Another Uneducated Newbie completely lost

@Theron has a nice one for sale.

Suspension mods/updates are an easy thing to do if you are looking for "better" handling.

Here you go
With IRS, adjustable front beam and lowered gas shocks.
https://www.speedsterowners.co...motosports-speedster

-=theron

It could also be down to incorrect tire pressures - a common problem since the front end is so light - or alignment not to spec.  My Beck was pretty heavily rear-biased (39% to 61%), with all that entails, but was fun to drive aggressively on a twisty road as long as I remembered "DON'T LIFT!"  On IMs you can even get a full 911 suspension if you want.  Just remember that even the original 356s didn't handle as well as new Porsches.

You can take a VW based car so far with handling mods (lowered, anti-sway bars, Konis or Bilsteins, decent tires and tweaking the alignment) but yeah, at the end of the day it's still basically a VW platform (which is what the older 356's were). Intermeccanica does a Speedster with a 911 front suspension, which I'm told is miles ahead of a car with the VW front beam. Remember, though, it will never be a modern car, and you'll either be happy with it or you won't. Go out, look at and drive a few and if you think you could be happy with something with 60 year old technology such as a Speedster, go for it. Note though, the VW based cars require almost constant maintenance (as most older cars do) and if at any time you're thinking you'd be just as happy with a late 911 convertible, maybe that's where you should be. 

Intermeccanica (based here in Vancouver, British Columbia, and no, I have no affiliation with them) does build a kick-ass 911 based Speedster replica (a couple members here own Henry's creations- maybe they'll add to the conversation- @Bob: IM S6 are you out there?) and is a trustworthy builder with great communication during the build process, so maybe give them a call?

Speedster owners are kind of a special breed (like old English sports car owners). You either get it or you don't. Hope this helps.

Yoda out (for now but back later you know I will be!)

Great Info-I do realize I won't get 911 handling but it was my point of reference I like the IRS idea. are there any meets coming up in Southern Cal in the foreseeable future? I would love to look at a few versions. I noticed there's a Dealer in San Diego called Beverly Hills (maybe they used to be in L.A?) that has 43 cars-surprised me. May have to take a drive down there to look at a number of examples. Has anyone dealt with them before? Man there is a lot to learn about this "simple" subject! Love this site.

You will find that Beverly Hills Motorcars has many, many speedsters listed for sale. Strangely, most are not actually in their show room or were sold a very long time ago.  If you call or visit, they will be glad to have a speedster custom built for you. It will come from one of the current manufacturers.
-=theron

Thanks for that Info-doesn't sound like what I want to deal with - just saved me a 2 hour drive each way-excellent. Your Silver car looks like a good deal-everything I would want but Silver isn't a paint color that has ever worked for me-One of the things I really liked about the Vintage was the beautiful Cream colored paint that went perfectly with the Beige interior. Maybe insignificant to most but the color was stunning and to me and looked more period correct, but that's just me. If I ordered a new car it would be the cream color and Beige interior. Not the only color I would accept on a used car but certainly a consideration. 

*LongFella posted:

Suspension mods/updates are an easy thing to do if you are looking for "better" handling.

I know we are fans of these cars, so it’s easy to get lost in the enthusiasm, but I’m going to respectfully disagree with the statement above.

There is nothing cheap or easy about modifying and updating the suspension of a car designed to a price-point in the 1930s to be anything other than mediocre. Modifications and updates can make it a better version of itself (much as the original 356 was basically just a modified VW Beetle), but the limitations are baked in the cake.  Bringing a replica up to anything even approaching modern standards of handling means making the car into something other than what it was to start with.

If a guy wants to do something more than cruise, some reasonably serious effort and money must be put into it. Even if it gets done, there’s only so far a guy can go with a beam suspension in the front. The limits are even lower with a swing axle in the rear.

Yes, an IM can be built with a 911 front end, making it a completely different animal (on par with what the OP would reasonably expect). Good luck getting one for less than $80,000. The Beck supercoupe will also have a modern suspension, and will also not be inexpensive.

Because we are fanboys, an IRS rear suspension, with an adjustable front beam, decent bushings, better shocks, and properly set up sway bars equate to “good handling”. I love driving my speedster quickly, but I’m fully aware (and enjoy the fact that) the limits are considerably lower than any sporting vehicle designed and built in the last 40 years.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Mark F posted:

Great Info-I do realize I won't get 911 handling but it was my point of reference I like the IRS idea. are there any meets coming up in Southern Cal in the foreseeable future? I would love to look at a few versions. I noticed there's a Dealer in San Diego called Beverly Hills (maybe they used to be in L.A?) that has 43 cars-surprised me. May have to take a drive down there to look at a number of examples. Has anyone dealt with them before? Man there is a lot to learn about this "simple" subject! Love this site.

I am also located in So Cal and so see all the cars advertised by Beverly Hills Motorcars.  If you do drive down to Oceanside, I would be curious to know if he/they have ANY of the cars they have advertised.

Thank You, I may have overstated my handling issue concerns. I was disappointed in the drive-not a lot but was a little surprised. I have no intention of racing this or pushing it on the Angeles Crest ( a wonderful mountain road next to my home) I have the 911's for that. This will be a weekend short cruise for lunch or dinner. Something the wife can drive  as she is terrified by the 911's (an early spin years ago spooked her)Maybe a run or two to the bar-this is about having fun and not being too serious about it. I'm a car guy and get carried away sometimes but luckily the wife knows how to reel me in. I love the constructive and educational posts. This really is a group that loves the "madness" as you call it. Maybe the Vintage is sufficient to our wants with some slight shock and tire adjustments. You guys have me thinking.  

Stan Galat posted:

*LongFella posted:

Suspension mods/updates are an easy thing to do if you are looking for "better" handling.

I know we are fans of these cars, so it’s easy to get lost in the enthusiasm, but I’m going to respectfully disagree with the statement above.

There is nothing cheap or easy about modifying and updating the suspension of a car designed to a price-point in the 1930s to be anything other than mediocre. Modifications and updates can make it a better version of itself (much as the original 356 was basically just a modified VW Beetle), but the limitations are baked in the cake.  Bringing a replica up to anything even approaching modern standards of handling means making the car into something other than what it was to start with.

If a guy wants to do something more than cruise, some reasonably serious effort and money must be put into it. Even if it gets done, there’s only so far a guy can go with a beam suspension in the front. The limits are even lower with a swing axle in the rear.

Yes, an IM can be built with a 911 front end, making it a completely different animal (on par with what the OP would reasonably expect). Good luck getting one for less than $80,000. The Beck supercoupe will also have a modern suspension, and will also not be inexpensive.

Because we are fanboys, an IRS rear suspension, with an adjustable front beam, decent bushings, better shocks, and properly set up sway bars equate to “good handling”. I love driving my speedster quickly, but I’m fully aware (and enjoy the fact that) the limits are considerably lower than any sporting vehicle designed and built in the last 40 years.

Forewarned is forearmed.

I still heart you Stan ;-)

Well, as ALB said above, if you want 911 handling, you need to think of Intermeccanica, and their 911 based builds.  I am on my third Intermeccanica Speedster, and this current one is all based on 911 mechanicals.  It does handle as well as a 1987 911 SC, as that is what the mechanical bits came from.  With a 1995 993 six cylinder engine, performance is more than adequate.  It certainly won't match a modern Porsche, but comes as close as you can in a 356 body.

The difference between my current IM, and my previous ones in terms of handling is night and day.  They were good, and better than most, but nothing like a 911 based machine.  I have pushed mine a few times, and always felt safe and secure, regardless of what pavement I was on.

If you buy the right lottery ticket, contact Intermeccanica and have them build you one, or look for a used one (rare as hen's teeth).  

As for working with a builder that is in another country or miles away, Henry at Intermeccanica makes it easy.  I figure I am about 2000 miles away from his shop, but the process was just fine.  You need to be patient, but he will build you exactly what you want.  If you have some 911 bits already, that might be a good start.

All the best in your quest...

Sounds like an amazing car. I'm starting to think I start with a car that's ready to drive at a reasonable price and use that as a baseline for what I want and don't want if I order a car in the future. If I get "hooked" ,and I think there's a likely hood I will, I'll spend the money to get what I want-after I figure out what the hell that is .

I think it's best to start with a good used Speedster, drive it for a year or two, get to know what you like and what you don't like, and then decide.  You may decide to stay with that car, and enjoy it for what it is.  They can be quirky cars, but usually - if it's a good one - a lot of fun, once you get used to the characteristics.  Funnily, I kind of miss the sound of a four cylinder VW based engine (but I must say I'm happy with the 993).

My first two Intermeccanicas were used builds, and I really enjoyed them. But when the chance came for me to get what I really wanted, I went for a 911 based one, and by then I knew pretty well exactly what I wanted.  

Well...there ya go , Mark.   Resistance is futile.

It would appear so-too funny-great forum

Mark - Lots of good info here.  I have a 1969 VW pan with IRS, along with front and rear sway bars and stiffer shocks.  The wheels are 16” X 7” Fuchs with 205 -50 tires and the engine is a 2,110cc at about 145hp.  It handles very well and better than most, except those pesky IM-6 cars, and significantly better than my local friends and their original 356 cars.  Basically, it’s a lot of fun.

That said, my son has a 2005 Porsche 996 that I have driven a few times and that is a whole different ball game.  I’ll sum up the difference in one word - Balance.  While my Speedster does what I ask of it in a nimble and responsive way, I have always felt more a part of the car in the 996 and more sure of what it is currently doing and about to do.  I have not driven the 996 any where close to its’ limits but it is an entirely sure-footed car.  I have driven my speedster close to its’ limits on some tracks and while I could always sense what was going on, you could tell that you were approaching a point of no return.   

So, if you are looking for an ice cream and dinner kind of top-down weekend car that your wife won’t need power steering in to feel confident, anything from a used/new VS to a Beck or IM will do.  I would always recommend an IRS rear or at least a rear camber compensator for a swing arm rear (the one you drove probably didn’t have a camber compensator) for safety and better handling, and at least a 1915 engine (more for you than your wife).

Keep looking and keep asking questions - There are no dumb questions here......

Mark F posted:

Sounds like an amazing car. I'm starting to think I start with a car that's ready to drive at a reasonable price and use that as a baseline for what I want and don't want if I order a car in the future. If I get "hooked" ,and I think there's a likely hood I will, I'll spend the money to get what I want-after I figure out what the hell that is .

That’s an excellent plan. Theron’s car would be ideal. 

Good shocks, disc brakes, IRS, 2110cc, beam braces, mid mount, front/rear stabilizers, Kafer bar = great handling and many smiles per miles. Add a 5-speed...

Remember, it's much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

Amen to that

@Mark F , 

I've had a swing axle VS for five years (virtually all VS's were swing axle) and have logged about 25K miles. Most of my drives are afternoon or weekend jaunts of around 100-200 miles.

I like most of the advice you're getting here - especially Stan's take on how these cars stack up against modern rides.

One thing you wrote caught my eye - your wife managed to spin one of your 911's. If that car scared her, a swing-axle replica will probably do worse. While no moderately-priced replica will handle near as well as a modern Porsche, the swing axle cars are the scariest. I've driven IRS replicas, and the difference is enormous. The IRS cars feel far more planted and predictable.

But some of us are just plain perverse. We realize how cantankerous the swing axle cars are, but like driving them anyhow. You just need to understand what the rules are before you light the fuse and make sure you don't push too hard. The cars are the opposite of forgiving.

So, if you want something that even approximates your current rides and if you want a car your wife can drive aggressively in safety, I think IRS is a minimum requirement for you. The fact that Theron's car has a 2110 cc motor is another big plus. With your P-car history, probably nothing less than that will seem up to the task.

Would buying a “generic” speedster replica with mendeola suspension address the issue at a lower cost than an Intermeccanica 6 ?

Z

Mark F posted:

Thanks for that Info-doesn't sound like what I want to deal with - just saved me a 2 hour drive each way-excellent. Your Silver car looks like a good deal-everything I would want but Silver isn't a paint color that has ever worked for me-One of the things I really liked about the Vintage was the beautiful Cream colored paint that went perfectly with the Beige interior. Maybe insignificant to most but the color was stunning and to me and looked more period correct, but that's just me. If I ordered a new car it would be the cream color and Beige interior. Not the only color I would accept on a used car but certainly a consideration. 

My Speedster was 1967 VW Sahara Beige.