not weep with the Weber-plagued? Did I not shake my fist heavenward alongside the victims of jumpy tach?

Were all of this true, then how could I have been snared? How did I set wrong my foot? 

DID I NOT SEE YOU PEOPLE WELCOME SO MANY "TO THE MADNESS"?

I can only internalize, and blame no one else. I knew the risks, yet here I am. 

I can only hold fast to this guiding proverb, and hope that it will inspire others to set forth on their own journeys:

"Until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore, you will never know the terror of being forever lost at sea."

 

Wait.  That's terrible advice.

That's madness for you... 

Amen.

 

I ran into this post while reading through the 7 (SEVEN) pages.  Is this not a record?  I'm still trying to catch up to see what the failure was.  Don't tell me the end, I have this recorded and haven't read the whole post yet.  

Cory McCloskey posted:

UPDATE ----  UPDATE  ----  UPDATE  ---- UPDATE

 The only owner newer to this group, I think, than I, might be Paul Ellis, since his Speedster just arrived on Sunday. Lucky for me, Paul lives here in Phoenix!  Today, on his own time, he stopped by the shop that is diagnosing my engine's problem. Paul has known for a long time the mechanic working on my motor, and Paul is also an accomplished drag racer in the Beetle world.  Like many of you, he knows his air-cooled stuff. 

 The mechanic gave Paul the lowdown on my situation, and Paul was able to snap some pictures, too. Many of you will know exactly what you're looking at. If you're like me, you might be wondering… 

  Assuming the pictures will post in order, the top photo should show the cam gear, the second the oil pump, and the third and fourth, the bearings… 

 After Paul sent me the photos, I called the garage. The good news is that the damage didn't get too far! The pump malfunctioned   because (I hope I'm remembering this right) the end of the crank wasn't extending far enough into the slot in the pump, therefore eventually rounding everything off so that it no longer operated the pump. Thankfully, I stopped the car in time to save any terrible wreckage.  Bearings and lifters will have to be replaced, and it looks like the crank can be polished. Probably won't have to be turned. 

Drum roll, please… 

$3,100.  Owwwwch.

 But here's where things get remarkably better: 

 I called Paul back, just to fill him in on what the garage said, and you know what this man said to me? 

"Crap. Have them box it up, and we can put it together."

I'm not kidding. That's what he said. And he means it. 

 So, I will gladly pay the garage for the work they've done so far, and I will also buy the necessary parts from them, but they understood why I couldn't pass up such a generous offer.  Paul is going to pick up my car and its guts with his trailer on Friday, and we will commence rebuilding next week!  I'm not yet sure how far into the $3100 I already am with the shop but, even if I'm already pretty far along, Paul is still going to save me a ton! 

For 2000 years, artists have been guessing at what Jesus looks like.   We won't know 'til heaven. Thankfully, we don't have to guess at St. Paul. That's him on the right in the last picture, on the day that I met him. 

 

Wow, frickin" wow.  Paul you are one incredible person.  Thanks Cory for sharing this with all of us on here.  Good luck learning about cams, push rod thingies and those crank rods(?) bars(?) shafts(?).  

Cory, let's try and not blow this one up...Just kidding.

Paul's a good man and it looks like you're in good hands. Hey sounds like an All State mercial. "Paul-State"

craig posted:

Cory McCloskey posted:

UPDATE ----  UPDATE  ----  UPDATE  ---- UPDATE

 The only owner newer to this group, I think, than I, might be Paul Ellis, since his Speedster just arrived on Sunday. Lucky for me, Paul lives here in Phoenix!  Today, on his own time, he stopped by the shop that is diagnosing my engine's problem. Paul has known for a long time the mechanic working on my motor, and Paul is also an accomplished drag racer in the Beetle world.  Like many of you, he knows his air-cooled stuff. 

 The mechanic gave Paul the lowdown on my situation, and Paul was able to snap some pictures, too. Many of you will know exactly what you're looking at. If you're like me, you might be wondering… 

  Assuming the pictures will post in order, the top photo should show the cam gear, the second the oil pump, and the third and fourth, the bearings… 

 After Paul sent me the photos, I called the garage. The good news is that the damage didn't get too far! The pump malfunctioned   because (I hope I'm remembering this right) the end of the crank wasn't extending far enough into the slot in the pump, therefore eventually rounding everything off so that it no longer operated the pump. Thankfully, I stopped the car in time to save any terrible wreckage.  Bearings and lifters will have to be replaced, and it looks like the crank can be polished. Probably won't have to be turned. 

Drum roll, please… 

$3,100.  Owwwwch.

 But here's where things get remarkably better: 

 I called Paul back, just to fill him in on what the garage said, and you know what this man said to me? 

"Crap. Have them box it up, and we can put it together."

I'm not kidding. That's what he said. And he means it. 

 So, I will gladly pay the garage for the work they've done so far, and I will also buy the necessary parts from them, but they understood why I couldn't pass up such a generous offer.  Paul is going to pick up my car and its guts with his trailer on Friday, and we will commence rebuilding next week!  I'm not yet sure how far into the $3100 I already am with the shop but, even if I'm already pretty far along, Paul is still going to save me a ton! 

For 2000 years, artists have been guessing at what Jesus looks like.   We won't know 'til heaven. Thankfully, we don't have to guess at St. Paul. That's him on the right in the last picture, on the day that I met him. 

 

Wow, frickin" wow.  Paul you are one incredible person.  Thanks Cory for sharing this with all of us on here.  Good luck learning about cams, push rod thingies and those crank rods(?) bars(?) shafts(?).  

@craig ! Isn't it an amazing tale?

 You only have 164 more posts to get through! 

The record is 21 pages, I think, for the infamous missing brass thingie thread.

Yeah, so Cory!    

If YOU come up with a Springie Brass Thingie during re-assembly, YOU might go beyond 21 pages, too.  

I don't, personally, recommend something like that, but there are some of us who do that sort of thing (although I could never point a finger, could I?)

Lots of things to do yet - Just take your time....And if a Brass Thingie jumps out of something......Find the damn thing!

Gordon Nichols posted:

Yeah, so Cory!    

If YOU come up with a Springie Brass Thingie during re-assembly, YOU might go beyond 21 pages, too.  

I don't, personally, recommend something like that, but there are some of us who do that sort of thing (although I could never point a finger, could I?)

Lots of things to do yet - Just take your time....And if a Brass Thingie jumps out of something......Find the damn thing!

Oh, believe me, Gordon...

I'm a deep, deep well of ignorance. My bucket descends WAY past the "normal" range, so, with re-assembly still ahead of us, this may, sadly, still turn out to be a record-busting thread. 

Onward!

You have truly been blessed in all this uncontrolled crazy Speedster madness, Cory! I can not wait to see the outcome (and pics - remember the rules)

*LongFella posted:

You have truly been blessed in all this uncontrolled crazy Speedster madness, Cory! I can not wait to see the outcome (and pics - remember the rules)

Thank you,  @*LongFella... I feel blessed, inDEED! SHOWERS of blessing (to quote D.W. Whittle)!

I hope to return the favor to as many as possible, as often as possible...

Two things: 

Though I'm probably an overboarder on photos, would someone please lay out for me the formal (or informal) rules on pics, relative to the mission upon which Paul and I will soon embark? Is it "the more photos, the better," or is it "okay, Eisenstadt, we all know what a torque wrench looks like"?  Just let me know.

Second, would someone please post the link to the "springy brass thingy" thread? I have a 5 1/2-hour flight tomorrow, and I should be able to put a dent in it by touchdown.

Will probably be next week before any real updates, but the next move will be Paul dropping his loaner engine into my car! It may happen while I'm gone! We'll count on him for photos!

Regarding the final project -- Paul and me getting my motor re-assembled and re-installed -- it's as exciting to me as the Voyage of Discovery must have been for Lewis and Clark!

I'm sure that Paul considers us to be more like Lewis and Gilligan... He's a patient man!

 

This one could still break the record by the time Cory's engine is back in the car.  I have my fingers crossed.

Anybody see a brass thingie go flying by?

Lane Anderson posted:

This one could still break the record by the time Cory's engine is back in the car.  I have my fingers crossed.

Anybody see a brass thingie go flying by?

Do you remember the name of that thread? Was it last summer?

How about a traveling "Brass Thingy Award" for the favorite mechanical misadventure of the year to be presented and handed off at the Carlisle dinner?