another overheating question

Hi,
been a while since i've been on the site but now that's it's summer with temps in the high 90's here i'm battling the overheating gremlins once again....have a 30 plus year old '77 Intermeccanica with a 1776 with 44 Webers, 044 heads, Engle 120 cam....sump, remote oil filter and a remote oil cooler in the left rear wheelwell....motor has around 2K miles on it...all of the cooling tins are in place...

after an hour of moderate driving without 'getting on it' in those temps the oil temp gauge reads around 220-225....is that normal? it runs 180-190 in 60-70 degree temps....and yes i did check accuracy of the temp gauge with a thermometer.....

i have read on this site that there should be a hole opposite the fan on the firewall....this car does not have one but the 'hibachi grill' on the rear deck lid has been cut out to allow air in....

anyway, are these temps normal or do i need to do more?
any suggestions?
thanks,
Frank

Guages will drive you crazy on a VW motor...I just use the lights.

Maybe add a thermostat controlled cooling fan on the external cooler.

220 isn't overheating.

Your oil really should be 180 plus to 220. This burns the moisture out properly. Some people like to see real low oil temps, but that's not good for the engine. Start getting concerned around 240 (assuming you have the proper oil in your car for summer).

Rule of thumb for air-cooled is to take the ambient air temp and add 108 degrees. That's roughly where your oil temp will run. If it's 100 outside, then your oil will normally run about 208. That's why choosing the proper oil for the air temperature is especially important for air cooled engines. Air-cooled engines are really only partly cooled by air, the oil takes a huge heat load. It acts like anti-freeze in a water-cooled engine.

So in short, don't sweat the 220. You start seeing consistent temps above that, time for some more cooling capacity (either through air flow or through added oil cooling).

p.s. I don't know squat about VW engines - so check my facts. I'm talking trash from Porsche engine standpoint.

angela

as long as its not over 250, dont worry about it.if it runs that high all the time be shure to change it more often. bill

Angela offers good advice.

ALSO....more importantly.... Get a head temperature gauge. That's the one that REALLY matters, and gives a better indication of engine status and health.

Mike

Frank:

I know you wrote that all of the cooling tins are in place, but are the variable deflector vanes inside of the fan shroud there and are they connected to a (working) bellows thermostat? If the vanes are there, you should have the interconnect link (flat piece of metal about 16" long) running between the vane actuators on the back of the fan shroud, and you should be able to see the bellows thermostat underneath the heads on one side of the engine. All that stuff (bellows, vanes and interconnect link) slowly move as the engine warms up.

I'm with Angela, though - 220-225 isn't hot, even though I try to keep my current engine below 210. When I was racing a 1776 with stock cooling it would sit between 230-235 and sometimes, if it was really hot outside during the race, climb to 240. It never seized from heat.

thank you all for the great advice/education and putting my mind at ease. i ran up Palomar Mountain with the SoCal group last Saturday on a very hot day to 5500 feet and my oil temp gauge maxed out at 220....which is pretty good all things considered.....but i am cutting that hole in my firewall...

If your engine is starving for air make sure you do something to get more air available to the carbs and fan like you said you were going to try, but also if you are running to thick of a weight of oil it will bypass the cooler and run hotter until pressure comes down considerably. You may want to consider moving to a lighter weight oil and see what that does as well.

It was around 102 tuesday evening. A good 20 miles home in the bug. That little stock 1600+ 4 to 1 rockers did fine. It has a type 4 oil cooler and the heat outlets on the shroud removed and smoothed the inner vein diverted to the heads area inside the shroud.

It was perky all the way home average speed 64 or so with plenty of pep to pass..

The only other extra i want to add to near stock engines from now own is full flow oiling. it needs that when the oil thins out on those Hot Hot days. but for a no frills engine that pretty good last time i checked with the dip stick themometer around 215 on a hot day.

Bigger engines need the extra's and can give more trouble if not outfited well

Good synthetic(amsoil, red line) oils are a really good choice for for any kind of performance engine to combat heat. In that I mean synthetics handle the heat better, won't break down, and lubes the engine way better, better lubrication less heat. You can also extend change intervals.

Be very careful with full synthetic oils. Oil temps will drop but head temps will rise. A good synthetic blend is ok. There was a study / test when sythetics started becoming popular that found on air cooled engines that the oil temps were going down but head temps went up by double what the oil temp went down. The reason being is that synthetic oils do not absorb heat. In water cooled engine no big deal, air cooled engines BIG DEAL!

Jake Raby did a comparison study several years back, and nothing performed as well as Brad Penn in terms of lubrication, heat management, and durability. It was enough to get me to switch over.

thanks again to all about all of the info and education about oils between this thread and another thread a couple of weeks ago....put on a type 4 oil cooler and took the car to the beach last sunday morning.....temp got to about 180 at the beach and to 210 on the way home through the 'hot part' on interstate 15 through temecula etc. so made a bit of a difference....haven't cut any holes in the firewal as yet....currently using run of the mill 20-50 oil....am doing an 'all dayer' with the car on saturday to see how it does...thanks again !!

Sounds like you've made a vast improvement. It's now running as cool or cooler than a majority of other cars on here.

Good for you! Good work pays off!

As alway check the fan belt more in hot weather and carry a spare I matched my tire tools to double as a belt tool kit to save space by changing out the 15 mm for a 17 MM nut on the alt, One more trick Ive learned.

I have a leaf and thash catcher basket cover over the Fan shroud 1/4 mess. i check it often too .I still pick up a leaf every now and then But that is good insurance to keep stuff out of the fan shroud,, when your in the mountians in the fall one more little trick i like .

I made that standard equipment on all my vw cars. Ever get a mouse in the fan shroud It sounds like turo whineing Funny but not good for the fan or thr alternator bearings